Advice about Parents
 

Hello, I have been hoping to experience a bicycle adventure this summer, about 800 miles total. Unfortunately my mother will not even think about it long enough to consider saying anything but NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. She is too worried that I am going to get hit by a car, or murdered at a campsite. Her reasoning is ridiculous, I understand why she would be worried, however I also realize that I am more likely to get hit by a car where I live. I am constantly being passed by cars here in SE Wisconsin, the trip I had planned to Northern Wisconsin would involve periods of probably a half hour where I may only see one car. Any suggestions to sway her decision would be very helpful, I cannot think of anything else that may coax her into letting me go. I will be 18 years of age by the time the trip would come around, however if I just left for the trip, that would create hostility amongst my family. Thanks! -Dave

My mom and my girlfriend were both freaking out when I was planning my first tour across the US. All I can say after doing it is that it is totally safe. Safer than riding around in your neighborhood etc., because you will be in the middle of freaking nowhere half the time away from cars.

Tell her you want to do this event ... it's almost 800 miles, and you'd be riding with people for some of it. :D

http://www.rmccrides.com/lastchance.htm


Some questions:

1. Do you go for bicycle rides every day now?
2. Where do you go?
3. Is it always the same route or distance, or do you do a bit of exploring out there?
4. Is your mother OK with you cycling locally?

5. Have you done a weekend camping trip yet where you cycle out to a local campground, stay overnight and cycle back?
6. If not, when is your weekend camping trip planned?
7. Is your mother OK with that weekend camping trip?

If you've answered "Yes" to questions 4 and 7, talk to your mother and tell her something like this:

She is all right with you cycling in YOUR local neighborhood. 400 miles up the road is another mother who is OK with her son/daughter riding in THEIR local neighborhood. How do you think that mother would feel if your mother informed her that her neighborhood wasn't safe for you?

A lot of people feel perfectly comfortable in their own neighborhoods. But everyone's neighborhood is someone else's foreign country or foreign area ...... and everyone's foreign country or foreign area is someone else's neighborhood.

i went on a weekend tour, 2 nights, last summer. my parents didn't know it was overnight, so i got in some trouble when i came home.

There are obviously some advantages to having a dysfunctional family. The idea that my parents, circa-1979, would tell me I couldn't do something at age 17/18 is unthinkable. It makes me laugh just thinking of the scene in which they would try. Upside: freedom to tour whenever; Downside: yeah I guess there have been downsides, but then there's the avoidance of this whole "No!" thing.

In my case, my father would likely have wanted to come along. In fact, when I was 17, he did a 3-day 300km tour in the mountains ...... my whole family was along - we hiked and did short rides on the first 2 days, and then I joined him on the last day.

Mom is supposed to be overly protective. That's in the job description. Some tips to try to reduce her concerns:

- Plan plan plan. Have your route picked, with overnight and food stops selected.
- Have emergency plans for unrepairable breakdowns, injury, illness.
- Have a cell phone and a way to keep it charged
- Think about every worry your mom will come up with, and have some plan to address.
- If you could have "safe houses" along the way - friends or family, that could alleviate fears

Have all this done before bringing it up again. You may be almost 18, but in her eyes you're still 8. You've got to impress her with your planning/preparation.

Or you could just go, and deal with the consequences later. But really, if this is your first long solo tour, overplanning is not a bad idea anyway.

My parents had the same response back in 1973 when I was planning a ride with 3 buddies around Lake Michigan. My plan then - which eventually worked - was to not argue, but just keep saying how much I was looking forward to the trip, & kept all the planning with my friends out in the open. I think eventually they (Mother especially) caught on that I was going to go with or without their blessing, & they became reluctantly supportive (Mom even finished sewing my Frostline Kit panniers - which will mean nothing to you, O.P., but does to us Tourers Of A Certain Age.) Funny thing was, if the parents really HAD demanded at the end that I not go, I probably would have caved, not wanting to risk the same sort of estrangement that you fear.

I'd try to remember: the reason your mother is opposed is not just to piss you off, but because she loves you & cares for your safety. In the course of your discussions with her (as per the above posts), it may help for you to verbally acknowledge this to her.

And whatever happens, you need to remember this episode when your college-age daughter tells you she's going to Sweden for the summer to chill with her boyfriend - although it's not really making me feel better.... :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Machka;8832294]

Some questions:

1. Do you go for bicycle rides every day now?
2. Where do you go?
3. Is it always the same route or distance, or do you do a bit of exploring out there?
4. Is your mother OK with you cycling locally?

5. Have you done a weekend camping trip yet where you cycle out to a local campground, stay overnight and cycle back?
6. If not, when is your weekend camping trip planned?
7. Is your mother OK with that weekend camping trip?

1) I do not ride everyday right now, because I have school and work. I am done with school at the beginning of June and had the trip planned for the middle of July, so I would have plenty of time to ride centuries back to back days, and that sort of extreme training.

2) I ride all over the place, county roads, city routes...just about anywhere that seems enjoyable to ride in SE Wisconsin.

3) I have like 5 routes that I ride pretty often, they vary in length and destination, some are lakefront rides, some are county roads. There is plenty of exploring that I do, I have done plenty of rides to Milwaukee, and Kettle Moraine (a state park) about 50 miles away.

4) She always is a bit nervous about me getting hit by a car, because last summer 7 cyclists were hit by cars ( 1 survived). Other than being nervous about me getting hit by a car or shot by a thug or something she is fine with it. She is happy that I have found a hobby outdoors and great to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

5/6/7) No, I have not done a weekend camping trip. I had planned to do a weekend or maybe 3 day trip at the end of May. My mom still does not even want me to do a weekend trip, her original reasons were because she was worried about me getting hit by a car or some creep who could be sneaking around campsites and beating people to a pulp. ( Better imagination than I have)

Thank you very much Machka for the huge response, I like that analogy about another childs mother/ neighborhood. I will try to bounce that off of her and get a posotive response, but first I might wait for some other responses. Your suggestion for that ride is great, one of the other things that would sway her decision would be if I was with somebody else. Finding somebody else (hopefully a similar age) who is willing to go for a 1.5 week long bke trip is difficult. The specific ride you reccommended would be difficult for me, this trip would be funded only by what I have earned at work, so an expensive plane ticket would not work for me. The longest trip in WI that I found is about 500 miles.

Logic seldom works against emotion.

Taking time off to clear one's head, get centered, sow oats, etc., between phases of life is a time honored tradition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gap_year

I would get your mom talking about the phases of her life and what she wished she had done if she had the opportunity when she was younger. Tell her that your ambition is to volunteer for a year of clearing minefields in Zaire just as soon as the ebola epidemic eases up. If your delivery and timing is good she will be begging you to ride your bike instead.

Just kidding about the Africa part. Seriously, you're SOL until you turn 18. After that you're going to have to redefine your relationship with your mom. Good luck with that.

WOW! Thanks for all these tips guys! Do any of you have good suggestions for planning a route? Should I try to buy some mapping software or something to find steets that are less busy? Do most of you ride with the standard old paper map? How do you guys keep your phone charged during tours? Thanks Again!

I like the minefields idea!!! As another poster pointed out, whether I am 18 or not she still views me as her little Davy-8 years old. I will be 18 in 5 days, unfortunately I think if I attempt to change our relationship into more of a "I am going to do what I want" relationship, it will be viewed as disrespect toward the whole family. If I do too many things that could be viewed as disrespectful, at a certain point my parents are going to say, ohh and by the way, your bed is in the backyard, take a shower and then leave!

Reasonable concern (the car thing). I'd consider getting her involved in the route planning - the Wisc. Dept of Transportation (or Dept of Tourism?) likely has a map/guide to preferred cycling routes - you could look for it online yourself, but get her invested in your trip by "helping" you look. And/or, contact bike clubs of whatever mid-large size cities you'll pass nearby & ask for route hints. If Mom feels she has some control (i.e., safe route planning), things will go smoother.

Acknowledge her concern about Bad Guys - although, of course, most thugs live in cities, not remote campsites - and agree to sleep in State Parks or Private Campgrounds, rather than rustic forest areas or "stealth camping". I HATE staying at state parks in a tent - but you're negotiating here ("You give me your blessing & happily see me off, I'll follow your recommendations about safety issues.") For next year's trip you can stay wherever you want.

OK, first things first ... you do need to make concrete plans. My ex-husband's family was great for coming up with wonderful pie-in-the-sky ideas, but when it came down to making concrete plans and carrying them out ... it didn't happen. It got so that every time one of them would tell me that he/she was going to the Bahamas or Scotland or wherever the next summer, I'd just smile and walk away. I knew it wasn't going to happen ... and it didn't.

As downtube42 says, you've got to prepare a well-thought-out, detailed plan ... and a managable plan, one that's not too extreme or unbelievable.

As for planning, I'm a paper map person ... I find the online mapping software to be difficult to use, inaccurate, and not detailed enough ... although I will sometimes use it to map the route I've decided on, using paper maps, to determine distances. I find it is very hard to determine what is a gravel road, or a paved road, or whatever on an online map ... and I haven't seen anything yet with campgrounds and stuff like that. Who knows, there could be something more advanced than what I've used, but I find the paper maps work just fine for me.

I believe you can get paper maps at your local American Automobile Association, and at tourist information centres.

And as for cell phones ... they don't need charging when they are off. I keep mine off until I want to make a phone call, and in your situation, that would happen once, maybe twice a day for brief calls home.

I had already planned to camp mostly in rec areas or state parks, however a night or two of stealth camping may occur anyway when i am out in the boonies. The bike route idea is good, I might try to find all the bike routes for every city I will go through.

If I am an AAA member can I just walk in and get some maps? Do these maps generally have campgrounds on them? You are correct, with the phone off i would not have any problems.

When I graduated high school, I was 3 months short of my 18th birthday. During an argument with my father, he told me that "it was his way or the highway". I moved out that night and never spent another under his roof again. I put myself through college, graduate school, law school; had a stellar business career, became rich and famous, and ended up a bicycle-touring curmudgeon.

Now that's the bulldozer approach to parent management. I was far more lucky than smart, so I wouldn't recommend it to you. But you need to successfully manage your transition from child to adult family member. And that is more important than any dumb bike ride.

It's your life, follow your dreams... :)

We all have different values. Being a family member is not on my list.
This may sound strange to a lot of people as "family" is the most important thing in very many people's lives.
FWIW 30 years ago I chose to leave my (conventional and loving) family behind to hit the road (started hitch-hiking which later turned into bike riding), and I feel my life has been rich and rewarding, full of love and friendship in relationships other than "family".
I have no bitterness or hard feelings towards my "old family", and my choice not to "start a family" is not caused by bad experiences (just in case someone felt like diagnosing me ;)

So maybe my next dumb bike ride is the most important thing in my life, and I am confident that those who love me would wish for nothing else than that I follow my dreams and adventures...

The advice from others about planning may work for you, but you don't have to plan anything! A bike, a minimum of camping equipment and some money and you can just take off on your bike, the rest you will learn or work out on the way. You don't even have to know which way you're going! Get to a fork in the road, you go left or right... follow your heart...

I have a suspicion that a lot of older people become reliant on planning for a sense of security, when maybe, when they were "18", they just left home and hit the road...

Along with what Machka said, go on a short weekend tour, maybe 100 miles or so. Then you can come home and say "I told you so", and maybe Mom will be less anxious.

That said, you'll be 18. There comes a time in every man's (or woman's) life...

After a second discussion with my mom...involving tons of the things you guys reccommended bringing up, she still will not even consider a weekend trip. I "threatened" that whether she says yes or no I might just be gone at some point, and come back a few days later. She then informed me that if I do that I better find a new home too.

I like what one of the posters wrote up there about their father saying no, so they left and never looked back. I wish I could do that, but my parents raised me to be just like them, but now when I am trying to break free of their lifestyle, I have too many other things I still need them for. I have only had a job for about a year, so I am not financially stable enough to leave and find my own home.

imi- I really like your style, just leave and then wander basically, my parents have instilled too much structure in my life that I don't think I would be capable of that mentally. I could just ride north though, that would be fine with me.

To the poster who spoke of leaving when your father said "no", what happened after that? Where did you live? How did you afford all of that schooling?

Now I am so lost in emotion that I do not know what to do. I still really want to begin long distance touring, but I do not want to split my family up. Even though my brother and parents really piss me off sometimes, I still love them.

You said ...

So ... just start riding as often as possible. Ride long distances on weekends here, there and everywhere. Get your family used to the idea of you being out doing long rides.

Involve them in your cycling ..... invite them to meet you at that park 50 miles away ... they can drive there (or cycle with you) and you all can have a picnic together there, and then you can cycle back home. Invite them to camp with you out there ... again you can ride out there, and they can meet you, and the next day you can cycle back home.

Really show them that cycling is something you're serious about ... and something you'd like to include them in if possible.

And don't bring up any plans of a long tour to your mother again until you've got a detailed plan. You need concrete evidence that cycling is important to you, and you need that detailed plan. If you want your mother to get on board, you need to show that you aren't just "hot air", and you need to show that you are a mature responsible adult who has looked at and considered the whole situation.

That sounds like a great plan! :D

IMO migrating birds have the right attitude... fly north in the spring, south in the fall...
...no maps, GPS, google earth... ('though I'm sure they have a BF (Bird Forum) to help them on they're way! ;)

RedRider2009, I think you will find lots of great information about touring on this forum, but the issues you are talking about really are probably not about touring, they are about your transition into adulthood and how you and your family are handling it. If you weren't having this issue with your family around bike touring, you would be having it around something else - going to college, a job or a girlfriend, whatever. Don't be surprised if your mom won't listen to "reason" because whatever it is you are talking about on the surface, the real conflict is around you becoming and adult and your family learning a new way to relate.

That said, www.AdventureCycling.org produces maps for touring cyclists, which are very useful, and the offer self-supported and car-supported tours. But, maybe even better, they offer a course on learning to tour. And, there's one near you, next month.

http://www.adventurecycling.org/tour...=144&t=EDU&p=2

I see it has a wait list right now, but you could CALL (not email) and see how many people are on it, and what your chance of getting in is. Perhaps you could take the class? You would learn a lot, your parents would be reassured that you knew exacly what you are getting in to, and it's a little touring too. It's not very expensive.

Also, check out the map section, they have some roads mapped out near you:
http://www.adventurecycling.org/routes/northlakes.cfm

Good luck with all that. Family is really important, please don't do something that cuts you off from them. If you can't tour this year, you have many years ahead of you to do it.

Peace.

I'm guessing the person in question got a job.

And if you want any freedom at all from your parents ... that should be a priority. Get a job and save up some money.

I hope that in these pleas to go on a tour you are not asking your parents to fund: a) the tour; and b) your schooling next fall. If I had a kid who wanted me to pay for everything while he/she went off and had fun, I'd be saying "no" too.

I just finished a 4-year degree. My parents were nice enough to give me a roof over my head for most of that time, but I worked my butt off to pay for everything else ... part-time jobs during the school year, and usually 2 jobs adding up to about 60 hours a week during the summers.

Getting a job and paying for some/all of your own expenses would be another way to show you're a mature adult.

Separation from parents into adulthood is a highly charged emotional event in many families. Parents model behavior and expect children to follow the example even if it does not fit the particular child because that is all that many parents know to do. Parents often do not want to give up their role as parent because they do not have anything to fill that gap. Is there an uncle or other respected relative or minister or teacher or boss who can intervene on your side?

Long ago in the Stone Age I faced a similar choice. My parents objected to a cross country driving trip from California to Chicago. I just left and found support from grandparents and an uncle and aunt. It was a difficult but valuable learning experience in balancing my thoughts, plans and needs with those of my parents. I learned to see my parents as people with their own fears and hopes for their children. It was a watershed event that only destroyed the old parent-child relationship and replaced it gradually with a more adult one. It helped me learn to rely on my own judgement in decisions.

Are there any alternative ways to get what you want while satisfying and neutralizing your mother's fear? Such as a group ride in a similar direction sponsored by a bike club, a scouting organization,
a church group? You would not have complete freedom but it could be a starting point leading to future adventures on your own. You are in a tough spot but you are acting with more adult flexibility than your parents at this point. Keep searching for an answer.

listen, i'm 38 years old and my Mom has the exact same response. like, she actually says "NO." I've toured Greece, France, and, as a camp counselor during college, actually lead bike trips in the san juan islands, but she STILL freaks out. i'm going to do the pacific coast next month and she's apoplectic.
its just how mom's are. and if she's anything like my mom, and it sounds like she is, she'll probably be like this forever. ha!
i agree with the advice above about planning it very much out in the open and sharing every detail. maybe she can drive up and meet you like half way or something, just make make sure everything is cool.
good luck, i know you're going to have a great trip!