Btflmutant

I'm in the market for a new touring bike (some fully loaded touring, mostly commuting) and wondering which brakes are better. I've used cantilevers but see that some high end touring rigs (Co-Motion) use V brakes. Any thoughts?

staehpj1

Since I like to use STI levers I prefer cantis. I have not found them to be lacking in any way.

cyccommute 

Same here. My one try at using Travel Agents was such a disaster that I don't want to repeat it.

Abneycat

I'm not sure if one or the other is really just plainly better.

High grade v-brakes with compressionless housing, mmm. Good, smooth modulation. Powerful.

Cantilevers have superior rim clearance though, and as the above posters have pointed out, they're nicer to use with STI since you don't need any extra converters.

paxtonm

I know C0-Motion favors V-brakes. I like cantis. They're less likely to encounter interference from racks and offer good clearance, great feel and more than adequate stopping ability. Ulike some others, I find modern cantis to be a breeze to set up and maintain. Fewer fiddly bits = a good thing.

By the way, you can spec whatever you want, if you are sold on Co-Motion.

fuzz2050

Says who? I like lots of little fiddly bits!

Not only for fiddling with, of course, but I can never object to putting more control at the hands of the end user. Older style cantilevers with an adjustable straddle cable allow the owner of the bike to adjust all sorts of things exactly to their liking. Now most people will never do that, I've only found reason once or twice, but it's nice to know I can. V-brakes, and most modern cantilevers come as a package that allows for basic adjustment only, so heaven help you if you need the straddle cable to be half an inch higher to clear your fenders.

NoReg

The main V versus canti issues is which is better with road levers. If you are using straight bars and levers, then the market has certainly blessed the V brake. The two downsides I have heard with Vs is that if you end up with a rim wobble it is harder to accommodate, and if you end up with an adjustment to make on the road it is more picky. That aside the market prefers V brakes.

If you are using drop bars and road levers, then the cable uptake is such you need to run either cantis, something else, or V with travel agents and special V levers. These I have the 287V levers, in "stock" but I haven't tried them yet. The way they deal with the need to take up more cable is the locate the pivot point lower. This reduces the mechanical advantage which is OK because the Vs are better that way, so the overall effect is no worse than cantis. What I didn't like was this lower pivot means it is harder to operate the lever from the hoods, my preferred position. There is at least one other option out now in addition to the 287V, but the basic physics should mean the pivot on them is low also.

So overall the adjustment, lack of any improved stopping power, wheel true, and lever issues gang up to the point where while I still want to try the Vs out on a drops touring bike, I don't much see the point.

Cantis are as good as ever cheap simple work fine with the drops levers, however, they too prefer a little more cable pull, and setting them is not quite as easy as it was when they ruled on MTBs. There are also heel strike issues, frame width issues (you need a wide fork for the neo retro style), pannier interference issues. Once you get them set-up, they are pretty foolproof though. One good guideline is to look at what kind of canti your frame supplier uses. Either use the identical set-up, or one with identical geometry. Don't be swayed by what some big name user put on their frame. There are lots of little pitfalls where the 16 dollar brakes the OEM supplied can work better than 200 dollar upgrades, ask me how I know.

In the "other" category there are disc brakes, work fine, or at least the applicable cable ones work fine with road levers. They are very heavy and there can be pannier rack issues. damage issues on the discs, and replacement parts issues. Still a good option in braking power.

My current squeeze are pedersen brakes. I used to use them back in the 80s on an MTB that got stolen. I rediscovered them recently. and I have several pairs squirrels away for touring use. They come in a number of configurations, but the ones I prefer are basically cantis. That have extra stopping power, to the extent that when they were sold to Shimano they were eventually only sold as rear brakes. But I have never seen a problem, myself. I use them with standard blocks, I don't use the Cool Stops. I think there may be some risk that the better blocks are too grippy for this style of brake, and an added advantage is that it is easier to find the regular ones of the beaten track.

Speedo

I have one bike with V-brakes and Dia-Compe 287-V levers, and a touring bike with cantilevers. I have an old mountain bike with cantilevers. I prefer the cantilevers. I just find them easier to deal with.

Speedo

seeker333

Co-Motion is actually moving to disc brakes now - they've been trying to unload their surplus arai-compatible hubs on ebay for a while now,

V brakes generally have more leverage (power) than cantis, better modulation and are easier to adjust, with a minor weight savings. It is for these reasons that Vs rapidly displaced cantis on mtbs back in the mid-1990s.

Cantis have more fender clearance - although some Vs have adequate clearance too. Velo Orange has some pretty nice cantis at fair price.

https://www.velo-orange.com/grcrucabr.html

Vs and cantis basically have the same number of parts.

As others have pointed out, choose canti if you're going to use sti levers. Otherwise you can go either way - get new long-pull levers for Vs, or std (short) pull levers for cantis. Cost is about the same, although good cantis actually cost more than good Vs.

Avid SD 5-7 series brakes are widely regarded as an outstanding value in brakes. You can get 2 sets for $50 shipped from bens cycles on ebay.

https://cgi.ebay.com/AVID-Single-Digi...mZ120378336138

As far as bikes/frames go, I suggest you look at the lowly surly lht. It's not pretty or fancy, and it's made from the cheapest 4130 gbp could source - but the design is pretty good, and they're constructed reasonably well. It's a good value. Many steel bikes are made from "generic" 4130, nothing new - not bad, basically a weight penalty, which is not so critical/sales deterrent on a tourer. Pull out the rear end a bit and fit a 145mm respaced XT hub on a 186mm axle, and you got yourself a cheap, touring-duty rear wheel.

I vote Vs - but there's more to the decison than just the brakes. Good luck.

Wanderer

And, to think that I always thought V-brakes were straight pull cantilevers!

Nigeyy

I love v-brakes -great design, easy to setup.... but I prefer cantis. I've always found that no matter what lever setting I use or brake pad i fit, I've always found cantis give better modulation. V-brakes seem to be too digital on the braking.

One downside to cantis: the early brakes really were a pain to setup, though the newer cantis now use the v-brake style pads which makes things much easier. But either brake style if it's good quality and well setup should be more than sufficient though.

surreal

of course, you're right. but, the vernacular has shifted, and from here on out, when ya read "cantilever" or the diminutive "canti", the typist is referring to centerpull cantilever brakes. When you see the shimano trademarked term "v-brake", it refers to the sidepull linear cantilever, of virtually any manufacturer.

V-brakes are better brakes; they stop better. Canti's are better for touring, they work with shortpull levers, and they clear fenders better.

hth.
-rob

Btflmutant

Wow, thanks for all the replies! That helped clear up some questions. Still have to figure out which bike to get.

positron

Disks

cyberpep

DISKS for sure!
If I had the money I would change the front fork on my Cannondale T2000 and put on a fork that will handle disk brakes. I now have canti's and am tired of trying to get decent braking performance out of them not to mention the front brake fork shimmy problem. I have seen some touring bikes built with disk brakes as stock. I know people who tour on a GIANT OCR and a KONA that came with disk brakes.
Happy touring!

surreal

many ppl like discs for their all-weather capability and for their arguaby stronger stopping power. Truth be told, cable-ac discs are very similar to well-tuned v-brakes in stopping power. Hydros are awesome, but the levers are designed for flat bars and the like, which is not actually a bad thing-- unless you intend to run drop bars.

Discs present some hassles on tour bikes in terms of mounting other hardware--eg, fenders, racks-- where the disc caliper's mount meets the eyelets. There is hardware to prevent this, and some manufacturers put the rear disc mount between the seat and chainstays to prevent interference. Either way, i personally wouldn't put disc brakes on a bike that's designed for touring or for primarily road use. I even sold my disc-specific singlespeed mtb to build one for v-brakes, but that had more to do with chain tension than anything else. Still, i don't miss all the squeaking and having to re-true the rotors frequently. The things heat up under load, and will warp. This isn't a design flaw; it's just something that discs'll have to do. Rim brakes have their drawbacks, too. But, rim brakes are what ppl have been touring with for ages now.

-rob

rodar y rodar

What, no votes for rod activated calipers? Nobody for coaster brakes or drums?

surreal

i wish drums were more widely available. I'd like to experiment with em. the dutch ppl love them; i knew a guy with a bike he'd brought from amsterdam with drums. Worked pretty good, in all weather, apparently.

rob

HardyWeinberg

Mini-Vs are supposed to work with less cable pull and skinny road wheels, but they are heinously finicky w/ regard to rim wobble. Regular Vs in my experience are no more sensitive to rim wobble than regular cantilevers.