I've been following this thread with interest as I'm seriously considering a Sutra.
Firstly, thanks goes to thermador for compiling such a thorough review. Kona should be very happy!

I'll qualify any comments I make by saying my riding experience extends to about 38 years, ranging from a 12in Raleigh to bouncing off trees on a Kona Stinky.
The Sutra is clearly intended for the mid to long distance cyclist. One look at the shifters should scare away any weight weenie racer.
As a tourer/commuter I like my bikes to be strong and reassuringly built. Yes Kona could have used better lighter steel but you'd be digging much further into your pockets.

A major issue on this post appears to be the brakes. Referring to a rider who ran out of brakes on a long decent, that would come from poor set-up but more likely feathering the brakes for too long. I regularly descend a 10-15% hill at 40mph+ for over a mile and have never experienced brake fade. I guess I'm lucky.
I currently use V-brakes and canti's (MTB and road bike) in all conditions all year round and I'm still impressed at their stopping power.
On a bike like the Sutra, the only considerations of the brakes should be is whether you can maintain them on the road and the availability of spares.
Looking for disc pads in the US or Europe is one thing, sourcing spares in the developing world another.
I don't think you'd find many world travellers using disc brakes for that reason alone.
For domestic use I'd pick what you feel comfortable with.

The fact that you can fit a 26in disc mounted wheel in a Sutra should dispel any fears of taking this bike further afield. The best of both worlds I say. Speedy commuter one day, rough single track another.

My short list came down to a Sutra and a Surly LHT. Both the same price for complete bikes in the UK.
But being a tight Welshman I like value for money, so the Sutra wins hands down.

Ha! THAT I don't know, as I haven't had a crankset installed yet when I did that, but that might be a problem! If you really want to know then remind me this weekend (send me a PM), I should have the crankset installed by then.

FYI, if anyone is interested, I'm in a process of building up a touring bike around a 56cm 2009 Sutra frame. I'm going with Modolo touring handlebar and all MTB parts including rapid fire shifters. I'll document this in this thread.

I also bough a used 49cm complete 2009 Sutra for my wife and will modify it in the same way: MTB crank, FD and shifters and a touring bar.

The reasons I picked the Sutra over LHT: Sutra is cheaper and has disc brake mounts.

Adam

Yes, if you do use 26" wheels on the bike, there are a few considerations. You may want to use shorter cranks, and you definitely will want to use taller tires, in order to compensate for the lower bottom bracket.

The average bottom bracket height on the 2010 Sutra is 279mm (varies with frame size, more height with larger frames). 700c wheels have an ISO diameter of 622mm, whereas 26" wheels have an ISO diameter of 559mm (this is all per Sheldon Brown). So you are losing (622 - 559) = 63mm of diameter. Since it's a circle, your actually losing half that (i.e. the bottom half at the road) so about 31.5mm.

So, assuming that your tires are the same height before and after the swap, you're going to lose just over 3 cm of height. That brings the bottom bracket height down about 11% from:

49cm/52cm frame: (276 - 31.5) = 244.5
54cm/56cm frame: (279 - 31.5) = 247.5
58cm/60cm frame: (282 - 31.5) = 250.5

So you have three options:

1) Shorter cranks: going from 275mm cranks to 165mm cranks saves 1 cm - not bad, but this may or may not be comfortable for you.

2) Taller tires: since tire width is usually a rough approximation for tire height, going from say, 3.2cm tires on the 700c rims to 5.2 cm tires on the 26" rims would save you about 2 cm of drop.

3) Do nothing, and just learn to ride with the lower bottom bracket and increased risk of pedal strike (I do NOT recommend this - at least some of the lower bottom bracket height should be mitigated somehow).

Personally, I would go with fatter tires for several reasons. First, it's cheaper and easier than replacing the cranks. Second, wide 26" tires are widely available, but narrow 26" tires are much less common. So if you pick a wide 26" rim (i.e. mountain bike style), you'll have the most options when you're touring someplace where there aren't many bike shops. Finally, wider tires won't impact the geometry of the rider, unlike large changes in the crank length.

Regarding the disc brakes, like I said in the review, it's been discussed ad nauseum, but to sum up, people have successfully toured all over the world on disc brakes, they just bring plenty of extra pads with them, and maybe even an extra cable/caliper if they are paranoid. The pads are much smaller than canti/v-brake pads, so you can pack dozens of them in a small space if you wish.

What about the specs of the Sutra vs. the Raleigh Sojourn?
I know the paint job is nicer, but what about the rest, as both of these offer the disc brakes. I am not sure, but I think Raleigh upgraded the brakes for 2010 to
BB7's.
Which has the better hubs, wheelset, drivetrain for the touring lower inches?
Lyndon

thermador what were you thoughts on sutra in 58 size(since you got 60 and changed stems and all)? maybe 58 would've been better fit? Dunno what size would be better for me, 56 or 58(im 5.11), and what about bar height difference on 58 and 60?maybe that is the reason to go bigger?

I've used Conti Contacts for ages both for touring and commuting. I made an exception to this for a recent tour of the Californian deserts thanks to advice from BF and took SMPs... Thorn puncture proof but the "sluggishness was very noticeable.

The Contacts are for me a great balance between puncture resistance, "speed" and price. I can afford to replace them more often than I would SMPs, Conti Top Tourings or similar...

So all in all a good choice on this bike IMO...

Go with 58cm. You can get shorter stem if you need to.

Good to know. My wife's Kona Sutra came with Conti Contact tires and I was wondering about them. So looks like we'll keep them.

yeah, i thought that too(and 56 are in short supply so its easier to get 58). but never had any dropbar bike before so im pretty clueless about the fit(dunno what i really like/what would suit me, how high should bar be etc..)what i don't know is what difference 73 and 72.5 angle seat tube makes on sutra ?

I don't think that angle difference would matter.

The position of the bar can be adjusted with a stem of different size, even an adjustable one so you can bring the bar up or down to your liking, which will also move the bar closer to you. On my 56cm Sutra, which is a bit on the small side as you know, I use 150mm stem, on a 58cm I'd probably use a 100mm one.

?? there can't be so much difference in frames one would require 5cm difference in stem?

That wasn't a deeply thought out engineering statement I said "probably".

As I've said, my body type is somewhat abnormal. I could have ridden the 58 or the 60, but I test-rode the 58 and because of my telephone-pole femurs, I felt a little cramped. I really could have gone with the 58 and a longer stem or a 60 and a shorter stem. Test ride if you can. If you can't, get the 58 (which would be about right for 5'11" anyway) and then adjust as necessary.

I looked at both the 2009 Sutra and 2010 Sojourn up-close in the bike shop before I bought my Sutra. The key difference between these two bikes is that the Sutra frame is made in Taiwan (where most of the Japanese bike-building industry moved after the Japanese yen increased in value relative to the dollar in the late 1980s, and therefore increased cost of building bikes in Japan. The Chinese government has learned from this and keeps their currency artificially devalued.) Typically, Taiwanese frames are well-made, because the frame manufacturers there know what they're doing.

Conversely, the Sojourn frame is made in China. (China's bike manufacturing industry today is like that of Japan in the 1960s - not great. Hopefully, it will one day become as good as Japan was in the 1980s, but who knows?) The Sojourn's paint isn't as nice and the welds are pretty sloppy. The Sutra's welds are clean and crisp, with very nicely overlapped 'pools' or ridges or whatever you call them. The Sojourn's welds, on the other hand, had dissimilar pool sizes, as though the welders hands were shaking as they moved along the weld, and some of the welds I saw had spatter (little bumps of metal) that had just been painted over.

Anyway, combine that with the fact that the hubs on the Soujourn are Joytech ("meh" level quality) versus the Shimano 525's on the Sutra (about 105-level quality, i.e. pretty good), as well as the lower quality BB5 brakes (according to Raleigh's website, BB5 on the 2010 model, not BB7). The two bikes have pretty similar gearing (same front gears, two extra teeth on the tallest rear gear on the Raleigh), and a very similar price.

So what are you paying for with the Raleigh? Well, first of all, the Brook's leather seat and handlebar wrap. That's expensive stuff! Second, the Sojourn frame, while poorly welded, is Reynold's 520 single butted tubing, versus Kona's house-brand single butted tubing. So basically, you're paying for some names (Brooks and Reynold) and a few bells and whistles (errr.. a bell and a pump to be precise.) Overall, I think the Kona is a much better value.

Great review, a HUGE help! It's too bad that the 2010 Sutra appears to be completely sold out here in Canada, as I found out yesterday when I tried to order one through my local dealer (56").

Anyone know when we can expect the 2011 to start showing up?

I have one question about your bike though, thermador. The rotors in your pictures are clearly different from in the manufacturer's picture. Did you replace them?

Thanks! No idea on the sold out status, although I was told by my bike shop that Kona does several production runs per year, so things that are sold out often don't stay sold out forever.

As far as the rotors, those are what came on the bike. If you look at the 2009 Sutra you'll notice they are the same, so they probably just had some 2009 rotors left over at the factory. My bike was from the first production run of the 2010 Sutras, so that sort of thing is to be expected.

As far as an update on the bike, still running strong, no issues. Just keeps eating up the miles. ;-)

thermador could you please post more pictures of chainstays from different angles? i also got sutra 2010 and the bend in driveside and diskside chainstays is not quite identical...

Thermador,
Have you read the 2011 specs? I am wondering if they dropped down in quality on the rims?
Our ultra-marathon, ride around the world workhorse doesn't change much for 2011. Why change a beautiful thing? hIrSch has ridden this bike 55,000 miles, which is about 2-1/2 times around the earth, and to keep our ever-wandering cycling muse happy, new for 2011, we add a better handlebar, a laid back seatpost for a more balanced position on the bike, Shimano crankset, WTB Freedom rims.
https://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=sutra
Lyndon
Plus the price seems to have spiked as well. :0(

I like the color of 2010 model much much better! new one has really ugly paintjob..

Yeah, I'm curious about the change in components and a hike in the price. The Shimano Tiagra crankset is about the same price as the old FSA Omega, and the "Deore" hubs are probably still the M525's, but what about those wheels? From what little I could find on line, those hoops sell for slightly less than the Alex XD's from 2010 (and the Mavic A's used from 2005-2009). That is, the Freedom Ryder 21 hoop sells for about $25, the Alex XD Lite for about $35, and the Mavic A317 for about $40. So Kona cheaped out on the rims for the second year in a row, but the price went UP by $200 **********???

Unless Kona's input costs went up considerably, it's hard to justify this price hike. Any Kona reps dare to jump in here?

That said, I've had my gorgeous root-beer-brown 2010 Sutra for about a year now, and I'm loving it. Not a single problem, just keeps on truckin. Get one while you still can, or better yet, try and get one on an end-of-year clearance.

I noticed one thing with cranks on my sutra, when measuring from inside of the crankarms to the downtube, the driveside crankarm is about 2.5/3 mm closer than the non driveside. the sign on the crank says 130 bcd, so maybe with 135mm rear spacing one would need a 2.5mm spacer on the driveside like i have on my mtb with slx crank (outboard bearing like fsa omega)?

130 bcd is a measurement for the chainring bolts. There may be a spacer on the drive-side of the bottom bracket - depending on the chainline.

Hi there. I am in the process of choosing a new bike and the Kona Sutra is in my short list. The bike looks perfect except for one thing: the gear shifters at the end of the drop bars! WTF!? How are you supposed to use these things? It looks completely useless to me.

Where were you expecting them to be? I have a Rohloff setup and the shifter is a knob at the end of the right drop bar. No probs there.

You're on a touring bike, not a racer.

That is because you're a noob!

You either pull or push them down.

Ok you got me. I'm a n00b . Seriously how does anyone shift when you have to reach for those little levers at the end of the bar? I don't get it. And this is a deal killer for me.

You're on a touring bike where you normally have LOTS of time before you need to shift.