Hi.

I'm finishing my studies in 10 weeks and want to get the hell out of this place. I've done a lot of road racing and enduro MTB racing (24 solos) before. But not much touring other than putting slicks onto my single speed MTB and riding a few hundred kms to races. I'm pretty comfortable riding 200km+ in a day, so the engine is not a problem, what I need is a vehicle for proper touring.

I don't do things by half. I want to ride from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego starting in may/june 2011.

This is a tentative build list for my bike. I have underlined the things that I am unsure about.

Frameset: Surly LHT
Headset: King
Wheels: xt/com/mavic open pro CD 36h/36h
Tyres: Marathon plus 1.5in w/ a 28c folding spare.
Stem: 3t ARX
Bars: 3t ergosum pro
Brakes: No idea. Cantis of some sort. What are good and cheap?
Saddle: selle san marco concor light (not negotiable for me)
Pedals: shimano single sided spd (forget what they're called)
Seatpin: thomson elite
cages: king stainless or ti
racks: tubus or surly
Panniers: ortlieb (mostly because they come in blue, which is pretty and inspiring)
Bartape: lizard skins
shifters: DA 9-speed bar end or down tube don't want sti's, what's better?
Cranks/bb: deore w/ middleburn slickshift/hardcoat chainrings I notice a tendancy towards square taper. Is there any benefit to this, or is it just a retro touring thing? I prefer external bbs as they're more easily serviced, and more common.
cassette: slx 11-34
rd: xt long cage
fd: ultegra triple


Also, i'm from Australia. We have plenty of stuff that can kill you, but bears freak me out. Can anyone recommend a book about not getting eaten by bears? Should I learn how to use a gun?

Instead of going with mavic open pro rims, I would probably get mavic A 719.
I've used tubus racks and they've worked fine for me and I haven't ever heard anything bad about them.
I'd definitely use ortlieb because they are waterproof and not as expensive as arkel.
Downtube and bar end shifters are basically the same thing, just mounted in different spots. I prefer bar end
If you are worried about bars, you could get some bear spray

No need. You'll be fine in bars. Bears never go in them. (Unless you mean sushi bars!)

Sounds like a good build. Shimano br550 are the best cantis that I've used. I'd go with bar end shifters over DTs, they are much easier to use, especially on bigger frames.

Absolutely. Not for bears of course -- you'd almost certainly miss if you tried to shoot one with a handgun. They're terribly fast and your head will be ripped off before you unholster.

But it's always good to know how to use a gun. You might want to hold up a liquor store if you start running low on cash.

Do you just not like brifters or are you buying into the "they'll break as soon as you're out of sight of the bike shop" theories?

If the latter, just carry a spare set of DT shifters in your Ortlieb. They couldn't weigh 5 ounces and take up no room. No sense denying yourself the pleasures of Brifters on the off chance they might break.

Of course, if you just don't like brifters, then bar ends or DTs, whichever you prefer.

This is the book you want for bears:

https://books.google.com/books?id=gFl...page&q&f=false

Square taper is still plenty common, particularly when you get out in the sticks. No particular reason otherwise.

+1 on the Mavic A719. Alternately, consider going with the 26" LHT vs. the 700c, since 26" would presumably be stronger, and replacement parts are supposedly more common in South America.

Thanks for your help so far everyone. In response:

1) I really like the CD coating with rim brakes when it gets wet. I only weigh 65kg, and travel really light (I travelled for 4 months out of a 15 litre daypack) Couldn't imagine i'd need more than 20-25kg of stuff, tent, camping gear and 3-4 litres of water included. I might go for a heavier rim on the rear.

2) Nothing against brifters. Trying to keep it light and simple, and save a bit of cash. I road race, and I feel pretty bad everytime I ditch it in a criterium and kill a $300-400 set of levers. It's not like i'll be needing to slam it into the 11t coming onto a straight. Simple = better.

3) Probably just use external bb cranks. They're fine, last a long time, I'm not gonna take a bb puller with me, nor a spare ST BB, but a small alloy external BB tool should pack pretty easily.

4) Thanks for the link to the book on bears. The idea of them scares me a lot, I guess.

Next question:

V-brakes or canti's? discuss please. Canti's just seem like outmoded technology, v-brakes somewhat less so, especially to me, having mostly ridden disc brake bikes. Other than being retro-tastic, why don't more people use v-brakes?

I have to question the idea of cheap brakes on a bike with a Chris King headset... Brakes are very geometry specific, if one is talking about cantis. So best thing is to look at the brakes the OEM puts on the complete bike, then either use those, or check around for a brake with identical geometry but better quality or results.

I wouldn't save weight on a folding spare in the wrong size. You could end up riding half your tour on that thing.

I wouldn't use those bars, get something wider for touring, and why have a bar that is specialized for brakes you aren't using. Spend some time at touring sites like Rivbike.

A lot of people do like san marco. Don't know that model, but just remember touring is totally different from racing as far as the time spent in the saddle, and the posture.

Get a square end Phil BB and you can ride your route 3 times before it needs service. Get a good triple like the Sugino. Square end is preferred in some non-shimano dependant circles. It may be easier to find in the third world.

Guns are a good thing, but you won`t realistically be allowed to carry one either at all in most SA countries, or without a mountain of paperwork in the US and Canada. Handguns are not great for the griz and polar bear sized stuff, but they have been used for stops over an over. More than enough for blacks. Way better than bare hands. But mostly only the US lets people carry them, and some of the stickiest places like cali are on your route. Your chance of getting a carry permit is really low. That said, get some bear spray, and don`t worry about it. Actually bear spray can be a problem at international borders. I live on property with black bears, in a province with lots of black bears, never seen one. Out west in the mountains I have seen them. I`m kinda divided on the issue. Being able to protect yourself would be a good thing. The need to protect yourself is extremely remote in most area. I wouldn't worry.

You will get arguments on Vs vs Cantis, realistically they both work fine, so just make a choice. The knock on Vs is that they don't work with real road brakes, you either need the awkward 287s, or the worse travel agents. But people will use them. The other knock is they are more adjustment dependant, particularly if you get a damaged wheel. Cantis work, and used to be regarded as insanely strong brakes. Like any rim brake, they are not as good when wet, on long descents, be sure to get appropriate rubber, buy the rims we tell you too since they will work better etc...

There is no reason to use brifters if you don't think you need them. Some of us old guys are not being dewy eyed about this stuff, I have only had one bike with an 8 speed, or a cassette. To the extent that older stuff doesn't bother me and is simpler and more rugged (and these days available in really nice versions we couldn't have imagined, like Paul for brakes Phil for hubs) I am better off using it. If I grew up on brifters and 23 speed cassettes , I would doubtless feel naked out there without them. But if you don`t need them, then you can profit from the benefits of the older stuff, of which there are a few. Like not needing to order a chain from half a world away.

If you are as tough as you say you are, and why wouldn't you be, then go for the heavier wheels. I am not tough and get by hauling them. I also pack really light. Some stuff may break, other stuff will break, rims are the single weakest link on most bikes, of the things that are somewhat hard to repair, and will actually stop you. Imagine a bear is chasing you, you don`t want to have to worry about the rims.

By the way, if you want to spend CK or Thompson money on something, make it your rear hub. Cassette hubs need the royal treatment if anything does.

1. Cantis work with standard drop brake levers, whereas v-brakes typically require an adapter or v-brake-specific drop brake levers. If you build from scratch, this should not constrain you.
2. V-brakes might interfere with some types of rear racks and rear-rack loads. This is not an insurmountable issue, you just have to think a little about how everything is supposed to work together.
3. Once you have the cantis dialed in, cantis work reasonably well with the types of wheels and tires that tourists typically use and the types of loads and conditions that tourists typically encounter. There are reasons to favor v-brakes, but it's not as if a v-brake-based brake system is heads and shoulders safer than a canti-based brake system.
4. Some people just like how their favorite cantis work.

+1

The only thing I would add is that there is a problem with the levers you need to use with Vs on drops. Levers like the 287, have a lower pivot point. This doesn't hurt the use of the levers when operated from the drops, but most commonly people operate these levers from the hoods. From that position they are not optimal. These levers have to have the same cable pull as MTB motorcycle like levers, and those are just a different geometry than road levers. The other thing is that the 287 lever is not everyone's favorite for comfort, even when not braking. travel agents do work, but they are a kluge, so it really doesn't make sense to go that route unless one has a reason line they were free and allowed one to use free brakes, or they were the only way to get a fit with a certain rack or whatever. There is now a tektro lever that is cheaper and probably more comfortable to ride since tektro levers are comfortable generally. But it would still have the pivot problem with it.

Thanks again. Thoughts:

1) I understand the cable pull issues, but there are plenty of levers for both. Paul brakes look nice, i've had a bike with shimano v-brakes, also work fine. plenty of cx mates use avid shorty ultimates and trps, which are OTT for a bike like this, but i'd happily put avid short 6's or something similar on.

2) points taken on rims. i'll eat my weight-weenieness and get the heavy ones.

3) the 3t bars are staying. They're basically a girly/old man bar, short drop, nice to hold on top. I'm used to the more agressive rotundos. I like the way 3t stuff looks, it's cheap and awesomely built.

4) King headset is staying. They come in blue, and blue is both pretty and inspirational. I already have a thomson seatpost that i'm not using, so it is also staying.

5) Saddle is staying. I dislike leather saddles. I like this saddle. Saddle choice is a no brainer for me.

6) Given that you can boot a tyre, I don't think that a folding spare is so much of a problem. Me+gear weight a lot less than a lot of road riders, and the tyres i'd use (maxxis refuse) last me 5000km on the rear of a road bike. It'd only ever be used as a spare on the front. Alternatively panaracer closers come in 1.25in and are folding. I don't see why a wire bead tyre would be necessary. They ride 700c bikes in most parts of the world i've been to. I don't think there'd be a problem getting spare tyres anywhere, even though they'd not be the best tyres, obviously.

Next question:

Hubs. I've run xt hubs for 5 years on a beater bike, never serviced them, never touched them, still running smooth. I get that a damaged cartridge hub is better than a damaged loose ball hub, but they're cheap, roll wonderfully, come in 36h, and are reliable. Any bike shop in the first world, and probably the third world too can replace and grease ball bearings, and damaged bearing surfaces aren't that big a deal... that said, what are the other options in for a not-too-expensive 36h 135mm hub?

Good cantis and good v-brakes both work. I would build it with V's if it were me. Well actually I would build it with BB7s, but that's not an option for the LHT frame.

XT hubs are pretty much the standard in touring, for the reasons you just described. You can buy better ones, but it gets expensive. Phil's for example.

Your bike is going to be great. Better than mine, and I've put 1000's of kms on mine without problems! Have fun on your tour.

"I understand the cable pull issues, but there are plenty of levers for both"

In Vs there are only 2 levers I know of, and one is widely regarded as being uncomfortable, the other is pretty untried. You probably know this, but the point is, on road brakes if you build a lever that pulls enough cable, you will eventually get to a point that the fingers are resting over the pivot point when working from the hoods, and can't apply the brakes. The V brake levers are half way there. I paid big bucks for my 287, got them out of the box, immediately thought, well that isn't going to work...


Pauls are nice, I have them on my bike, but they don't actually work any better than some other cantis. They do require less total wrenches than some others, though that is mostly the straddles. I am partial to self energizing cantis (you won't hear that too many places), any brake where the lawyers made them not sell the front brake is tops with me! I've used them for 20 years, and they are cheap on ebay.

Tire wise, it just seems to me you need to get into the touring mindset (which admittedly for some people is 28mm tires anyway). But this is my observation, when you hit the road, all you care about is keeping rolling and keeping comfortable (related issues). All the techno weanie stuff goes out the door. I like King headsets also, and they are a great choice, but it is pretty impossible that they will actually mater over 5000 miles, tires on the other hand are really expendible. Even a big fat 50 year old doesn't notice the load after about a week. I am assuming sensible stuff here, no touring with 150 pounds like one guy I saw. So the way you should think (arguably) is I either need or don't need a spare tire, and you should carry the same kind you rode in on, or you should ride 28s all the way. I blew a Schwalbe up in rural New Brunswick, never saw another touring tire for 1000K, stopped in a lot of shops, and ended up riding the ruptured case, like a 6 inch slit, or the comfort bike 700c inflatable to 60 pound tire a long way. In other words I don't like half measure, but then we all take them, so i'm not arguing with you. I just think you need to go light, but you need to also carry the stuff that goes bang. If you work your gear out, you can have both, but it tends to get expensive.

I think the most important thing one can do before the trip is try to imagine the way you will be half way through the trip. You will be operating with different concerns, and you know best what they will be.

"They ride 700c bikes in most parts of the world i've been to. I don't think there'd be a problem getting spare tyres anywhere, even though they'd not be the best tyres, obviously."


By all accounts you will find it almost impossible to get 700c stuff in Central and South America. What parts you will find will only be for racing bikes. There is no reason not to build up an LHT with 26" wheels, it will make your life so much easier.

A friend was just touring for 3 months in Mexico. A few days in she crashed in busted her front rim. She was able to get to a town close by who had some 26" rims. They rebuilt her wheel and she was on her way within a couple of days. This would not have been possible with 700c.

a 26" wheel, with Mavic's Ex 721 rim is a good combination I have a 32 hole pair, Schmidt and Rohloff hubs.

I'd also besides the LHT look at Bruce Gordon's touring bikes and his racks
I have a 20year old set of Bruce's racks He got a Taiwan contractor to build a lower price frame to his specifications,

Has a version of the front lowrider to go on LHTs too.

2 bikes one has above racks , the other has Tubus, was a Koga Factory build ergo/logo models paired.

Myself I threw a steel bead tire over the rear rack load, I had a casing tear right by the bead wire
and so the spare got used.

For an ambitious trip like Alaska to Usuaia, bring a spare tire at least..

"she was on her way within a couple of days"

That is the real life, a good breakdown is only a few days delay... I totally agree with the 26 in wheels, my new bike is Rohloff and 26in, though how long it will be till I get around to it... I have the expensive parts. In fact, funny story, getting the spokes for this baby was an international custom order from Canada. I`ve been waiting a year. Long story.

Presuming you don`t want a Gordon Custom, their nice stock bike frame is 700c... For reasonable bucks, you could get a Thorn, they make derailleur bike frames also. Shipping to US or Canada is reasonable, so maybe OZ wouldn`t be too bad. Also, they will send stuff anywhere in the world to bail out a bro on one of their bikes. Surly is a pretend touring company in comparison.

I would recommend reading all of Nancy SVs posts on gear from her version of the americas trip. She has been through some interesting equipment challenges. It is interesting the problems long term tourists get into, it is a different world from the few weeks or months folks.

https://www.bikeforums.net/search.php?searchid=945593

I would also consider Velocity Dyad rims. Just as good if not better than A719s, cheaper, and lighter.

I'm not getting a 26in bike. They ride horribly, look silly and anything that'll crack a 36h 26in rim will 99% break a heavy 36h 700c rim. I weigh 65kg (140lb) and shouldn't need more than 20-25kg of stuff. 80-90kg is a lot.

Half of the trip will be in North America, where spares are common.

Half of the trip will be in South America, where, as far as people have stated, 700c tyres are available, if only 'racing' tyres. I'd be more than ok to use one in a pinch. To get to that stage i'd have to (1) destroy 2 schwalbe marathon plus tyres beyond what they can be booted. (2) destroy 1 or 2 spare tyres.

So i'd have to taco or crack a rim. I don't weigh much (65kg - 140lb), have never broken an alloy rim (even sub 400g ones) and they're is 35c worth of tyre protecting any hits, regardless. They'll be 2200G+ wheels (ie, very strong). If it does so happen that I end up out of luck in a place where I can't find a spare 700c wheel, I could get to a major city, stay in a hotel and mail order a new wheel. Wiggle, CRC and starbike get to everywhere that I have ordered from within a week. 26in tubes fit in 700c wheels, so that's not a problem either.

So yeah, not willing to ride a frankenbike for 6-9-12 months just because I might be a bit further, and a few hundred dollars away from parts than I otherwise would be.

You gotta do what you gotta do, but for much of the world, 26" wheels are the norm for touring bikes, and in the rest, many of the very best bikes are custom built that way. Also, about half your riding in NA will be in areas where bike shops are not well stocked at all. Canada is a relative wasteland. Then you will go through areas that are biking nirvana, for a day or two, then you drop off the end of the world. But hey, it isn't as though you currently live in a place any different...

Seriously the next post I read after leaving here was number 21 here:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-it-Make-Sense

I remember reading when she took that flight...

Since you are building up the frame, you COULD put a disc fork on it. Since you already know the advantages of discs, an Avid BB7 (Road or MTB depending on levers), might be good for you. Even at your light weight, the extra stopping power on the front might come in handy on steep downhills. As far as V/canti, I prefer V brake with Brake Booster. I have road style levers on my touring bike, and so use a 'gasp' Travel Agent. In spite of what you may hear, it was not hard to set up, and works very well. Gives me fine modulation and braking power.

For cranks, I use XT Hollowtech with 22/35/48 rings. External bearings, with A520 pedals (spd single sided). XTR RD with 11-34 SRAM cassette. Plenty low gears for towing my trailer uphill, and plenty of stopping power for the downhills.

I won't try to talk you into trying a Brooks, but you might consider a Thudbuster seatpost. Takes a lot of the jarring out of rough roads.

That's a fair point in the linked post.

Yeah, i'm fine staying somewhere to wait for parts if I buckle a rim, or whatever. This will probably involve a crash, so I imagine that i'd be more than fine with a bit off time off the bike.

I spoke to the (very good) travel insurer that I use today and explained the bike riding/broken parts thing.

All parts, including shipping, that have to be replaced, and accomodation while awaiting repairs are covered under their policy. This excludes wear and tear. This is covered under the 'damaged/stolen luggage clause.

So yeah, reasons to buy a poor handling (but perhaps stronger) bike are seeming less and less.

FWIW, i've ridden 700c bikes in China, Japan, Vietnam and Indonesia. Sure, S.A. could be different, but I think "most of the world" is probably a bit of an exaggeration, and as I have said, my total weight including gear will be less than a lot of those in the 'old men in lycra on carbon tubbies' crowd. so it isn't like a wheel from a third world bike couldn't be spaced and re-axled to fit a 135mm rear end and keep me going.

On that note. Thanks again to everyone for their advice and opinions. I've had my questions answered and made my mind up. Unless anyone has any profound insight to add, I think we can leave this thread to be.


Cheers.