Pedals
 

On a touring bike, do you keep the toe clips that came with the bike, or change your pedals over to clipless? What are the advantages/disadvantages to each?

I use Shimano PDM324 Multi-Purpose pedals ... platform on one side, SPD clipless on the other. The best of both worlds.

The advantage to having your feet attached to the pedal (clip less bindings or toe clips) is that it allows you to "pedal in circles," meaning that you can apply force to the cranks throughout the pedal stroke and not just on the down stroke as you would do with regular pedals.

If you're going to be clipped in, most people like the clipless pedals that act similar to ski bindings because you can quickly step in and twist out instead of having to reach down and tighten a strap. The term "clipless" here can be confusing because you're actually clipped in, but it really means you are not using an old style cage and strap around the foot.

The disadvantage to being clipped in is the cost of the pedals and need for cycling shoes with special cleats for the clips. That also means walking around in cycling shoes off the bike, which may or may not be an issue. If it is an issue, there are more "walk friendly" shoes available. The downside to many of those is that they flex, which is good for walking, but less efficient for cycling. Another disadvantage is that there is a bit of a learning curve to getting out of the clips and it's not uncommon for new users to fall over at stoplights. :p

The pedals that Machka refers to are an excellent way to have both styles in one pedal. I use something similar on a bike for around town.

I just got a simiilar one, the A530. They're easier to service, and have a flat bottom instead of a cage which people say is more comfortable while riding in soft-soled shoes. Haven't tried both so I wouldn't know really. The nice thing about the PDM324 is that you can add proper pedal reflectors.
I still need to work on my pedal flipping technique though :D

I used to use double sided pedals and they are truely the best of both worlds. I recently tried MKS Lambdas and love them, they worked out well on my recent weeek long rail/trail ride.

I still pretty much ride old school pedals and toe clips. The current pedals on my touring bike are the MKS Sylvan road pedals with leather covered toe clips. I use the MKS Sylvan Touring pedals on my city bike with half clips. For shoes I use a stiff soled shoe when touring, but it is still comfortable to walk in.

Aaron :)

I have MKS GR9 pedals with toe-clips... really don't want to take two pairs of shoes - I ride and walk in regular running shoes.

The double sided pedals make sense if you go clipless, for when flip-flop or barefoot riding is called for :)

I'm liking this idea.

I do neither: I use platform pedals without clips. I used to use Power Grips but they don't work well with some of the shoes I now like to cycle in. For my tour this summer I used MKS Promenade EZ quick-release touring pedals on my folding bike; they're not terribly grippy, but they grip well enough to keep my feet secure. On my bike at home, I use touring cage pedals with somewhat more aggressive spikes, though I have used MKS Lambda (AKA Grip King) pedals in the past and may give them another try.

I've used platforms and sneakers or closed-toe sandals on rides up to 200K. If my feet were less oddly shaped I might use clipless pedals and shoes but I've never found a pair of cycling shoes that really fits me well; the ones I have tried end up leaving my feet numb in places. I did a brisk 35-mile ride Friday with a couple of guys who were using clipless, and I didn't have any problem keeping up with them. I was wearing Keen Newport H2 sandals, which grip the pedals well.

I have some nice toe clip pedals I assembled from various sources,
they didn't come with the bike, per se.
I have a tendency to build up a bike from the Bare frame..
or tear down and rebuild and change details..


I have a Pedal wrench, it lets me change pedals in a couple minutes ..

My Brompton's folding pedal is an interesting design .. one big bearing..
[it needs a 24mm socket wrench]

Have some BMX 9/16" pedals on a couple bikes ..

Toured for months on Campag Quill clip and strap pedals. Fisher doubled toeclips ..
shoe has a slot in the sole, so straps did not need to be tight.

Own some Spud pedals , Time Atac alium,

Keen and Shimano Spud sandals, and TO 92 touring,
spud shoes sole without being knobby ..
Yadda Yadda

since getting Shimano spd pedals and shoes in 92 I think, I cant go back.
When touring with lots of weight on a bike, clipless pedals make climbing easier (I have found that you can climb in one gear higher vs regular pedals) and of course you dont have to mess with tightening and loosening a strap, so safer as well. Overall, just improves pedalling efficiency as already stated.

My first ones were some Shimano spd model, not the top one, the one below, cost $80 or something. I am seriously impressed with their build quality and engineering as these same 18 yr old pedals are still in use by my wife. This summer she decided to try clipless, got some shoes and I passed on these oldies that amazingly enough are still turning well, not too much pull-push movement and not crunchy by any means. I bought some new 520s--$50 how can you go wrong?
My old ones were never used for serious mtn biking, ie, mud et al, so were nearly always on the road, touring and commuting. I kept them clean, lubricated, clean them after rainy days by pushing a rag through and back and forthing to get the gunk off the springs etc. But were never taken apart and insides never regreased--yes they are at the end of their lives, very easy to click out of (perfect for my wife, who was unsure she would take to clipless) but I have had regular pedals get all crappy bearing wise in much less time, even with teardowns-and even if they were probably so so quality pedals, the longevity of the old shimanos is impressive.

What made me hesitate is how hard that model is to service, needing a special set of two tools that Shimano sells for 80$+

I've used simple spiked platform, BMX style, for the last week. Took some time getting used to, coming from the clipless world, about 2-3 commuting runs. Are clipless necessary: no. Are they useful: yes, especially while climbing or accelerating when we really can pull hard on the pedals.

What service do they need? I rode my first pair of them in all sorts of conditions for 2 years before they were stolen and they didn't need any service in that time.

and mine for 18 years...only exterior cleaning...

my experience with both is that the A530 are too narrow for pedaling with regular shoes on the platform and with the 324 there's better support outboard on the ball of the foot. I had them both on folding bikes used in a marine environment and for some reason the A530 have a chromed spring that rusted horribly while the regular steel spring on the 324 didn't. That said if most of your riding is with clipless pedals and your bike has a low bb. the A530 are less likely to scrape while pedaling through a corner. For riding with wide sneakers I'd rather use 324, with cleats it does't matter.

I like Speedplay Frogs. There is a lot of float so your feet can move around a lot. Only downside is that the cleats are a little tempramental, they get clogged with mud easily.

When I was touring in South America I used the MKS Touring Lite platform pedals with regular running shoes. They were fantastic because in SA I was doing a lot of touring on and off the bike checking out all the sites. Cycling with platform pedals meant I only had to carry one pair of shoes. I also didn't feel I was missing out on the efficiency of being clipped in because a lot of the roads were very loose gravel roads and there was no way I'd want to be clipped in.

When I flew up to Canada from SA to do my cross Canada ride I knew I'd be on pavement the entire time so swapped out to clipless pedals and loved them. They're so much nicer to ride in and you feel so much more powerful and can spin faster and pretty much do everything better. At the start I carried my cycling shoes and off bike shoes but in Canada I found I was not doing any off bike site seeing so sent the off bike shoes home. No regrets.

Just this summer I went back to toeclips. there is really little need for expensive pedal systems and shoes. I don't know anyone who actually pedals in circles and toeclips hold my foot to the pedals well enough in the unlikely event that I want to pedal on the upstroke. I bought a pair of pedals with clips and straps at my LBS for $10. Yep, $10. They are lighter than my old shiimano clipless and my Look clipless. Now I can ride in any kind of footwear and walk with ease. I've even cycled in Crocs for short distances. My next experiment will be to remove the straps and just go with the clips. Many tourers use no straps or clips at all, just platform pedals. I've never felt any foot discomfort even at distance of 50 and 60 miles. I generally cycle in my crosstrainers or running shoes, but I like sandals as well. Whatever is simple and comfortable. I got tired of clipping in and twisting out.

It's all about pull back at 7:30. With clips my feet come right out.

Most tourists who use toe clips never tighten the straps. This makes entry and exit very quick and easy. I can get my foot onto the ground during a slide on steep gravel and can get my foot back into the clips every time without looking.
The usual footwear would be a lightweight trekking shoes, the sole is stiff enough for touring use. You need racing stiffness in the shoe if you are going to apply racing force, something I never do.
Expedition tourists heading far from bike shops should be aware of clipless failure modes:
worn cleat- failure to exit.
cracked sole- failure to enter pedal.

It turns out this is incorrect. When using clips, you do NOT apply any force on the upstroke.

Researchers are now using power meters built into the actual pedal to analyze the pedal stroke. An excerpt of some info is available here: http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...yclists_137556

I still prefer using clipless pedals, as I prefer the ride feel. At the moment though I am not quite convinced that clipping in provides nearly as big a benefit as is presumed.


Not really; slapping a pair of cleats on your feet doesn't magically improve your pedal stroke. You'd probably still need to engage in a variety of drills and practices to smooth things out.

Your disadvantages are pretty minor. Pedals are very cheap. A set of Shimano clipless mountain bike pedals can be had for around $40. You can find others for much, much less. Shoes aren't all that expensive even compared to regular walking shoes. Mountain bike shoes are every bit as stiff as road bike shoes and you can walk in them...sometimes for miles:innocent:

One of the huge advantages of clipless...or clips for that matter...is that you feet are attached to the bike. Hitting a pothole at 30 mph and having your feet slip off pedals is far more frightening than falling over...at slow speed...with your feet still attached to the bike.


My wife tried the A520 after using M520 (2 sided mountain bike pedals) and hated them. She didn't like flipping them up at each stop. She's not all that thrilled about clipless anyway...she's crashed a couple of times but who hasn't:rolleyes:...but they seem to be growing on her.

Double-sided SPD or SPD clones with SIDI Dominator shoes. Yes, they cost real money, but they last forever. I've had my SIDIs since '97 and the interiors still don't show wear. Easy to walk in, quick to clip in, very efficient. For hiking, you'll have to carry a second pair of shoes, but you should be able to do that and still stay close to 20 lbs.

While it's true that riders don't normally pull up on the backstroke, we do sometimes, and sometimes pull up hard. Most efficient riders unweight the pedal on the backstroke. But mostly the difference with toe clips or clipless is that you can push forward at the top of the stroke and pull back at the bottom. It was a revelation when I got my first bike with toe clips in '63. I was turbine-powered! Clipless is even better and doesn't cut off the circulation in your feet. Much warmer and more comfortable.

I think you will find that some people prefer SPD type clipless, some prefer toe clips and some prefer plain pedals. The M324 (I have this on my foldup bike) gives you all options as do some of the others that have clipless on one side and plain on the other. On my touring bikes I have Ritchey V4 black MTB type pedals with springs set very loose for easy exit.

You will have to decide which you prefer. My only suggestion is to avoid the clipless type shoes that are hard to walk in. In other words, try out the shoes before you decide which pedals you want.

I'm old school and still have clips/straps on all my bikes. Part of it is economic: switching them all over would cost a fortune (three sets on the triplet, two on the tandem, and four single bikes between my wife and I). But more than that, I don't have a big reason to. I've tried clipless. Indeed, I still have them in my parts box. I keep my straps loose enough to easily pull my foot out, but still feel that I'm plenty attached to the pedal. I've never, ever, fallen over because of being unable to get out of my pedal clips. These, combined with Shimano SPD shoes (without the cleats) give me a good rider interface with the pedal. I also really like being able to ride in any sort of shoe, especially when touring.

I completely see the benefits of using clipless pedals. They just don't work for my needs. What really bugs me, though, are the people that feel that I must not know anything about bicycling just because I choose not to use clipless. I invariably get the "it's so much better" lecture, even from complete strangers. Happened just this weekend. Use what works for you, and don't judge others.

I got A520 SPD pedals to work with recessed-cleat MTB shoes. They are similarly sized to SPD SL pedals that I use on my road bikes. Almost normal walking, without the clanking of other types of cleats.

Looked at the A530, but decided they were not as wide as the A520, and the platform side would be too easy for some miscreant to ride off on.

Again, not really. This belief is apparently based on old studies using slow-motion footage to analyze pedal strokes; more recent studies, using power meters in the pedal itself, indicate this is not what happens. You are only applying power on the down-stroke, and the rest of the time you can, at best, keep your other foot out of the way. You aren't applying a significant amount of force on the upstroke.

I.e. "pulling up hard" doesn't do anything. The best you can do is work to develop a smooth pedal stroke, and I don't think you necessarily need to be clipped in to accomplish that goal.

I tend to agree that with a smooth spin riders do not generally pull up much on the pedals. I disagree on what you seem to be implying that means. Specifically it does not mean there is no advantage to a foot retention system and does not mean that using one is not more efficient. The article does not state or even imply that is the case.

Also I think that while it is not part of a smooth spin, there are times when pulling up does occur and may help. While you may not do it when using an efficient spin, you may do it when near the top of a short climb to engage different muscles to get over the crest without down shifting. I personally believe that is helpful in some limited cases, but even if it isn't it does not negate the usefulness of clipless and other foot retention systems.

A few points...

1. The author says in the article, "The most they can hope for is to unweight the rear foot so it adds less drag to the power output of the foot that is pushing downward". That doesn't mean there is no gain from unweighting the rear foot. Even if it is an small difference it is repeated over several thousand pedal strokes per hour. So while it may be a small difference it still is a difference.
2. The article recommends that to learn that silky smooth spin you should practice one legged pedaling. Try that with no foot retention system sometime.
3. Whether you pull up or not you will not convince me that more power isn't generated over a larger portion of the revolution, especially not based on one person's read of one survey.
4. There are other differences as well. Not everyone may consider it an advantage, but I personally think the fact that my feet are always the same place at at the same angle on the pedal helps me maintain good form.

I'm not saying clipless is "completely" worthless. Nor do I know Pruitt's position on the issue. What I would say is:

Even the best cyclists are not applying power on the upstroke. As a result, clips / clipless most likely has a much smaller impact than most "serious" cyclists believe. What's happening is that on the upstroke, your leg is apparently trying to "get out of the way" -- and this is probably more a function of a smooth pedal stroke than of having your foot clamped to the pedal.

The article also recommends using rollers and riding off-road to smooth out your pedal stroke -- neither of which requires clips.

And while you believe locking your foot in place results in good form, for many people the lack of float can cause knee issues.

Clips may be helpful in some ways, but I'm not convinced anymore that they are critical. A smooth pedal stroke -- which you can likely achieve with regular platforms -- is probably equally or more important. Otherwise, it looks to me like it's more a question of preference, convenience and/or comfort.

If you don't believe power is only applied on the downstroke, I highly recommend you re-read the article. Again, they're drawing conclusions based on power meters installed in the actual pedals, not from external observation or conjecture. So, when the author states that you apply power only on the downstroke, and that most of the time the applied forces are tangential to the pedal stroke, I see little reason to dispute it.

By the way, the data Pruitt uses matches (and may well be derived from) the preliminary results of the Metrigear system, which is an attempt to commercialize in-pedal power meters.

Probably due to the fact that they never bothered to get their pedals set up correctly in the first place in most cases. The few exceptions are people who have some unusual biomechanical issue.

I'd argue that developing that smooth stroke is easier with a pedal retention system like clipless.

I don't see anywhere in the article where he says there in no added efficiency. In fact he says, "Greg LeMond first described pulling through at the bottom of the stroke saying it’s 'like scraping the mud off your shoe.' The image still works." Here again that is facilitated by having a pedal retention system.

I do agree that this is interesting stuff, but nothing in the article compares riding with and without foot retention. Also nothing in the article implies that a foot retention system does not extend the portion of the stroke where you are making power.