Cyclesafe

But the issue really isn't the $7-10. The issue is whether the one asking should offer to share the cost. And giving four different people in a row the chance to be polite isn't unreasonable. Finally, when the site is large enough, sharing is really no different than having them set up in the site next to you.

[QUOTE=CCrew;9713167]I'll agree that it's rude, and personally I'd offer. But that said, were you not sharing the site would you be whining that you paid the $ for a site that could handle more than one person?
QUOTE]

No.

Conditioning the request, even implicitly, completely changes the original premise.

danarnold

It must be an Icefields Parkway thing or a bicycle thing because, although I do a lot of camping, I've never had anyone ask to share my campsite. Never. Maybe it's the way I look, or the fact that 90% of my camping is via motorcycle and usually not in designated camp sites. So... nevermind.

When I camp, I do so to be alone or just to be with the people I go camping with, so if asked, I'd say 'no,' unless I wanted the company. If I wanted the company, the money wouldn't matter. If you think you're going to resent them not offering to share the cost, you can say 'no.'

BTW, camping in Canada sucks, and it shouldn't since there are so many great places you'd like to camp. But they make it difficult to camp anywhere but designated, expensive campsites where you're cheek to jowl with other campers.

OTOH, boating in BC is glorious, and the anchoring and island camping free.

valygrl

stevage, the campgrounds fill up on the Icefields Parkway, so sometimes people have no other way to camp than to ask to share. I've stayed at Lake Louise about 4 nights total. Of ALL of those, I was in a shared site - never had our own.

Bekologist

the last 'parasite' i got leeched onto was at a hiker-biker site in a state park; he was going to pay once he got set up, but once he was entrenched his wallet "whoops, had no money" in it.

the leeches live. i'm usually am camping in the bush so rarely see much of developed campsite antics..

vik 

I've been on the parkway a number of times for touring and day rides. When I've been touring the other bike tourists I've met in campgrounds have been super nice. I'm not sure what makes a bike tourist "real" or not?...the cost of his bike, the gear he is using, how far he rides in a day??? As far as I'm concerned if you are out there riding your bike and carrying camping gear you're a bike tourist in my books.

There are supported tour groups on the parkway, but I've never seen any of those folks in a campground or met any of them as they always seem to be headed in the opposite direction.

I will say that if you head anywhere with a set of negative expectations it seems like the universe is happy to oblige you so I'd suggest you may be creating your own zone of dissatisfaction. Of course I've met people who seem to enjoy the complaining part of a trip more than any other single element.

One issue on the Icefield's is campgrounds can get very full especially if you arrive late in the day as you might on a long day in the saddle. When I ride the parkway my back up plan for a full camp ground is to ask someone to share. I'd be willing to pay, but I may not have change to give someone $7.50 exactly.

Now that I think of it last year 6 of us were in a campground on the Icefield's when a guy we had met earlier in the day rides in and asked to join us. He was on some far flung multi-month bike tour. He never did give us $2.14 for his share of the spot and he drank two of our ice cold Coronas...OTOH he gave us some lentils and rice as well as told us some cool stories...I was having such a good time I guess I forgot to feel ripped off!...

BengeBoy 

+1,000



This applies to any kind of travel, BTW.

avatarworf

Ask for what you really want, don't worry about the rest! If it's a big deal to you, then yes, I'd be upfront about your desire to share costs. That said, I have to agree with many others here. We've been on the receiving end of so much 'road magic' that often if we see a cyclist we offer them a place on our site before they ask. If we can save them a few bucks, it's a nice way to give back to the community and hopefully we get some good company for the night and maybe even new friends.

avatarworf

I agree that campsites in Quebec/Ontario are very overpriced compared with elsewhere in the world. In the prairies, there are some great and very reasonable municipal sites. We found opportunities to free camp just about everywhere so I can't share your opinion on the lack of wild camping. Sometimes you just have to be willing to detour off onto a range road a little ways to find the quiet spots or ask around. Plenty of locals have offered us spots or told us where would be good.

axolotl

There is an implication in this comment, intended or not, that the OP is to blame for the bad behavior of others that he described in this thread.

vik 

Well first off that response wasn't to the OP's post. I was responding to someone else who was making a blanket criticism of an area I know well. Since I've been there many times and know people who have been there many times and have not had any of the negative experiences the poster had it is a logical assumption that the poster's negative experiences may be driven by his expectation that bike tourists on the parkway are in some way deficient compared to the "real" bike tourists that populate other touring destinations.

But, if you want to talk about it the OP is not to blame for someone else's behaviour...the OP is only responsible for his behaviour and his reactions to other people's behaviour.

I read a quote somewhere that seems appropriate..."...life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you choose to react to it..."

danarnold

Makes sense. My Canadian camping experience is limited to British Columbia. I have found sites in the bush there, just more work. But it may be just not knowing one's way around. I've been spoiled by the many places in Eastern Oregon where one can camp for free beside a creek, away from those that like to bring drum sets and such.

neil

Yes, very rude. But everyone who's said that you should get the money up-front is right. It's hard enough to trust a friend where money is concerned, a stranger shouldn't be trusted at all.

If you don't bargain for 5 cents in a third world country, you create the illusion that tourists are there to be taken advantage of. For the next tourist to come along, the price will be higher, because clearly if you agreed to the initial offer, the initial offer was too low.

vik 

I'm most familiar with campgrounds in Alberta and BC, but I have camped in Ontario as well. It's not technically legal to camp outside of provincial/federal campsites in most areas, but nobody is really checking to see if you are wild camping. If you don't want to be in a designated camp site just roll your bike off the road and out of view. As long as you don't start a fire you won't have any issues. I'm curious why you say they make it tough to camp anywhere but designated campsites....what are they doing other than saying you shouldn't???

The campgrounds that have tent specific sites in BC and AB are quite nice. Since they don't have to make room for a vehicle to drive in they tend to be more private with a narrow path leading between the sites.

The only campgrounds I don't really like are the ones targeted at RVs. They tend to pack people in and don't offer as much privacy. This is simply due to the logistics of fitting in a huge RV and the fact inside your RV you have lots of privacy. I'm not an RV person, but they pay their taxes as well and deserve some facilities in our parks. Generally there are campgrounds for tents and small trailers nearby the RV specific ones so you can choose. Occasionally that's not possible if you are tired and can't ride the extra 5 - 10kms.

positron

This is almost certainly the stupidest, and most offensive thing Ive ever read on the bike forums touring boards.

imi

Can of Worms time?

njkayaker

While it was a bit clumsy, it's not really that far off. In many places, bargaining is the norm and it's often uncomfortable for visitors to do. If you don't bargain, you will be paying a higher price than you "should" and what seller expects to get. It's not uncommon for prices for tourists to be higher than those for locals.

robow

New kid, eh? Hang around here for a while and before long, you will come to think of that as quite astute compared to what else you read

NoReg

"The issue isn't that I should have made payment-sharing an explicit condition concurrent with my agreement. I could have done that. The issue is that I thought I wouldn't have had to"

I'm with you, though the etiquette of some stuff like hitchhiking is that the person asking is getting a free ride doesn't have to split the gas or give say 45 cents a mile. There may be an offer, but overall the assumption is it is a gift.

"The screams from the tasering would likely keep away the bears as well and be a service to the entire campground."

Nope, that is called "calling", great way to attract predators: https://www.burnhambrothers.com/

Human screams might be cutting edge enough to start a new business.

Vik, you are likely right about Ontario, except for wild camping. My take is the property trespass rules that were extended many years ago to say that trespass could be assumed if one goes on fenced, cropped, etc... land is limited to those categories because before that there was nothing to stop you. In the absence of those categories, and others like parks, there still is nothing to stop you. However, most roadsides are owned by someone, so it gets problematic for cyclists versus canoeists and hikers who can venture deep off-road.

NoReg

""If you don't bargain for 5 cents in a third world country, you create the illusion that tourists are there to be taken advantage of. For the next tourist to come along, the price will be higher, because clearly if you agreed to the initial offer, the initial offer was too low.""

"This is almost certainly the stupidest, and most offensive thing Ive ever read on the bike forums touring boards."

Don't agree. There are people in the first world who are dying for lack of money (the uninsured in some cases, etc...), and there are people in the third world who while living on extremely small amounts of money are doing just fine. Possibly including those whose surplus in something of value, like land or food allows them to supply tourists. Bargaining is part of "price discovery". It is just the process of determining what something actually costs. Most people aren't touring in starvation zones and cutting great deals on conflict diamonds.

efuentes

I AM a citizen of a third world country, and let me tell you, it`s the people on 5k Riv`s that seems that cant pay for an honest service because we are all crooks, that offend me, but then again I have found people like that everywhere. Maybe what we need are less preconceptions and generalization in this world.

Saludos

yeamac 

Somewhat related to this thread, when you are touring and ask to camp on someone's homestead or at a church (especially if you use their water and/or restrooms) do you offer to leave a little money, or do you just assume it is free?

cmburch

I have been on both sides of the need to share a place to sleep due to everything being filled. All campgrounds filled is common in California and popular National Parks. Many times people have allowed us to share a site. I can not think of a time when someone has asked for money. We do not part take in table or campfire privileges unless invited. And try to be as quite as possible.

I have never expected payment. As long as they do not disturb us or our sleep. I think that if one accepts payment for splitting a site then that allows the guest full privileges of the site. It is easy enough to set rules for camp guests if no payment accepted.

California is now charging $35 per night for campsites. Counties and private sites are matching fee increases.

Of course, if I was a student with today's fees, I would definitely ask for help with paying for the site.

BengeBoy 

...or just leave some money in the collection box without even asking?

neil

Does it offend you because it assumes that people in third world countries are actually smart enough to understand the fundamentals of capitalist markets? Or is there some other reason I'm missing.

edit: Just to be clear, I am perfectly willing to pay a fair price for goods or services in any country. But my original statement was in response to someone referring to good negotiators as being ugly tourists. There is nothing wrong with haggling over small amounts of money in countries where that is expected behaviour from both local and foreigners alike. Personally, I am not very good at haggling, and am likely to agree after just a couple of rounds. But failure to participate is a problem for everyone who comes after because it distorts the market, and people who get really into it are not necessarily vindictive or ugly in any way.

staehpj1

Actually I would consider it pretty bad form and would be more inclined to ask them to pay a half. I'd probably say, "Great, we can both save half of the cost of the site".

Truth is that no one has ever asked me to share a site in a pay campground. I did ask to share a site with some folks that we had been staying with already, but paid half without being asked.