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LHT slow**********????

Old 04-29-10, 11:08 AM
  #1  
ddez
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LHT slow**********????

I often see comments like LHT is a great bike but "slow". Its the first bike ive owned and ive been around awhile, where if i want i can pass MTBs and hybrids with not that much effort. If i dont want them passing its no problem to stay ahead. All my past bikes have been variations of MTB or hybrids(except in old days with 10-12 speeds),where i couldn't catch anyone. I find it far faster than i need to go. What am i missing here?
So my question is if its "slow" what are they using for comparisons, other tourers or roadie type bikes?/or both?
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Old 04-29-10, 11:29 AM
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If you are used to a road bike, it feels slow. I think it is more perception than reality, judging from my commute times on my LHT versus my Felt Z90. I think more of it has to do with the fat tires and plush ride than the weight. I always take the felt on group rides, but I think the biggest advantage there is the close gearing relative to the LHT, more than the weight. That said, I'm no racer, and marginal speed differences just aren't that important to me. I love my LHT for utility and commuting, and am looking forward to touring on it.
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Old 04-29-10, 11:59 AM
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Its a touring bike.You like it or you don't.
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Old 04-29-10, 12:10 PM
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Somebody has to say it: "It's not the bike...".
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Old 04-29-10, 12:11 PM
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Not slow as much as "Slower." Compared to my 16lb twitchy, super responsive, I-want-to-go-fast-like-the-wind Pinarello, of course it's slower. But I can't carry 40lbs of gear for days and days on the Pin either.
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Old 04-29-10, 01:01 PM
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The only time it's slower is when speeding up or on hills. It takes no more effort to ride a LHT at 15mph than it does to ride a Cervelo RS at 15mph.
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Old 04-29-10, 01:09 PM
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How can a bike be slow? It can only be heavy or have too much flex or have big/heavy wheels or tires. Who wants to go fast on a touring bike, anyway?
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Old 04-29-10, 01:23 PM
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Compared to what?

I have several bikes and my Ti road bike is more efficient than my Touring bike or Cyclocross bike at higher speeds. My steel bikes flex more that the Ti bike and some loss of efficiency at higher efforts is the case.

At touring speeds, the touring bike is just as fast.

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Old 04-29-10, 02:23 PM
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I don't think the question is specific to the LHT being slow. I think it's a question of heavy being slow. The LHT is a heavy bike when dressed for touring. I have a custom LHT with "boutique" parts and when weighed, it was 28 lbs without racks, fenders, lights, computer, bottle cages etc. I also ride a Tarmac that with everything, spare tubes, tool, GPS, bottle cages etc. weighs in at 16 lbs. Me being the same motor for both, I can ride my Tarmac to 32 mph (measured by GPS) on flat ground. On my LHT I have never been able to get above 25 over the same ground. I understand that both bikes are geared differently also which is also part of the answer to why a LHT is slow or slower than a road bike because the gearing is more for climbing or pulling a load. It all depends on what bike you're making the observation from.
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Old 04-29-10, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bikearound View Post
I don't think the question is specific to the LHT being slow. I think it's a question of heavy being slow. The LHT is a heavy bike when dressed for touring. I have a custom LHT with "boutique" parts and when weighed, it was 28 lbs without racks, fenders, lights, computer, bottle cages etc. I also ride a Tarmac that with everything, spare tubes, tool, GPS, bottle cages etc. weighs in at 16 lbs. Me being the same motor for both, I can ride my Tarmac to 32 mph (measured by GPS) on flat ground. On my LHT I have never been able to get above 25 over the same ground. I understand that both bikes are geared differently also which is also part of the answer to why a LHT is slow or slower than a road bike because the gearing is more for climbing or pulling a load. It all depends on what bike you're making the observation from.
You can't manage the extra 8 watts?

https://www.noping.net/english/

702 watts to run a 30lb bike at 32mph compared to 696 watts for a 16lb bike.

There might be other things going on (eg, tire resistance) that make it somewhat harder to get the heavier bike up to speed but weight on the flats isn't a big deal.
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Old 04-29-10, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dwilbur3 View Post
Somebody has to say it: "It's not the bike......it's the rider".
Fixed it.
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Old 04-29-10, 03:54 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Hamish200sx View Post
It takes no more effort to ride a LHT at 15mph than it does to ride a Cervelo RS at 15mph.
My power meter would tend to disagree with this statement...
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Old 04-29-10, 04:29 PM
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Ok so maybe when i read someone saying LHT is a slow bike,what they are saying is its for riding slow. Cause when i get on it its heck of a lot faster than my MTB. I was surprised when i got it,i wasnt expecting it to go as good cause of the comments id read before purchasing it about it being slow.
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Old 04-29-10, 04:37 PM
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Slow has to do with the rider.

But the LHT is one of the best touring bikes for a multitude of reasons. One of the reasons is it's strength and geometry. This might account for extra weight and a slightly more upright feel resulting in "slowness" feeling?

Personally, I think if you try to haul 75lbs worth of crap up a mountain on a carbon road bike, you are just plain silly.
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Old 04-29-10, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by X-LinkedRider View Post
Slow has to do with the rider.

But the LHT is one of the best touring bikes for a multitude of reasons. One of the reasons is it's strength and geometry. This might account for extra weight and a slightly more upright feel resulting in "slowness" feeling?

Personally, I think if you try to haul 75lbs worth of crap up a mountain on a carbon road bike, you are just plain silly.
Absolutely++1.
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Old 04-29-10, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
My power meter would tend to disagree with this statement...
You have a power meter on your Long Haul Trucker?
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Old 04-29-10, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
You can't manage the extra 8 watts?

https://www.noping.net/english/

702 watts to run a 30lb bike at 32mph compared to 696 watts for a 16lb bike.

There might be other things going on (eg, tire resistance) that make it somewhat harder to get the heavier bike up to speed but weight on the flats isn't a big deal.
Haven't been able to so far but thanks for asking. It could also have to do with the fact that my LHT is not very aero and is way more upright than my road bike and it could be tires or gearing who knows.
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Old 04-29-10, 06:44 PM
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I'm slow on all my bikes. In fact, I tend to ride about the same speed on pavement whether on my road bike, mountain bike, or my LHT -- 12 to 14 mph (normally I average in the 12 to 13 range). When touring on my LHT (or any other bike), I average about 10 to 11 mph.
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Old 04-29-10, 07:53 PM
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If you judge your speed by who you pass and who passes you, then I think you're paying attention to the wrong thing. If you ride alone, it doesn't really matter. If you ride with friends, then it might matter if they are always waiting for you or vice versa.
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Old 04-29-10, 07:55 PM
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Popular belief is that aerodynamics has the most affect on speed. A normal LHT will be set up with bars around saddle height whereas a road bike might have the bars several inches below saddle height. Racers "sit up" for a reason when they've given up on a breakaway.
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Old 04-29-10, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by z90 View Post
You have a power meter on your Long Haul Trucker?
I own a Cervelo RS, a touring bike based on Nashbar's Double-Butted Aluminum Touring frame, and a 700c wheel with a PowerTap Pro+ hub...
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Old 04-29-10, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
I own a Cervelo RS, a touring bike based on Nashbar's Double-Butted Aluminum Touring frame, and a 700c wheel with a PowerTap Pro+ hub...
So, not exactly, but maybe close enough. Can you give us some real data?
Just for kicks, ride a mile at 15 mph hour with each bike on a flat stretch. Try it in aero and non-aero positions. Three trials for each treatment, so we can get a standard deviation.
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Old 04-29-10, 08:47 PM
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Geometry and wheelbase have a lot to do with how fast a bike feels. Something with 74 deg angles will feel more responsive and could be 10lbs lighter than the LHT. I've measured myself riding the same course on a Rambouillet sport tourer and a Neo Primato road bike and I average 1 mph faster on the Neo Primato
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Old 04-29-10, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bikearound View Post
Haven't been able to so far but thanks for asking. It could also have to do with the fact that my LHT is not very aero and is way more upright than my road bike and it could be tires or gearing who knows.
aero and tires AND weight is it. Weight does make a difference because it takes energy in the anaerobic territory to accelerate up to peak speeds. If one is spending more time accelerating while going anaerobic there's less time to maintain that very high speed before blowing up.
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Old 04-29-10, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ddez View Post
So my question is if its "slow" what are they using for comparisons, other tourers or roadie type bikes?/or both?
IF you have the horsepower and have a lean body mass training/racing with others of similar fitness it'll be obvious if one person straps on an extra 10lbs and lets ten lbs out of the tires and sits up on the tops instead of stretched out on the drops or hoods. You will go slower with all those changes and the folks you rode with would leave you in the dust. Slower means going 20mph instead of 21mph, 25mph instead of 28mph. A 1mph speed difference will drop you out of a paceline in seconds, once you're pushing your own air you'll be riding a lot slower than your buddies. That's why racers don't strap on 10lb lead weights to their bikes.
But if you aren't riding with other riders in a 20mph paceline occasionally sprinting to 30mph it's all moot. I'm 50lbs heavier and significantly weaker than when I could do that stuff so it's an irrelevant issue. I can notice the the difference but it's not a practical difference for 95% of my riding.
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