Amen!

One option to you since you are new to this and probably want to make alimited investment is the Nashbar Touring bike. I can already see myself doing that as my next project. they ahve the frame for $99 and the fork for $70. And it's nashbar so you know that there is always going to be some sort of sale to give you 20% off that. It has 132.5mm dropouts so you can go with MTB or road hubs in the back. There is a thread on here of someon who ddid a gorgeous build with one.

Agree with nun. He doesn't know it, but he was my guru is deciding how to go. Rear panniers are plenty. Bar bag if you have a bike with the geometry to make it safe and comfortable. Easy to get 40 lbs into two rear panniers, and you only need 20-25. Then you can run a carbon fork, the greatest innovation in modern biking other than tires.

Bike Nashbar frames are great and very comfortable. Barcons will keep the weight and cost down. Get a triple for the front. 12-34 is great for the rear, but hard to find and it depends on who you are and where you ride.

Yes, always a tent one person larger than the party size. The comfort is worth the tiny added weight.

I have crossed several countries with this setup but now use a typical four panniers method so I can bring along a few luxuries. I don't really notice if it slows me down much. I am usually having too much fun riding to worry about it!

Great picture. Nice set up. I think I am going for a little lighter set up. I travel light even when I am in a dumb car. Just don't like too much stuff.

The absolute best thing about touring is how personal it is. I read CC touring threads and sagged touring threads with intrigue. I've actually never gone on tour without my bags loaded. I'm sure I'll try it some day and probably like it.

My last trip was a little over 1000 mi/ two weeks of pure work/joy. When I left home my bike weighed 92lbs. It probably weighed more when I got home because I bought some stuff on the way. I carried everything I needed for a typical solo loaded touring trip. The bike was heavy but rode smooth as glass. MY favorite way to travel.

Personally I don't disagree with any touring setup if it works for the rider. It's all part of the fun of learning what one likes and what works for the rider. For me the bike and gear is the transportation and freedom to get me somewhere. Hell, I don't even care WHERE that somewhere is!

Jerry H

So far one of my favorite trips. KCMO to Marietta, GA. Sun drying my clean clothes on the back. :D

Jerry H

Learn by doing. Listen to what people who have done it have to say, then do it yourself. Real personal experience is a better teacher than all the opinions in the world.

Pretty much everything depends on how much you are carrying. If the total weight is under about 30 lbs I'd be prepared to go with rear panniers only. More than that, and I find the bike handles much better with some of the weight low down at the front. I like my creature comforts - two man tent to give me some room, a couple of changes of clothes if I decide to stop in a town and explore for a day or three, and so on - so my total load for an extended tour is usually about 50 lbs, and at that weight a four-pannier set up works best for me. I absolutely accept that this means I go slower, but the difference is less than one might expect and hey - I'm touring, not riding a brevet.

Just a few comments on some of what has been discussed here...

First, you can go pretty light and still keep costs down on at least some items. A few things that come to mind are

• Panniers - Nashbar or Performance waterproof ones are inexpensive and much lighter than most while still being durable enough.
• Stoves - Pop can stoves are essentially free and very light. The fuel is heavier per BTU, but that isn't so much of an issue for bike touring since you can carry less of it and restock frequently. A Pocket Rocket is light and pretty cheap.
• Pots and Pans - These can be very light without going high dollar especially if you limit yourself to one very thin gauge pot. We carried one pot for the three of us on the Trans America and managed some fairly elaborate meals.
• Tents - just going with a smaller tent can get the weight pretty low. For example the Eureka Solitaire can be found for $50. Higher end tents can be found on sale at close out prices if you watch for them.
• Sleeping Pads - Inexpensive foam pads work in a pinch and are light weight. That said this is an area where I splurged and bought a NeoAir which was obscenely expensive but is extremely light, packs tiny, and is very comfortable.
• Sleeping Bags - I managed to finish the TA with a $70 Slumberjack SuperGuide. It weighs a fairly light 2 pounds 9 ounces and Campmor now has it for $50. the rating is a bit optimistic, but with the addition of some clothes piled on top of my body inside the bag, I was comfortable down to 30 F or so. It isn't my first choice of bags and I have since replaced it with something more expensive, but it was OK.

Also you can go lighter just by skipping some items completely. If you look at some packing lists you can get by without more than half of the stuff on them.

Something was said about needing more for longer tours. I don't find that to be the case. I need the same stuff for a few days as I would for 3 months.

Oh and the comments about space in the tent... Just me, but I prefer to leave anything I don't need in the tent on the bike and in the panniers. On a rainy day I might sleep in late or read for a while, but get up and move on after a bit. I am more likely to try harder to camp somewhere that I am under a roof like a picnic pavilion or whatever and am also more likely to get up and go to a diner for breakfast if it is raining and there is one within an hour of riding or less.

Thank you all for so much great advice. I envisioned myself riding down the road with a rack on the back of my bike with a big blue floating bag that has what I need and a handlebar bag for quick get stuff. Maybe a front rack with some stuff on that. Still might go that route, but I probably need to get the gear together and see how small I can go. I have a tent (Kelty two person dome) that I do like. I can hang out in that tent and not feel like I am in some tiny cocoon. Have a sleeping bag that is light, but not that tiny. Thermarest that works. well enough. I want to be able to sleep in some comfort. I am 45 years old, not 25 when I slept on a floor for a year. Hope I can do this trip very cheap. My goal is as cheap as I can and document the expense of the trip, so people that are really on a budget can see how cheap you can do it. I suspect food will be the biggest expense, but I hope to eat at grocery stores most of the time. Probably always have peanut butter and bread on hand. Cheap and good fuel. Cliff bars come to mind as well.

Yes, absolutely assemble the gear and then decide how to pack it. Volume may be a greater concern than weight. We put everything made of fabric in waterproof compression sacks, like these:
http://www.rei.com/search?query=compression+sacks

We used the Sea to Summit. One 14L held our tent and sleeping bag. The others were 6L.

A 1-2 day resupply at grocery stores doesn't add too much weight or volume. Way to go. Eat fruit, better than Clif bars. Day-old coffee cake is great. Makes a wonderful no-cook breakfast, then up the road.

Those sacks are better than what I have. Might have to splurge on one of those. Thanks. I don't think I will have cooking gear at all. I don't really care about hot meals and figure so many grocery stores have a readymade food section. Lots of times you can get chicken thighs for very cheap and a couple of sides. Dinner only. Breakfast, lunch and snacks will be cold food. I don't really need more than that even when I am at home living normal.

OK, but hot drinks can be nice, especially if you're some distance from civilisation and it's cold. I use one of these. Not the cheapest, but packs fairly light and small (the burner and fuel canister pack inside the pot) and brilliantly efficient.

You sound like a pioneer. Don't trust the proven lore. Load your gear high and behind you to reduce wind drag. Go with light backpacker gear. Then be sure and create an account on Crazy Guy and write about your experience. Maybe we will all learn the error of our ways. Be sure and include the weight of your kit and how "backpackers" don't need to carry tools for their mechanical steeds. Or extra tubes, spokes, etc. Also let us know how that high load affects you when in a 30mph side wind. Include what happens to stability when you fly down a big hill at 40mph. Let us know your impressions when you pass by a small mom and pop diner, getting a wiff of the food, while contemplating a freeze dried dinner or power bar. We can probably all learn a lot.

It's nice to have cooking gear. After I've pitch the tent and have a shower I brew some tea. Take a look at the Trangia mini and the cook sets at Antigravitygear.

http://wheelsofchance.org/2010/05/26...-one-day-tour/

the bikes handling will be best with the loads closest to the axis of the wheels.

desire to do the trip total dirtbag style, going on the cheap, who even needs panniers? just wrap everything in a big blue tarp and bungie cord it to the top of the rack, add some boards in the roll to lend support, and go!

you'll have a great time discovering your ideal packing method.

methods I have used, from ultralite, to light, to fully loaded with winter camping equipment, skis and ski gear.

sounds like an NRS dry bag with shoulder straps. No you aren't out of your mind, you're applying your experience to a new challenge. You may find that a big blue bag loaded up full and placed on the rear rack will be an ungainly load to secure and it will move your cg to far back. The other problem is that for the same rims, spokes and number of spokes front wheels are stronger than rear wheels so putting too much weight on the rear wheel negatively affects handling and overly stresses the rear wheel to failure.

Wind resistance isn't much of a factor when your average speed is 10-12mph. If you're averaging 15+ then it does make a difference. So first off you'd have to have the motor and lungs to average that speed and fortunately if you carry very little gear it's easier to maintain a higher average speed. Once you put on 30lbs of gear and there's any incline you can pretty much throw the need for speed out the window.

I can notice wind resistance with low riders, especially on a 26" wheeled bike from the ground effect but If I'm carrying so much gear that I start screwup up handling by overloading the rear wheel then moving some of that weight onto the stronger front wheel makes sense. Using low riders you put the weight in line with the steerer tube which doesn't affect the steering adversely compared to putting it up above the front wheel.

So basically if you're concerned about wind resistance then you're riding a very light rig and are fit enough to maintain a high average where wind resistance becomes signficant. You could put a couple small stuff sack in line on the rack and a small bag on the handlebars and other parts of the frame.

But if you're carrying 30lbs worth that can fit in your big dry bag you aren't going fast up any incline, your speeds downhill won't change your average for the day compared to uphill speed and spreading that load low and not just on the rear wheel makes your rear wheel last longer and bike handle better.

My $.02 is get a bike that can carry your max anticipated load then experiment with trips starting with the lightest load that meets your desire for least wind resistance and max speed then try different combinations as you increase the load to what you would carry in that big blue dry bag.

I've set up a Cross-Check with a similar criteria. Small front rack, narrow rear rack with medium sized panniers. I can strap small dry bags on the front rack or medium compression sack on top with the rear panniers and tent on rack. Reduced wind drag isn't the motivation as much as a rig where I'm not expecting to carry more than 25lbs. and I want some of that weight forward. Once the weight goes up I'll want more on the front wheel and I'm not going fast.

When I was young and fast I toured with 10-15lbs of gear where it didn't rain in the summer.

btw, regarding aerodynamics all this is assuming you're in an aero position with drop bars 3" or so below your seat height.

+1 on the wind resistance. It's over hyped for touring speeds. Same with tire rolling resistance and carbon anything. Your own fitness level and the comfort of your riding position will have a far greater impact on your ability to tour given properly maintained equipment.

Sounds like you're attached to that big blue bag that worked so well on the river. The road is a different river and the bike isn't a raft/canoe. Speaking as someone who has ridden with gear piled high in the back and other combinations mentioned (bar bags cantilievered far forward and high) you'll do better with the lightest load well secured to the bike distributed close to the hubs and your mass. When the load is small you can afford to put it high but when the load gets heavy get it low. You'll enjoy fast descents a lot more with medium panniers well secured to the rack than a big blue bag strapped high on the rack. I understand the convenience standpoint of that one big blue bag holding everything, toss it in the raft, take it out.

ps. really check out Bekologist pictures, especially #3 and #5 the 520 ultra light rig with water bottles on the front fork. That's what you do when you want to ride and have your gear and bike move together. Simply putting that big blue bag on the rear rack will give you one floppy package when hitting bumps, flying through turns, or out of the saddle chugging up a mtn.

Okay, I am going to have to yield to the more experienced. Seems weight distribution is of great importance and I do understand that. Cost is a concern here, so maybe I should revisit the idea of towing a trailer? Can I do that with my road bike and take the expense away from me having to buy a new/used bike or a touring bike is really best? Seems it is going to be a little more expensive buying new bags and such. I do see trailers for sale on CL for pretty cheap.

Hcurtis, you mentioned that your grocery getter bike is a Nishiki, what model? If you get a trailer you're automatically pulling 15lbs. Put a 5lb tent and 5lbs of clothes and sleeping bag and youre already carrying 25lbs. You could put 21lbs of gear in 2lbs of panniers on 2lbs of bike racks and you're carrying 11 more lbs of stuff for the same total weight pulling up hills. Now if you're carrying 50lbs of gear the trailer could make sense. Seriously check out Bekologists set up. It's a lot more fun to ride a bike than pull a heavy load. Honestly if I was in your shoes I'd look around for a used CrossCheck and make sure it had the right wheels and gears for the load and keep the load under 25lbs.

Here's my 2 panniers + barbag rig for my Texas - Great Divide MTB Route - Nor Cali. tour earlier this year. Total cargo weight under 28 lbs. That was pared down to 24-25 lbs along the way.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

That's a pretty generous bias in favor of the panniers/racks combo IMO. The non-trailer/non-racks&panniers gear is the same regardless of what is carried - so make sure you restrict any comparison/math to like-to-like or equivalent-to-equivalent.

When I've tallied up weights and compared 4 panniers and front&back racks to a Bob Yak, the difference is about 3 pounds if medium duty racks are considered (almost even if heavy duty, expedition racks and top of the line Arkel/Ortleib panniers are used). If only 2 panniers are used, obviously the math will come out different.

Pulling an unloaded trailer on flats is all but effortless --- the 15 pounds of a Bob and its sack are meaningless here. Unloaded panniers always act as sails, unloaded or not --- sometimes more noticeably than others.

Having been out with panniers and with just a single wheel trailer on weekenders/3-4 day tours a couple times over the last two months, I think the difference in ON-ROAD riding is that I needed to gear down before hills slightly earlier when towing the trailer than when riding with panniers. I found the trailer easier to pack yet disliked the single compartment style of the trailer bag (similar to what Ortleib panniers use, though 2 panniers creates 2 internal compartments and thus some organization).

The main difference I found when towing a trailer or using panniers was when I ran into crosswinds - direct head/tailwinds resulted in no difference in handling. With crosswinds, the panniers acted much more like sails than the trailer. And it didn't take much of a deviation from 0 or 180 degrees off my direction of travel to notice the difference in balance/handling - especially at low speeds against medium-high winds. This was also observable when being passed by trucks/buses/rv's. The bike & trailer definitely handled better when being passed than did the 4 pannier setup.

A minor secondary difference was when starting. For me, panniers required slightly less effort to get rolling on flat land than the trailer. Once rolling, the trailer was less noticeable in terms of balance/handling - on flat land.

Another consideration is parking the bike. Will you be comfortable laying the bike down? Will you want to use a kickstand? Laying the bike on panniers, by definition, introduces wear material and may crush the contents. A kickstand adds some weight, may not be strong enough for the load with panniers, and may introduce its own heel strike issues. With a trailer, will there be a wall, tree table or fence to lean the bike against so you don't have to lay the bike and trailer down together - so as to avoid introducing any twisting forces to the frame when you "roll" the bike and trailer back to vertical? Yes, you can use a kickstand here also - but, will it hold both bike and trailer which are longer than the bike alone? You CAN mount a kickstand to a trailer - that has its own issues/benefits. Don't count on a trailer-based kickstand to be able to be used alone (without one also on the bike).

For super light touring, trailers aren't the way to go - that's for sure. However, they do have their place - I'd say the transition is between 25 and 35 pounds of all gear and food. If you can stay below 25 pounds, handlebar&rear bags or panniers and racks would seem to be the way to go. Above 40-45 pounds of gear, I'm partial to the trailer. Between 25 and 45 pounds, I think I'd lean towards the trailer for flat routes and panniers for hilly ones.

The one overriding factor would be if I was traveling a route that had 40-50 mile stretches without water resupply - especially if facing temperatures above 90 and/or winds above 15 mph. Then I'd go with the trailer every time due to the need to carry sufficient water and possibly emergency rations that I wouldn't otherwise carry.

thx, you said it better and from experience. The op attachment to a large dry bag that is used in river rafting where weight isn't as critical as in cycling makes me think he's biased to carrying a heavier load than is likely were he to load that same weight on the bike and drag it up and down hills, and into stealth camping areas. His criteria appear to be: nice road bike, something unique, carry big river running dry bag.

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.a...0&pdeptid=1630

LeeG - Well, the Bob Yak cargo area measures roughly 25"L x 16"W x 18"H while the size of that bag you linked to is 16" diameter x 33" tall. I certainly wouldn't try that on my rear rack, especially if that was on a lightweight road bike. Heck, that bag almost meets the recommended load height limit for a Bob Yak of 18"..........

Also, the OP, in his original post, mentioned 40 pounds of water carried on a rear rack. I'd never try that with other gear on my bike, especially not on any hills. OTOH, 5 gallons towed in a trailer, that's not something I'd worry about too much in terms of handling.

You can use whatever bag you already have for kayaking with any trailer you buy. Craigslist and eBay are both sources for used trailers --- Then the question becomes single or double-wheel? I'd guess most tourers are split between the Bob Yak/Ibex single-wheel and the Burley Nomad double-wheel though there are other alternatives like Extrawheel. The advantage of following the crowd in this case is thier experience/knowledge base in terms of reliability and assistance. For instance, there's a local guy selling a two-wheel knockoff of a different manufacturer. The difference is about 15 pounds of dry-weight in his trailer's design.

My personal preference on an on-road-only tour would be a two-wheel (probably a Burley) but I have seen more Bob Yak/Ibex's than Burleys on the road. Off-road, I'd go with a single-wheel based solely on the recommendations/stories of others. In the city, I'd go with a two-wheel due to it's easy of loading/stability while loading, but the disadvantage would be its width in comparison to that of a single-wheel.

One other consideration, a single-wheel trailer is generally easier to lift over a fence for/when stealth camping.

on even the ultralite rigs I've pictured, ALL have over a gallon of water capacity showing.

I had an extra liter in the carradice bagged travelers check in the top photos. I'll regularily carry 10 liters atop the rack on my trad touring bike setups and 4 liters in bottles. enough for a good distance between potable water.

I took his experience of carrying the 5gal as his reference for carrying a lot of weight on the rack, not a prefered load of water. I've got a couple of those NRS bags, there's a smaller version he might have. Either way it's not exactly the most user friendly package to adapt to cycling.
These are nice but not for constant rubbing against a metal rack. Well secured they're useful.
http://www.seatosummit.com/products/display/63

The OP specifically mentioned 5 gallons on a rear rack - almost more than 1.5 times the total you describe carrying and 5x that you said you've seen in pictures. You're also speaking as a fairly well-conditioned and experienced solo cycling tourist, not as an inexperienced cyclist touring with an equally inexperienced person.

As someone who ran out of water on hikers twice, I tend to err on the side of caution, especially when I have to consider travelling companions. Your mileage obviously varies.

Oh, and I'm not suggesting he carry that much water ---- just using it as a reference.

LeeG -> good point on material rub on the metal rack/trailer bed. I stuck a piece of plastic under my trailer bag to limit that wear. The weight was negligible. I've seen others use a thin sheet of aluminum. Most people use nothing.