rodar y rodar

Heel clearance? Little difference in handling between high and low back there? I`m just wondering.

LWaB

The panniers have to sit further back to clear your heels, so more likely to 'wag the dog'.

northboundtrain

Unless the right rack/pannier was designed to stand off (outboard) the bike an inch or two, it would interfere with the rear derailleur.

That and I would guess that lowering the load up front has a more significant impact on handling than it would in the rear.

Nevertheless, I always try to pack dense/heavy items in the bottom.

rodar y rodar

Ah, yes- the derailer. I betcha that`s the main reason.

diesel_dad

Some racks, like my Tubus Locc, do have two sets of rails and allow you to mount the panniers on the lower rail, lowering the centre of gravity and leaving the top of the rack free for other stuff.

Here is a photo of the rack. I use it with an Abus Granit X-Plus 54 lock and Ortlieb Backroller Plus.

LWaB

Some French cyclo-touring bikes were set up with rear low-riders.

TheBrick

rear low riders https://www.velo-orange.com/niccarera.html

twodeadpoets

I have both the Tubus Logo (similar to diesel dad's Locc) rear rack and Tubus Tara front rack, both carry loads low which makes loaded touring more stable (IMHO). I've not had any problems with heal clearance either.

LWaB

See how far the panniers' centre of gravity is behind the rear axle?

The Tubus racks aren't anything like as low the French racks (of which the Nitto is a copy).

wahoonc

Bicycling Magazine (at least IIRC it was them) did a coasting downhill study back in the mid 80's. They tried all the different combinations. The most stable was 60% of the weight on low riders on the front 40% of the weight on the rear in panniers mounted on the top rail of the rack. And watch the weight in the handle bar bag. If you place the weight down low in the rear you have to shove it too far back and it greatly affects handling ie; tail wagging. Also the rear wheel is already carrying the greater share of the weight on an unladen bike, adding more weight to the rear just ups the chance of wheel failure.

Aaron

skookum

There was a good article on French camping bikes in one of the old Rivendell readers-not online, with pictures of a bike with integral low riders front and rear. The author claimed he loaded the bike up with some impossible load and found the bike to be super stable loaded but not great unloaded.

I looked for a picture of one but I couldn't find one.

cyccommute 

The Japanese tour with rear low riders. However, the 'tail wagging the dog' that LWaB referred to can be a problem. Ages ago (80's) Bicycling Magazine did tests on positioning of bags on a bike. This was when Blackburn first introduced their lowriders. They found that the best handling configuration was lowrider front with 60% of the weight and rear bags mounted high. The worst handling was lowrider front and rear.

I need to find that article

TheBrick

like this guy? https://www.pbase.com/canyonlands/image/72111886 the rear panniers look smaller than most rear pannier to be fair but a lot of stuff in other places.

rodar y rodar

Now THAT`s a loaded bike! Complete with a 2 gallon water bottle on the DT.

Anyway, I`m going to put together a new rear rack soon and was thinking about lowriders. At least I have a better idea of what factors I have to consider and probably keep the rail above the wheel anyway.

DukeArcher 

I've tried fashioning together some rear lowriders on my Trek 520, and found the weight distribution quite nice, but I never got around to using them on an extended tour. Lots of Japanese tourers seem to have those lowrider Nitto racks though.

IceNine

To what extent would the optimum load placement be affected by:
1) Rider weight
2) Bike geometry, esp amount of trail and chainstay length
3) how upright the riding position

Chiricocycle

I wondered about this too, especially after finding out that the study done by Jim Blackburn and friends wasn't really much of a study. They poodled around the neighborhood on a very limited number of bikes and setups.

So I tried it myself, and have since done most of my touring with rear lowriders.

Handling has been better than any of the other systems I have tried -- the most stable and easiest to handle, whether riding or pushing the bike. It is great having most of the weight low to the ground; it has made a real and noticeable difference.

(Overall stability seems to depend to a large extent on additional factors (not just high-low) , usually not mentioned in this context -- the exact details of the weight and distribution; the materials and diameters used for the racks, as well as their design; their stability or flexiness; the mounting systems and attachment points; stability of panniers and loads; the tubing diameter and other details of bike construction: frame material, size and flex; chainstay length and flex...; rider weight and postion; and so on -- there is a long list of factors that can come into play.)

It would be interesting to get some feedback from Nitto or others in Japan who might know of the studies or thinking in support of their approach, and also from the French and others who use or make similar systems.

There used to be a French touring cyclists' website with forum; if it's still around, they might be able to add something.

Maybe Daisuke Nakanishi (whose bike is pictured above) would be able to answer it. On his website (https://www.daisukebike.be/) he mentions that quality Japanese touring gear is, in his view at least, extremely well made, the best in the world. It would be interesting to hear what he has to say.

Nitto might also respond to inquiries about this.

If anyone finds out more, please let us know.