Hey gang,

So I just bought a pair of Mavic a719 rims laced to Shimano XT hubs, 36 DT spoke count, straight gauge spokes. I'll be going on about a 1 1/2 month paved-road tour come May, probably weighing in with a net of around 240-50#. These conditions in mind, should the stock straight gauge spokes of this wheelset be okay, or should I buy some double butted spokes and rebuild the set around those?

To those who have toured with straight gauge spokes, how was it? To those who have toured with both SG and DB, did the SG spokes give you significantly more trouble? Or is this just another issue that I'm fretting over way too much in anticipation of my first loaded tour?

Thanks,

-Brian

Do not be concerned despite all the arguments theories out there. I know, you wanna know why right? Just don't, but if you must, just google "double butted straight spokes."

You'll be fine- a new wheel is a new wheel. DB spokes will set you back 80-100 bucks, plus a wheelbuild, or the time spent doing it yourself.

If you want to throw money at your concern, you'd be much better served paying the best mechanic you can find to detension and re-build the wheels you already have....

Modern straight gauge spokes are amazingly good, and while long term stability might be slightly less good than with butted, you'll likely not have any problem for years.

Did you get the wheels online? were they handbuilt? Careful tensioning of these wheels is your safest bet.

Co-Motion touring bikes come with 36 SG 14ga spokes. My prediction is that at 240-250 gross weight (w/ your rims / hubs), you will NEVER break a spoke unless, of course, you - God forbid - crash.

Did you buy them on ebay?

I have that exact same wheelset and it has been great, no problems in the last two years or so I've had them, fully loaded touring, commuting, and even some dirt trails.

yep, you're worrying too much. 20-30yrs ago most of my wheels were straight gauge 15g or 14g and the rims went before the spokes did. The theoretical benefit of butted spokes won't manifest themselves for a long time.

I'd not worry about the straight gauge spokes on a new wheel. They will likely give you years of service. If you have to rebuild in the future go with DT Alpine III.

Thanks everyone! It's so easy to worry with all the internet talk about how much more durable double butted spokes are compared to single gauge. Some people make it seem like riding single gauge spokes will be the biggest regret of my life. It's nice to know that the issue isn't as dramatic as some like to make it out.

Yeah, from Rocky Mountain Cyclery's store. Did you also pick them up off of RMC?

If I were building them, I'd use double butted (actually I'd use triple butted). If I buy them (like stock wheels on a bike), it's no big deal if they are single butted.

exactly!

Indeed I did. After I got them I took them to my LBS to make sure they were tensioned correctly, and since they have been great! true them up once a year or so and no worries.

More than SB or DB spokes, I'd be concerned about the build quality. Really well made wheels don't need trued or tensioned after they leave the builder. Take them to a good wheelbuilder before you ride them and have then trued and tensioned as well as they can.

The only difference I can see between modern straight gauge spokes and double butted is the weight. I built a pair of cheapo wheels for my utility bike a couple of years ago. After a couple of thousand miles, all is well. Honestly, unless you're a weight-weenie, the extra money for double butted probably isn't worth it.

well, actually, the theory is that the butted sections (most of the spoke) are already pre-stretched and are therefore less likely to stretch over time, and accordingly less likely to loosen up over thousands of compression-release cycles. That said, its not really an issue.

my understanding is that there's slightly more stretch possible in the thin sections and that helps to reduce the stress on the bend at the hub. My $.02 is that enough spokes and sufficient and even tension make a bigger difference.

Sakkitt theoretical builder of the best uber-expedition bikes specifies straight gage. It seems to be one of those arguments that is theoretical. Whenever I find equally pasionate calls of opposite approaches I note the specifics, and mostly stop worrying about the issue. Even in theory there are arguments on both sides when talking touring bikes.

While you are researching, go look up the Jobst Brandt stuff on spoke life. He is certainly a believer in buted spokes, however, for the most part he rebuilds wheels endlessly using the same spokes for many subsequent rims. He was at hundreds of thousands of mile for the same spokes. So when talking about poor spoke life and spoke breakage, what are we talking about? Spokes last for ever worry a bout rims.

Actually it is sorta like putting or hidden hatches in trout fishing: people are attributing meaning to something that isn't the cause. For instance in putting the ball misses the hole a fair amount of the time when perfectly read rolled from 8 feet due to the inconsistancies in the most perfect grass. But people see the problem as a technical one and make endless changes. Hidden hatches are when trout are eating a small insect when a big one is also hatching. This can lead to endless attempts to find the right fly for the wrong hatch. Maybe as with Jobst example, a certain number of bad spokes break early and need to be culled until the whole wheel is made up of spokes not made on a monday. Then they last forever. Meanwhile the average user is imputing many fanciful causes for the spoke breakage when they should be thinking quality control. Every time they buy a new wheel they expose themselves to more made on monday spokes, and so it goes. Buy good wheels in the first place, get them built properly and stick with them.

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