Bekologist

Trangia or Brasslite are the go tos for alcohol stoves, or make your own. i like a more robust and slightly heavier stove than a pop can., so carry a Trangia burner and a very small collapsible tripod pot support.


here's my stove burner and pot support, and bic lighter for comparison. it's a tiny Trangia.

wildergeek

I LOVE Trangia stoves! In the time it takes by backpacking buddies to set up their fiddly MSR stoves, I'm already cooking. The Trangias work well (sometimes better) in the wind if you get a set with the integral windscreen, they are completely silent compared to any compressed fuel stove and the alcohol fuel is a renewable resource. No moving parts. Nothing to break. No spare parts kit full of o-rings, jets, etc. Just a dead-simple alcohol burner and a windscreen.

Sadly, Trangia stoves seem to be more popular in Europe and aren't easy to find here in the U.S. where everyone seems to want a rocket engine for cooking.

zeppinger

Check out youtube. All the stove test are done by boil time. WHO CARES! The trangia always loses because it takes an extra minute or two to boil. Why is everyone in such a big hurry when they are camping?

I saw this video that they call "Ultimate camping stove shootout." These idiots dont even know how to use the stove. They give it, and another alchohol stove a FAIL because they put the pot directly on the burner, NO POT SUPPORT, and then wonder why the flame went out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE2DohWVdMk

wildergeek

It's the result of 30 years of the outdoor industry marketing engine convincing people that they need mountaineering and extreme gear for ordinary, everyday use. After drinking the kool-aid for 20+ years, I finally snapped out of it and bought low cost backpacking gear that I actually prefer over the mega-expensive gear I bought a few years ago. Much of this inexpensive gear has followed me over to bicycle touring.

cyccommute 

While isobutane and propane are different gases, their heat value is nearly identical (propane has a slightly higher heating value). You can use both interchangeably without worry. I've used a Primus Technotrail for ages. It's a good stove and has it's own igniter which is worth it's weight in gold. I also have a Primus Omnistove which will burn almost anything. It's heavier and bulkier but it does give piece of mind when touring if you happen to run out of canister gas. Given my experiences this spring with the availability of canisters at HellMart across Kansas, OK, Arkansas and Louisiana, I don't think that is as much of a concern as it has been in the past.

cyccommute 

Sorry but from a purely physical chemistry standpoint, alcohol is a poor fuel choice. Pound for pound, alcohols just don't measure up to alkane gases. The heat content of most alkane gases (methane, ethane, propane and butane) is around the same as gasoline on a BTU/lb basis or 21000 BTU/lb. Any alcohol you can get readily like methanol (9800 BTU/lb), ethanol (12,000 BTU/lb) or isopropanol (14,000 BTU/lb) falls far short of those kinds of heat content. Less heat means you have to use more to do the same job. Using more means you have to obtain and carry more. Using more means you have to have more flammable liquid around in a pool somewhere to spill and cause potential harm.

People report boil time because that is one uniform measure of how efficient the stove is. If you can boil water faster, you have more heat to work with.

stretch1

https://www.traildesigns.com/caldera-cone.html
I have one of these utilizing a 2 cup pot. If there is little chance you will be heating or cooking food with it, take a look at the caldera keg.
I'm very happy with mine.

djb

have used the whisperlite for many years, it works for my needs, although gets a bit sooty, so it was always put in a plastic bag after cooling and stored in my pot. In europe used the blue-sealed propane thingee stoves that in France anyway, were very easy to find in stores. Cleaner, handy on and off (no preheat procedure, which doesnt bother me much anyway withthe whiisperlite) but these are easier. I didnt worry too much about throwing away the empty ones, I mean, we are travelling by bike here, so are pretty low footprint.

the International, being able to use unleaded is great, there are always gas stations around.

the comments on stableness, and physical size are pretty important, just because we are usually cooking on the ground, and over time I got reaally aware of keeping space and weight down for bike touring.

eofelis 

+1 on the Esbit tablet stove!

I just got one this year to take on a 5 day backcountry (backpack) trip into the Grand Canyon. I only boiled water for tea and dehydrated meals.

I also have MSR Dragonfly and Whisperlite stoves. I may use them again someday!

Thulsadoom

I've got one of those regular Coleman one-burner propane stoves. I removed the hardware that was supposed to hold the pan and fashioned a lighter, smaller triangle made of aluminum to rest pans on and the stove weighs very llittle. It's only about $20-$25 bucks at a Wallys.

Those green propane canisters are not light, so weight weenies don't like them. But they are available anywhere and they burn for a solid 8-10 hours or more. I've owned stoves that had smaller and lighter canisters but I was always looking for new ones because they ran out all the time.

Propane burns very efficiently and can handle a breeze with ease while continuing to burn. I've had stoves that would blow out very easily.

Bekologist

yes. from a purely physical chemistry standpoint, I personally think its great cycocommute has figured out energy density of fuels.

As to advice what stove to bring along bike touring, energy density of fuels is at the very bottom of my list, unless I am travelling a week into the backcountry. ypical tours across the USA on paved roads, bosh. a total non issue compared to more important issues about stove and fuel choice like ease of use and the ready availability of alternate fuel choices.

Sure a whisperlite internationale or primus multifuel stove might be a good choice traveling across Uzbekistan! but for your more mundane tours there are nicer choices. there is NO WAY I would pack a green propane canister stove on a bike tour! but to each his own, wow!

and, if you drink, you can run an alcohol stove on 151 rum. it's expensive, but you always have the option to eat a cold dinner!

Gus Riley

I use the COLEMAN Exponent FYRESTORM SS Multi-fuel Stove. It uses either cannister or liquid. Best of both worlds? It gives me the flexibility of both fuel types. It truly is a "Multi-fuel" stove.

Cue

Well, yeah, but I wonder if there's any other kind of fuel besides alcohol for alcohol stoves?

coldfeet

For those considering a trangia or similar, stumbled across a neat tip for extended burn times, add 2 teaspoons of water! From what I've read, this about doubles burn time. Obviously, it's going to lower the heat too. But if you're say, cookings eggs or sausages, this might be useful.

I HAVE NOT TRIED THIS! I simply read about it, but will be trying it myself at some point.

cyccommute 

No! Absolutely do not burn any other kind of fuel in a mass burn stove like a Trangia or pop can stove (same principle). The same thing that makes them able to burn a pool of fuel...i.e. low heat value, lower temperature and higher flash point... makes them incredible dangerous to burn with a fuel that burns hotter with a higher fuel value and lower flash point. Think BOOOM! Putting white gas in a pop can stove makes for a very hot, very unpredictable flame and the potential for a disaster is just too high. Stick with alcohol if you are going to use these kinds of stoves.

cyccommute 

'Green propane canister'? I'm not, nor is anyone else, talking about using a 2 burner Coleman style stove while on tour. That's just silly. They don't even work with small back packing stoves. If you don't know (which I find rather puzzling), the canisters for backpacking stoves are generally 8 oz fuel canisters like this one

markf

[QUOTE=cyccommute;11414714]'Green propane canister'? I'm not, nor is anyone else, talking about using a 2 burner Coleman style stove while on tour. That's just silly. They don't even work with small back packing stoves. If you don't know (which I find rather puzzling), the canisters for backpacking stoves are generally 8 oz fuel canisters like this one

Coleman makes a single burner propane stove that runs on the big green 16.4 oz. propane cartridges. I think that's what Bekologist is referring to.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-1-...e-Stove/871709

Too heavy and bulky for self propelled travel, and not worth packing for car camping. Lots of people try them because they are cheap.

Bekologist

are you even reading the thread, stuart? ( I'll let you in on a secret, stuart- I DO know about gas stoves of all kinds - MSR has GIVEN me multiple stoves including a PocketRocket. I still would not bring a pocket rocket bike touring! )

I'm sorry but thulsadoom was retelling his use of the large, heavy green propanes common at cheap mega store outdoor sections. there are single burners that attach to the tops of these.

I wouldn't be referring to them except as a mistake for bike touring but YMMV.

for all the dis stuart is giving alcohol stoves, alcohol stoves are VERY COMMON overseas, common with bike tourers and the ultralite backpacking crowd. Anyone grousing about BTU values of fuel is really overthinking a very simple, reliable stove system.
alcohol stoves burn alcohol, which you can buy at a drugstore, a gas station, a hardware store, a grocery store, just about anyplace. You can burn everclear or 151 rum, paint thinner-check the label!-, rubbing alcohol and HEET.

NeilGunton

I've been really getting into the Trangia alcohol stoves lately. What I like is their simplicity - no moving parts, no pumping, no pressurized containers, no flare-ups, no jet-engine noise, and very quick to start. From most accounts, alcohol in some form or other is very easy to find in most places, though I haven't confirmed that for myself on tour yet. The only downside for me is that the Trangia simmer ring is a little fiddly to use, though I am getting better.

I used, and thought I liked, the MSR Dragonfly stove for years. But on my tour in 2008 I had some problems with it going out unaccountably while I was cooking. The thing was clean, and pumped up and everything seemed to be working, but it just kept on going out. I have no idea why. It was pretty irritating. I have also heard quite a few accounts of people breaking the plastic pump. Also, look at the number of little bits and pieces in the maintenance kit - it's a little scary if you're in the middle of nowhere, frankly, to have something that fiddly.

I don't know what I would take if I was going somewhere really remote like Outer Mongolia or any of the 'Stans, but so far I have to say the little Trangia has won my heart. I recently tried the 27-8 UL/HA, but didn't find the "Hardanodized" (they run it into one word like that in the manual) to be very non-stick at all. I think the 27-5 UL would probably be better for my purposes, since it is true non-stick, and I have found that one of the most important aspects of a pan, for me personally, is that food not stick to it when cooking. I hate cleaning up food that has burned into the pan.

The only thing about the 27 and 25 series of Trangia sets, as far as I can tell, is that the windscreen, while very cool in concept, seems to restrict what sizes of pans you can use. You pretty much have to use the pan that comes with the set, or one of similar size. You can't easily use a larger one, like for example the older MSR Blacklite non-stick which I have, since it doesn't fit inside the windscreen. And another thing that struck me was that you have to reach down into the windscreen in order to do things like adjust the simmer ring - and it's very hot in there after a while, which makes it a little tricky.

I have the Clickstand for the Trangia, and while it seems to work ok I don't like the windscreen that comes with it - like the Trangia 25/27, it restricts you to a certain size pot. I like a bit more flexibility.

I am going to be trying out the Trangia Westwind next. This is such a simple concept - three pieces of interlocking aluminum makes up the stand. Then I'm going to make my own windscreen, either out of thick foil, or a disposable baking pan, or maybe aluminum flashing (to be decided). The thing I like about this setup is that you can access the simmer ring very easily right from the side of the stove, no reaching down into a hot area from above. With a home-made windscreen it should end up very light, small and flexible, working with any pot or pan.

Neil

Bekologist

That's the one I've been running with, the tripod trangia. picture at top of page.

zeppinger

Maybe one day they will come out with a stove that runs on plutonium that has an even higher heat output per gram of fuel!

Just kidding of course. High output and fuel density are not the only criteria for a good stove. There is reliability, ease of use, pleasure of use (no jet noises), ect...

I prefer to carry extra alcohol rather than an expensive stove with a bunch of stuff that cold go wrong. True that is more flammable chemicals to have on the bike, though not very much more, but alcohol is not explosive in the same way that gasoline or butane is. If you were to spill some alcohol on say, your clothes or in your panniers, it would evaporate and leave little trace of smell. Try that with petrol!

Bekologist

Yep, and the first night you can wow your friends by pretending you have a stove that 'burns water' when you add a little water on the top of your trangia filled with alcohol. Gets 'em every time!

cyccommute 

You'd have to search far and wide to find a stove that is unreliable and hard to use. I've used butane stoves, liquid fuel and even toyed with pop can stoves. Of the three, the pop can is what I'd call the most unreliable...and dangerous. First there's you have to judge how much fuel you are going to need. If you judge wrong and end up with too much fuel which you either have to burn off (waste it) or you have to cool it and pour it back in the bottle...probably wasting almost as much as if you just burned it off. If you judge wrong and end up with too little fuel, you are really in a bad spot. Pouring volatile liquids into hot stoves places you in danger of a real explosion. You have a cloud of vapor hanging around a hot stove and you are going to try to reignite the stove. At the very least you could end up with singed hair. At the very most...

Pressurized liquid fuel stoves are slightly hazardous because you have to preheat the fuel to vaporize it. This means you have a small pool of burning fuel for about a minute before the stove can really start to burn. But the pool of fuel is small - <5 ml - while the main body of the fuel is safely contained. Fuel addition to the stove during burning is controlled and the possibility of a spill while the stove is hot is almost zero...although if one were determined, you could unscrew the pump and pour the liquid all over.

Butane can be explosive but 8 oz of gas isn't going to pose too much of an explosion risk because the gas dissipates quickly. And, as with the pressurized liquid fuel stove, you'd have to be very determined to cause yourself harm.

I don't use gasoline in liquid fuel stoves because I know the dangers of gasoline. I'd use other fuels long before I'd use gasoline...including a wood fire. Just the hazard of putting gasoline in a MSR fuel bottle is enough to give me the willies. The fuels I would use...naphtha, white gas, mineral spirits, etc...have a higher flash point than gasoline and are safer. They also evaporate cleanly if you do spill them and won't leave any more residual odor than any alcohol.

cyccommute 

More physical chemisty. Adding water to alcohol makes it burn longer by reducing the burning temperature of the fuel. You have water that you have to vaporize in the fuel which sucks a lot of heat out of the fuel. Not necessarily the way you want to go with a low heat fuel.

cyccommute 

Paint thinner is not alcohol based. Shellac thinner is but paint thinner is usually mineral spirits which should never be burned in alcohol fuel stoves. Other items that may be used as "paint thinner" are acetone, mineral turpentine (turps), true turpentine, naphtha, toluene, white spirit, xylene, or methyl ethyl ketone (MEK). Not a single one of those would be appropriate for a mass burning stove like an alcohol stove. Each burns far too hot and could be an explosion hazard even upon ignition due to extremely low flash points.