twinkles

I just retired fairly young (age 54); led a very sedate life. Would now like to have some adventures. I just finished a longish backpack trip (324 miles in 29 days) for my first mini-adventure. I would now like to try a bicycle trip, so I am thinking about the Transamerica starting a year from now. The last bike I owned was a "10-speed" I bought about 40 years ago and abandoned when I left college.

I am not quite an ultra light backpacker, but my cold weather backpack weight with 2 liters of water, and four days of food was 30 pounds. I would expect that my bicycle weight would be about 33 pounds (more clothes, less food, 1.5 lbs heavier tent), plus additional weight of paniers over my pack, spares and tools (which I can't yet estimate).

I need to get a bike and start training. After a week of reading I am now leaning strongly in four directions. I thought I would summarize those directions and see what those with some experience think:

1. Surly Long Haul Trucker. The popularity of this bike here and on other sites keeps bringing me back to it.
Pros:
a. Affordability.
b. Dependable (based on what I read here).
c. Plenty adequate for my intended purpose.
Cons:
a. Perhaps weight?

2. Comotion Nor'wester Tour. Comotion seems to be very well reguarded here and on other sites. Comotion's marketing seems to emphasize an understanding of touring needs.
Pros:
a. Dependable (based on what i read here).
b. Plenty adequate for my intended purpose.
c. Perhaps weight (it is difficult to get weight comparisons on the web)
d. S&S coupler option seems like it would give me some flexibility.
Cons:
a. Unnecessarily expensive? As a general rule, I don't mind paying more if it buys me utilty that is advantageous, but I am not sure that there is utilty over and above the LHT (which is why I am posting).

3. Comotion Americano.
a. Popular--it seems to be popular among those who are willing to pay for it.
b. Dependable
c. More than adequate for my intended purpose.
d. S&S coupler option seems like it would give me some flexibility.
e. Rohloff option seems like it would enhance dependability.
f. Gates Belt options seems like it would help reduce weight.
Cons:
a. Very expensive, especially with options that seems to add value

4. Comotion Pangea
a. Dependable
b. More than adequate for my intended purpose.
c. S&S coupler option seems like it would give me some flexibility.
e. Rohloff option seems like it would enhance dependability.
f. Something about its looks really appeals to me.
Cons:
a. Very expensive, especially with options that seems to add value.
b. Probably purposed for much more challenging adventures than I am ever likely to take, but I could.

Bruce Gordon Rock and Road Tour-Ex might have been on my list, but the lack of a dealer network worries me. I need someone to help with sizing. Speaking of which, I am willing to travel to work with the best sizing guru if you have thoughts on that.

Garthr

I would not recommend any frame with less than 135mm rear dropouts.

Of the vast array of touring frames ..... don't limit yourself to the Surly and Co-motion! There's better frames than the LHT for less than the price of a Co-motion.


On that note ..... it's impossible for anyone to know what's best for you, only you know that. If you have the funds, by all means get a custom frame. The problem I see is, you've not ridden long enough to really know what you like or don't like in terms of fit or ride of a given frame. You could spend $$$$ and get an improper frame.

From all the advice I see and read online about bike fit....... none of it's worth much. Every builder has their own philosophy on fit. No one is shaped like you physically or mentally. One's passion is another's poison. But , you gotta start somewhere Use existing fit info and fine tune it to you.... don't be afraid to go outside the "the norm".... because there is no such thing.

You may be better off with a cheap frame for now until you learn what you like and don't like about the bike.

I would recommend however, to get good wheels built by a professional. Ask them if their wheels "stand". . . meaning they won't need tuned or break spokes for the life of the intended use of the wheel once they leave their shop. Yes, these builders exist and they deliver on the promise. Get good hubs, White Industries and Phil Wood are tops for ease of service and durability, Shimano are not. I'm a stickler about wheels, because they are arguably the most important part of the bike. People get caught up in the frame, spend lots of cash, then cheap out on wheels! Ouch.

Best of bike hunting ...

ploeg

You're never going to get the bike that you ultimately want at the first go.
Getting a stock bike and upgrading and modifying the bike bit by bit is a proven strategy.
So is buying a stock bike, and then after a year or two buying a second bike to complement the first.
You might want to get a reasonably priced road or mountain bike, start doing some day trips, and start breaking and fixing things so that you have your own notions of what works and what doesn't and what you will do if things don't work.
Weight doesn't matter so much when you're hauling xx pounds of stuff with you. Comfort and dependability do. Most people take 2 or 3 months to get across the country. They'll take days off every so often to recover, to avoid biking all day in the rain or cold, or simply to enjoy where they're at. That's a long time to be using ultralight gear.
People have done great things with plenty worse bikes than the LHT.
If you don't have patience to mess with things breaking, quality wheels are a good place to start. Shimano mountain hubs are good, provided that you get them serviced at the first sign of trouble.

John Nelson

If you're the type of guy who generally carries through with what he starts, and if you have the money, then go for the good stuff. What else are you going to spend your money on? On the other hand, if you're just testing the waters, then buy an entry level road bike and wait to get the touring bike until you see if you're going to like this sport.

Cyclebum

Fit is First. Test riding is the only way to make sure you're in the ball park with fit. As you gain experience, you'll very likely do a bit of tweaking to find the sweet spot. This usually involves stem length and/or bar height/type.

All the bikes you named, properly fitted, will make great touring bikes. The LHT will deliver the most for the $$$s. The incremental "improvements" offered by Co-Motion will come at a very high price and be of questionable practical value.

Pay particular attention to stock gear ratios. Most are too high for loaded touring by the average cyclist trying to spin up a long 6% grade.

electrik

Buy a stock bike, dial in your fit, accumulate your gear. You can't just dive right in, it will be expensive and wasteful. If your stock/basic touring bike somehow has a shortcoming(not likely unless you nitpick) then go ahead and upgrade, but why spend all your dough first if you can be satisfied with something cheaper?

kayakdiver

+1000

fat_bike_nut

I agree with the people who said go with the stock bike. Think of it as your experimental bike, and if you don't like it, then go spend more on the expensive one. Hey, two bikes are better than one, after all! By the way, if it's a bike designed for touring, it will last a good long time with you as long as you take care of it.

twinkles

Perhaps I don't understand the term "stock bike," but these both Comotion and Surly both seem to offer a stock bikes, just at radically different price points. Or, perhaps you mean something like the Safari?

valygrl

I'd get the Surly, since it will do everything you want at a much lower price point. The marginal utility of the nicer bikes isn't really worth it for someone who isn't a bike afficianado. If you want something nicer later, you'll be able to sell the Surly for a reasonable amount (here), but I wouldn't think you would get a decent amount for a very high end tour bike with lots of upgrades.

If you are going to do a lot of unloaded riding or credit card touring, you might consider weight, but for a fully loaded camping tour, don't worry about bike weight. You'll be happier with a sturdy frame that doesn't turn into a wet noodle when you put heavy bags on it.

Think of it as a pickup truck, not a sports car.

ricohman

Buy the bike that fits you the best. And you may have to try a few.
And buy the best platform you can afford. Because once you start swapping components in the coming years you end up spending more anyway.

markf

If you start with a Surly LHT you can always get a Comotion later. That will give you a second bike for grocery shopping, loaning to houseguests, etc. There are also nice bikes between the two extremes that you named, like the Trek 520.

Whatever you do, I would suggest that you get a bike, any bike as soon as possible, and start logging miles this year in preparation for your tour next year. Cycling is about more than just fitness, you'll have a much better time if you're comfortable riding in traffic, on a wide variety of road surfaces, and in all kinds of weather and terrain. A few shakedown tours this year wouldn't hurt, either. A good bike isn't a "turn-key" proposition, everybody's tastes are a little different, and the time you spend on the bike this year might give you some ideas for modifications that will make your big tour more pleasant. I would also suggest learning as much as you can about bicycle maintenance and repair.

I've read very mixed reviews about the Rohloff internal gear hub, I'm not convinced that it would be more dependable than a good derailleur system.

The Gates belt drive appears to be for tandems, are you buying a tandem?

How long will it take to get the Comotion? If you'll have to wait too long, you might be better off getting a less exotic bike to start with, so that you have something to ride until you get the bike of your dreams.

Why would you want a tent that's 1.5 lbs heavier than the one you have now? You're going to have to carry that tent with your own muscles, just like you did on your long backpack trip.

John N

I would buy a really nice used bike. You find Co-Motions, Thorns, Bruce Gordons, etc. on eBay/Craigslist/here/CGoaB/etc. with some regularity. It is sort of like buying a 2-3 year old Mercedes, really nice car but someone else takes the depreciation hit.

Buy buying used, you can get an idea of what you like/dislike but without spending a ton of money.

For instance, you might decide you like straight bars (MTB) over drop bars ("10-speed"), you might want 26" wheels over 700c, etc. You might decide you like fully self-contained (similar to hiking the Appalachian Trail) which would probably require a stronger, more stable but slower frame or credit card touring (B&B, eat out, etc.) which allows for a more nimble ride (dually pickup versus a nice touring sedan).

Once this is all known, you can get a custom-made bike if a typical stock (off the shelf) bike doesn't suit your needs.

John

electrik

Stock just means something that is widely available, Surly's LHT is like a currency.. they are everywhere and you could get one used probably. Just don't get so focused on high end or low end. Look at what you need the bike todo...which are probably... carry a load properly and be moderately comfortable. Parade around that you are uber-tourer at a later date once you have some experience!

LeeG

Don't get fixated on the bike or equipment, dial in your fitness and posture. A $3750 bike won't move you from A to B any better than a $750 bike once you pile on 30lbs of stuff.

tacomee

Ah, don't believe everything you read on the internet. You need to go to a good local shop and test ride a good touring bike, have the shop fit you for a bike and install racks and fenders for you. If a local shop carries Surly...well the LHT will fit your needs nicely.

Then there is bike......https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/520/520/ A very nice bike sold a Trek dealerships.

and this bike.....https://www.cannondale.com/usa/usaeng...9TR2-Touring-2

Get professional help at a good shop....all of these bikes are good value, but only if they are fitted and set up correctly.

Good luck...

JimT

Knowing what I know now, I think the first thing I would do is spend the money with a good bike fitter to find out just what size bike I need and then go find the bike that meets those requirements and then have the final fitting done once I got some miles in. Some folks are pretty good at figuring all that out for themselves.

Jim

Cyclesafe

The Reynolds 725 on the Co-Motions has a significantly better strength to weight ratio than Cro-Moly 4130. There is a handling difference that needs to be experienced, because an articulated discription of the difference is subjective and will precipitate a flame war on this forum. You have to decide for yourself whether the ride is worth the premium. It was definitely worth it for me. But YMMV.

The Rohloff gives you consistent "spacing" between shifts and lower maintenance versus a deraileur system, at the penalty of a little bit of weight and a little inefficiency. The extra cost is the big issue. You need to answer the "why" for yourself.

The Gates belt means no lubrication at ten times the cost of a chain. I suppose it will last much longer than a chain.

All those goodies - plus couplers - will set you back $7000. Isn't that too much for a bike?

If you take the incremental money and buy premium lightweight camping gear, say 40 lbs or (potentially much) less including panniers, you will be able to go anywhere on a road with a standard Norwester with couplers for about $4000, and still have a bike that you can ride unladen to keep up with club rides.

twinkles

I definitely want a good fitter--my highest priority. I would even get on an airplane if necessary to visit him/her if necessary. As far as test rides go, I have gathered that bikes with touring geometry are fairly niche and probably wont be stocked.

bobframe

I'm in the "if I can afford it, buy it" camp. My view is that I want to give my self the best possible experience and avoid problems rather than solve problems. Since I could afford it, I went looking for a Co-Motion Americano. I thought I'd give myself a few months and find a nice used one. Fuggedduboudit. I found nothing. So, I thought, this must be a pretty good indication that a) folks are pretty happy with them and b) if I ever wanted to sell mine, there's not a lot of competition-so I'd probably get a pretty fair price.

I've had mine for about 6 months and have done 3 one/two nighters and one 900 miler/18 night tours. On the longer tour, where we were riding nearly everyday, I really began to appreciate how well built, solid, smooth and comfortable the bike is. I found that even on decent US roads... a loaded touring bike takes a pounding being on the road all day- navigating rough pavement, stretches of gravel/dirt, dogging pot holes, whiskey strips, reflectors, trash, etc.

Big money, I'll admit....but I am 100% satisfied and convinced that I made a good choice. I have no interest in upgrading anything or making any changes. Had I bought an interim bike and had to sell it and upgraded to get where I am, well, you do the math.

Co-Motion requires the dealer to go through a pretty exhaustive pre-sale measurement process and incorporates the data into selecting either one of their standard sizes or going to a full blown custom bike. Following this, tweaks in steering tube and stem length, seat post position and saddle position let you fully dial in the correct fit. I'm guessing 99% of people have no need for a true custom bike.

kuan

Buy the LHT and go from there. Take it on weekend trips and tweak it. Then take it on longer trips and tweak it a little more. You may find you don't like barend shifters, or you may want that space for something else. I mean there are so many options you may not even think about until you've been on the bike for a few hundred miles. You may find you like a firm saddle with a thudbuster post, or maybe a Brooks sprung with Nitto North Road bars, or an uncluttered handlebar, etc.

Just saying, and sometimes it's not just fit, it's style. When you're done with figuring exactly how you'd like your bike to ride and feel then go for one of those money no object bikes or have someone make you one.

Check out mechiron's bike: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=1#post8880311

staehpj1

I tend to agree. I can afford an expensive bike and instead chose to ride a $599 bike on the Trans America. Looking back I don't regret the choice and I am still riding it. I honestly don't think the overall touring experience is that different between a $599 bike and a $5999 bike. This is one case where it really isn't about the bike as long as it meets some minimum suitability standards and fits well. Just one opinion though.

On the other hand if you get great pleasure out of pride of ownership and can afford it go for the high dollar stuff.

bobframe

BTW, the idea that you are going to go to a dealer and test ride a variety of touring bikes and use these inputs to make a decision is....well, a dream. Perhaps you could actually test ride a touring bike if you live in Portland or some other bicycle mecca, but my experience (living outside Atlanta) was that there are nearly zero touring bikes in stock within 100 miles of me, fewer than that in my size and exactly none in the Make and Model I was interested in. As one dealer explained to me, "if I had a 60cm Co-Motion Americano in inventory it would become a monument". (Gee, I'd like to buy that bike, but I really wanted one painted magenta with S&S couplers. Can you order me one?)

In my part of the world, touring bikes are bought sight unseen...big leap of faith, which is one reason I advocate buying the best you can afford.

NoReg

I agree about getting something good, but not over the top, until you get more experience. I got a stock touring bike, did a 2 week tour, figured I wouldn't really change a thing, then I started thinking about it and couldn't think of a single thing I wouldn't change. It is like a spouse, if the first one doesn't work out, the second one is a reaction to the first and the third one has some chance of being right. of course you can just get lucky at any stage.

The other thing is that "cheap" touring bikes are not as different from the ideal as a cheap racing bike vs. state of the art. Other than alignment, an LHT frame is not necesarilly any worse than a 4 grand frame. The one reason to get a custom right away is fit. If you can't be readily accomodated in a stock bike, custom it is. That said, the pros in combination with their clients don't always get that right either.

Of course if cost was no object you could start with a sensible custom, wouldn't hurt anything. But if you like to buy stuff, you will end up somewhere different by the time you sort it all out.

staehpj1

+1

I'd use the same tent as I use for backpacking unless you are going super light when backpacking.

I am inclined to pack as carefully with regard to weight for a bike tour as I would for backpacking. Some of the compromises may be different, but weight is still important.