jchabalk 

Hello there - i'm in the process of putting together a LHT. I have a good amount of experience (several years ago) with single speeds and this will be by first multi-gear build. I've spent the last several weeks reading and spec'ing out a few different options and i think i've got it narrowed down but i wanted to confirm a couple of things before moving forward with it.

1 - Drivetrain:

After reading a lot i've chosen mountain bike (Deore XT) hardware mostly. The gearing i'm looking for - and this isn't set in stone yet - is:

- Rear: Shimano XT 11/34T CS-M770 (9-speed)
- RD: Shimano XT SGS (Long Cage) RD-M772-SGS (NOT rapid-rise from what i can see)
- Front: Shimano Deore XT 26/36/48T FC-M771-K 175mm crankset
- FD: Shimano 105 FD-5603-B (triple)
- Brifters: Shimano 105 STI 9/10 speed

I seem to have found conflicting information that the STI shifters both will and won't work with the XT RD, so i'm wondering if anyone can confirm/deny this and i'm also interested in general feedback about the drive train.

Myself included i'll be carrying around 300# (maybe a little more on bad days) on the bike. I'm around 235 and i carry between 5 and 60# of cargo (60 at the extreme) and am looking for something that will be reliable and be able to get me up hills and more hills. I have a bike with a double right now and it just doesn't cut it. The wheel size is 700c, frame size will be either 58 or 60cm (i'm 6'3")

2- Brakes:

Bunch of choices here i know. All i know is that i won't be getting Avid Shorty's as i don't want to keep plowing through intersections at high-speeds. (yes, they've been setup and tuned and adjusted and then adjusted some more). I want to put a dual-stem configuration on the front and it looks like i'll be fine as long as i can find a long/low enough cable hanger for the steering tube.

Any suggestions or recommendations on brakes? As above, i'm big and heavy and ride hills. I really want BB7 discs, but none of the reasonable frames support them yet. I'm planning on using Shimano 105 brifters

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

cyccommute 

There is absolutely no issue with an XT rear derailer and STI. Mountain bike front derailers and STI are a different story.

I'd opt for a Tiagra front derailer over the 105, however. The Tiagra has more space between the plates and has thinner plates than the 105. This makes it more forgiving on gear choice. The 105 and Ultegra are bears to set up so that they don't rub in certain gears. This one of those cases where more expensive isn't necessarily better.

Avid Shorties and Kool Stop dual compound pads are a good combination. The Shorties always squealed on me until I replace the pads with these



Another good choice is IRD Cafams. Similar to Paul's. Jenson has a pretty good list. Although I hate to say it, the Shimano aren't half bad. Damn them

jchabalk 

that's great information about the FD, i have a 105 FD on my road bike (it's a double) and it is a pain to keep it happy and use most of my cassette.

Something that i've not been able to figure out is in regards to the 105 STI brifters. Are they capable of shifting a 9-speed cassette (or even an 8 speed)? I'm assuming that it would work the same way the 105 FD works with a double - just set the limit screws properly and be done with it.

Is there another shifter choice i should look at? I'm not fond of the bar end shifters (at all). I'm considering down-tube (used them before and kinda liked them). I want to put a front bag on a second stem. I think the 105s will work fine as long as they'll work with a 9-speed.

I don't want to go 10-speed if i can avoid it.

gregw

I am a similar size and also tour with a heavy load. The 2 things I think you should seriously consider are brakes and gearing. IMHO you should be running a 22/32/44 front chainring set and seriously not use cantilever brakes. Go with either discs that will work with traditional drop handlebar brifters or use another handlebar type that allows MTB levers and V-brakes. Cantilever brakes are at best OK for lighter riders, but your my size and I have to say they are inadequate and unsafe for folks like us on a heavily loaded touring bike.

gregw

Also, what frame size are you? Do you already own this frame or just considering a purchase?

sfswanson

i happen to like V-brakes with either the dia-comp 287v's or the new ones from tektro/cane creek
i am also in the 200# + range
you can't mount discs on a LHT no disc mounts
also i would just use a Deore FD as well specially with a sub 48 big ring
bar ends or down tube shifters
Steve

jchabalk 

gregw: i've been considering V-brakes. I have them on an old mountain bike and the stopping power is at least 10x better than the canti's. If i went with downtube shifters i could use a different lever and use V's. I could also get those brake cable devices made for this purpose although. bah. i can't find it - i was on the harris site earlier looking at them. A small elliptical cable take-up device to make up for the differences in cable pull.

edit: got it -> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/canti-direct.html
(The "travel agent" device is what i was speaking of)

V-brakes are something i'm continuing to look into, anybody have any experience (good or bad) using V's with brifters? If the LHT had disc tabs there'd be no question. The only frame i could find that seemed reasonable for me was a gunner rock tour and it's more than 3x the cost of the LHT. I spoke with surly and they said they weren't looking at putting disc tabs on the LHT anytime soon.

If i were to swap out the brifters to down-tube shifters what brake levels would you all suggest? I want drops as well as interrupters - this is what i was planning on doing with the brifters as well..

thanks again!

Erick L

Dia-compe 287V are made for drops and Vs. I believe they're the only option, save for travel agents.

tpelle

I have the bar end shifters on my LHT, and absolutely love 'em. My only other experience is with stem mounted shifters on my 35-year-old Ross, and ratcheting shifters on my Trek mountain bike. I am really not happy with the ratcheting shifters - it always seems like they are just not quite adjusted, and the drivetrain is always making little clicking sounds. With the bar-end shifters, when you hear a little clicking (usually from the front), you just reach down and give the lever a little "trim", and it goes away.

When I got the LHT and had about 200 miles on it, I started hearing a "scraping" noise coming from the BB area. Since it was time for a free tune-up, I took it in to the LBS. The tech found that the clamp holding the FD to the seat tube was not sufficiently tight, and the FD rotated around the tube so that the cage was scraping on the next bigger wheel. There was no problem shifting, though. Betcha can't do that with brifters.

For touring, I'd go for reliability. If it doesn't need adjusting, it can't get out of adjustment.

I'd for sure pick the downtube shifters over brifters every time, purely for reliability.

Gordon P

Last year I put Dia-compe 287V on my old Miyata 1000 and I found them so uncomfortable and was never able to set the bike up to a satisfactory comfort level. I will be switching them out tomorrow to the original Shimano Cantilevers and a pair of Tectro 200. Anyone interested in a new set of Dia-compe 287V with Shimano Deore V-brakes?

jchabalk 

Anyone have any experience with the Paul's Neo-Retro brake?

https://www.paulcomp.com/neoretro.html

They're expensive and quite wide but appear to have a much better mechanical advantage than regular canti's.

The options i can see in regards to a braking system right now are these:
+ 105 STI Brifters with interrupters and canti's
+ 105 STI Brifters with interrupters V's and Travel-Agents
+ Downtube Shifters, TeckPro drops, interrupters and V's

Or - i'm kinda stepping out on a limb with this one maybe but it popped into my head a few days ago and i've been kicking it around as i've been trying to get good braking with STIs.

The configuration could be 105 STI Brifters with V brakes and Pauls Interrupters (Cross levers). The cross levers have a hinged configuration for either Vs or Cantis depending on the type of brake on the bike. I'm going to email those guys about this potential configuration also and see what they say.

The link to the cross lever is here:
https://www.paulcomp.com/crosslever.html
<snip>
They come with the lever pivot pin in the hole closest to the handlebar. This location is for road calipers, center pull cantilever brakes, and road cable pull disk brakes. Moving the pivot pin to the outer hole location makes the levers compatible with v-brakes and mountain cable disk brakes.
</snip>

It's times like these where i wish i was 5'10" 135#

gregw

You didn't say what size frame you take. Unless I'm mistaken the largest size LHT are made with the same tube diameter and wall thickness as the smallest frames. If this is correct and your in 62cm frame, it could end up being a noodle for you. I looked at several bikes before selecting my Cannondale and that was a big concern for me.

I would not compromise on stopping power over shifting, but I would have a hard time giving up index shifting. Stopping is just plain safety and shifters are more personal preference.

jchabalk 

gregw: i'm trying to decide right now actually. I've ridden the 58cm LHT complete and it was a nice fit for me. My LBS just got a 60cm complete in that i'm going to take for a ride tomorrow. Pretty confident at this point it'll be either the 58 or 60cm frame.

Completely agree with you on the braking vs. shifting priorities. I've had some pretty dicey stops with my Avid Shortys and an unloaded bike in dry conditions, i don't know what would happen in the rain, but i'm pretty confident that when i did come to a stop it wouldn't be due to my brakes

Short of mechanical disks i think Vs are where i should go. i just want to find a configuration i'll be happy with. Like GordonP i've tried the Dia-Compe's before and didn't like their feel, outside of them i'm looking at either [brifters + travel-agents + V-brake], [brifters + paul's-cross-brake + V-brake], or [mountain handles + V-brakes && down-tube shifters]. I really want traditional drop-bars which makes the handle selection difficult.

Any other touring frame sets I should consider with mechanical disc tabs and 700c wheels? I'm kinda set on the LHT but the brake situation is the one thing that could change my mind at this point!

jchabalk 

gregw: meant to ask in the above post - which cannondale bike do you have? did you buy the complete bike? and do they sell frames/forks separate?

Erick L

Devinci makes a complete bike with disc brakes. You'd have to change the crankset.

Erick L

... and so does Marinoni (expect more $$$). I'm sure there are others.

jchabalk 

i found the raleigh sojourn which actually looks like a pretty good package. I don't know if raleigh sells frame sets - so far my looking indicates "no" - but that's not a bad bike. I'm not really interested in their built up bike for a bunch of different reasons but the frame fork combo would be interesting. I'll check with a couple of LBSs in the AM.

https://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/road/sojourn/

gregw

Mine is the T2000, I switched out the drop bars for what I call granny bars and mountain bike levers and shifters. I don't know if they sell just a bare frame.

Why not just have someone weld the disc brake tabs onto your frame? This would give you the best of both worlds, you get to keep your brifters and stop on a dime.

Another question, are interrupter brake levers compatible with a handlebar bag?

cyccommute 

If they are 10 speed now, you have to run a 10 speed cassette. IRD makes some wide range 10 speed cassettes but Shimano, in their infinite wisdom, does not. If the 105 is a 9 speed, you run a 9 speed cassette. You can't mix and match the shifters and the cassettes. The derailer doesn't care.

cyccommute 

I'd beg to differ. Cantilevers are just fine...if adjusted properly. I use them on two road bikes and have never had a problem with them, even with a loaded bike. Look at Harris Cyclery for tips on setting them up.

cyccommute 

You'd have to heat treat the frame after welding. It'd void your warranty also.

Interrupter levers can be used with handlebar bags but you'll have to angle them down to be out of the way. That's not a bad thing since most of the ones I see are mounted too flat anyway. They should be at the natural bend of your wrist.

jchabalk 

i'd thought about going down the road of brazing disc tabs on there are a few different reasons that i'm not going to go that direction. cyccommute hits most of them, i'm also not sure how the front fork of the LHT would react upon that type of stress. I wouldn't really have a problem with running a bolt-on axle, but i don't want to rip my fork in half or crack it during hard braking.

As far as the interrupters/handle-bar bag goes i was planning on going the route of a second stem and horizontal bar as some others have done and mounting the bag there. I'm pretty sure i can get the placement of the bag and interrupters to work properly.

continued thanks for all of the useful information!

gregw

I checked with a friend who is a Machinist about welding a steel bike frame and he confirmed what you said about heat treating. He said that heat treating is no big deal if you know exactly what the original temper and Rockwell was to begin with. And of course we don't know that so, no welding please. Thanks Cyccommute for the correction! Glad we have some smart folks on this forum.

I am sticking to the canti brake advise. My cannondale came with canti brakes, they really sucked when new, then I shortened the yoke and changed out to koolstop pads and they did improve. When I switched to shimano parallel push V-brakes I could not believe the difference, it's night and day. I was going to save the canti's that I took off to maybe use on a beater, but once I tried the V-brakes I threw the canti's in the garbage. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

Halthane

I have the new tektro CR720 https://www.tektro.com/02products/11qb.php and they are most exceptional once I switched to kool-stop pads. Really easy to set up, very stiff and stop on a dime. Also very inexpensive.

jchabalk 

very interesting.. i stumbled upon the pauls components site a few days ago. those brakes look like their neo-retro brake but at what i'd assume is about 1/10th the cost. A big part of making decisions around some of these choices is the financial penalty for making a wrong decision and $12USD per wheel is definitely much more appealing than $112USD per wheel.

i've been spending a lot of time looking for frames with a touring geometry and touring options (braze-ons for racks etc) and disc tabs and am just not having really great luck. It looks like the mainstream manufacturers are flirting with the idea right now and the more specialized (not the company ) makers are there. I guess this is always the way it is - and not just with bikes.

In 3 years or so it'll probably be impossible to buy a new frame/fork without disc tabs and people will be talking about grinding them off and brazing on what will be called "traditional" brake bosses to use cantis and v's.

gotta love it