zerobuttons

I plan to buy a new touring/trekking bicycle March-April 2011, and am looking into a Rohloff configuration. Could I get you to say a few words about your experiences here, if you have bought a bicycle from a builder in EU who do Rohloff?

I am thinking about these guys for instance, but I may not have spotted all European builders who make bicycles with this gear hub:
Thorn
Mi-Tech
Van Nicholas
Nicolai
Koga Miyata

chasm54

I've recently bought a Thorn Nomad - heavy-duty expedition tourer. I'm very pleased with the bike, and with the hub.

As far as Thorn's service is concerned, I'd say OK rather than excellent. It was fine for me because I pretty much knew exactly what I wanted, was familiar with my measurements and the fit I required etc. But the young man I discussed it with in the shop wasn't especially informative or helpful. Polite, but not much in the way of suggestions or guidance. Of course, I have no way of knowing what he'd have been like with a less opinionated customer!

Having said that, it was ready four weeks after I ordered it - they'd promised five weeks - and it's a great bike. It's a heavyweight, but I knew that when I ordered it and it's a surprisingly nice ride. I can see it taking me and however much baggage I want to take - its weight-carrying capacity is far greater than my capacity to pedal those weights uphill - wherever in the world I want to go.

One thing. Their builders assume that as a tourist you'll want a very upright riding position. As a result they cut the steerer very long - longer than I needed, anyway, so that when I got the bike I took 35mm off it to avoid a stack of spacers above the stem. So if you order from them it is probably worth being very specific about the height you want the bars to be relative to the saddle, and telling them you don't want the steerer cut longer than you need.

Hope this was useful. There's another very good builder you might consider. I don't know exactly what sort of bike you want, of course, or how much you want to spend, but Bob Jackson in Leeds, UK will build you just about whatever you want, with a Rohloff. They build really nice bikes and - for a custom builder - their prices aren't too bad.

MichaelW

Santos are another Dutch custom touring bike maker with Roholff experience.
I think it is worth investigating a Gates carbon drive, these need a split rear triangle.
The Koga custom tourers I have seen have all been lovely bikes. They are quite lightweight with Aluminium frames and carbon touring forks but expedition-worthy. Drop-bars seem to have been replaces almost entirely by butterfly/treking bars or flats with aerobars. It makes the selection of controls easier and you still get a variety of positions.

zerobuttons

Thank you, chasm54, for the hints about dealing with Thorn and for mentioning Bob Jackson Cycles. Is your own Thorn Rohloff equipped?

zerobuttons

Thank you for mentioning Santos, MichaelW. I went to their website now and tried configuring a trekking bicycle. I still need to look into their frame materials and such before evaluating. It´s all a bit foggy right now, since they haven´t translated all their pages from Dutch.....

vik 

I had a Thorn Nomad S&S:

- service was excellent
- quality of design and fabrication was excellent
- attention to small detail was impressive
- paint was lovely and tough
- very stable
- very very strong stiff frame
- clearance for big tires and fenders
- heavy frame/fork

I rode it for a year and sold it not due to a problem with the bike - it is exactly as described in Thorn's literature. The problem for me was that the bike was so uber heavy duty and my needs have changed since I first got interested, ordered it and built it up. It's not a bike I enjoyed riding without a heavy load. If you have an expedition tour in the works or you tour normally with a lot of weight on the bike I'd recommend it. For more typical touring needs I enjoy riding my Surly LHT a lot more.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/vikappr...7616802557037/

I suspect the Thorn Sterling with rigid fork would be a better choice for a Rohloff touring bike for most people as it uses thiner diameter tubes and is less tank like.

I would certainly buy another Thorn if I had a need that they could meet well. My GF and thinking about a tandem and a Thorn is one option we are looking at.

Although not Rohloff specific a Surly Troll with a Monkey Bone would make a nice low cost Rohloff touring bike.

https://surlybikes.com/frames/troll_frame/

If I was starting again working on a Rohloff tourer a Surly Troll would be my choice for frame.

chasm54

Yes, all the Thorn Raven and Nomad tourers are specifically designed for the Rohloff hub. Vik is right about the Nomad - it's more bike than you need if you don't intend to do any rough stuff or carry heavy loads. The guy who built it for me at Thorn said that his personal favourite was their raven sport tour - lighter, a bit more responsive, and certainly sufficient if you're staying on-road and carrying less than about 20kilos.

positron

I have a tout terrain silkroad:

https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/catego...build-09-33984

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tout-terrain.asp

which I built from parts- it is a rohloff specific frame with EBB and integrated stainless rear rack, and has a load of little details, like a handlebar stop, all stainless braze-ons and asymmetric fork for disk use. The total weight of the bike is 34 lbs, with a tubus duo rack, Schmidt dynohub and supernova lightset and brooks saddle. not bad, given that my other more road-oriented touring bikes (Specialized expedition, Kuwahara custom, Roberts Roughstuff) are a similar weight, but decidedly less capable offroad and much less solid, with exception of the Roberts which is also a 26 inch wheel tourer, but not a Rohloff frame...

I built my silkroad with drop bars, but I also have flat bars that I can swap on in about 10 mins. I am EXTREMELY happy with the bike, and I chose this one over a nomad from thorn, which I had the chance to ride when I lived in the UK. I thought the thorn felt a bit more "dead" to ride, and was a few pounds heavier than the silkroad. The silkroad is built from columbus zona oversized tubing and is very comfortable (springy, dampens vibration) unloaded, which is a nice feature in a do-everything tourer and commuter bike. Loaded, the silkroad is incredibly stable, with no wiggle side to side and no tendency to shimmy or swoop into turns. I generally ride with 40mm schwalbe supreme tires, but I also have 50mm marathon XR that I use for dirt road touring. I could easily fit 60mm tires if I took off the fenders I use.

I looked into nearly every rohloff-specific frame available, and to my mind the silkroad does the best job of really getting all the details just right for the hub, cable routing, EBB clamp, stainless brazeons and stainless rack, steel choice etc etc etc.. See that peter white link above for a lot of specific points about the design. I bought mine from an EU dealer, and thus did not pay VAT, so the frame and fork were slightly less than 900 USD. I also got the hub for around 900, so I feel like I got a fair deal. I would certainly buy the same bike again if I were given the chance to do it over. Its pricey, and Im not rich, but what expendible income I do have, I feel was well spent on this bike. I saved up and acquired parts for ~4 years for this uber-build, so I definitely wanted the 'right' thing with such a big purchase. I feel like i am totally satisfied and this is definitely the bike I ride most out of all of my bikes- I like it equally well loaded and unloaded. With a load, it is noticeably more stiff than even my tubus logo rack-equipped Roberts, which is saying something. I regularly take my lady out on the town with a pillow and her sitting sidesaddle on the rack- no ill effects on the handling whatsoever, and I know the rack is up to the job. To my mind it is like a surly big dummy for most jobs, but not so long and cumbersome to live with- much more fun to ride as well... ( I had an extracycle). I can keep up a pretty solid 16-18 MPH pace on the sikroad for my 9 mile commute.

The paint is very tough, and the welds are excellent quality. The handling is impeccable, even with a large front-rack mounted handlebag (ostrich ~20L bag ((approx 5-10 pounds at times)) on small nitto-type rack) I can easily ride no handed at any speed.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask questions... I get the feeling you are UK? if so, Bikefix on lambs conduit in London has sikroads in stock to check out first hand, though the employees there can be Bell-ends at times...

zerobuttons

Thank you for your answers with nice inspirational examples. No, positron, I´m actually situated in Denmark. However, a trip to London wouldn´t scare me if I got to talk to people who could show me that they take interest in selling me what I want and not just what they have lying around.

chasm54

Thanks for pointing us at this shop, positron. Can't understand how I've overlooked them, given that my favourite pub in the world is on the same street. And Condor cycles, which I drop into frequently when in London, is only a couple of streets away too...

myheadsashed

Dave Yates
Robin Mather
Argos Cycles in Bristol
Shand in Scotland
Burls if you like Ti

quester

I have the same pair of bikes. My experience ordering was very good: Andy Blance (the designer) handled mine himself and he was quite helpful and patient. This was important, as I'm in the states and couldn't check it out first.

I agree w/ all the points above. The heavy frame isn't as big an issue for me, as I'm a big guy. On the other hand, I've only had it for six months, and have yet to tour on it.

I went down the west coast two years ago on my LHT, so I know that's a great bike. The thing that finally made me get a new bike, however, was the so-called "death wobble". Not an issue for most of you, but it can be for bigger guys.

The thorn is *solid*, no death wobble.

And, as an aside, I commute most days on the thorn and am seriously growing to love the rohloff. At first the noise in 6th and 7th really bummed me out, but that's actually gotten much quieter, just like the rohloff folks say.

I don't like the way the eccentric BB is held in place on the thorn (just a screw that goes into the BB's outer wall), but I can't say I've had any problems with it. The silk road's approach seems better.

Otherwise, no worries about the bike at all.

fietsbob

Koga Miyata offers a Signature option, where they give you a menu of component options,
You choose ,

then It's Shipped to a dealer of your choice, near home in DK, or perhaps close to AMS/Schiphol
to fly in, pick up your bike, and start your tour.
https://www.koga-signature.com/en/Koga-Signature.aspx

I have an '04 Koga WTR, I got used, over here in the US.. a good package. World Tour, R is for Rohloff.

I think the rear dropout adjustment components are better on their new frames,
from the looks of the site pictures ..

Carcinogent

+1 on the Santos.

Great customer service. I had some negative experience with some parts availability (I was warned in advance by the dealer), however, I ordered waaaay in advance so everything was ready on time.

Personally I like the way Santos has solved some common problems with their frames; no eyelets that can break off, etc. Visit their website and you can use the custom bike option and mix and match parts.

-Carcinogent

zerobuttons

I am aware of that, and have already made a couple of configurations with different levels of ride-readyness. Actually it seems that it will be too much hassle to order the uncomplete version, when looking at prices for the individual components.

At this point I´m pretty much settled on acquiring a complete, ready-to-ride Koga Signature. The fact that the gear hub on my daily commuter bicycle broke down two days ago, has pushed this decision. I will have to wait with the purchase until January, though, because of finances.

Some of the examples you guys mentioned in this thread do speak to me, but the fact that Koga Miyata has representation here in Denmark and I can buy with Danish consumer protection - which is among the best in the world - is a significant factor to me.

zerobuttons

Santos has been very high on my list for a while. If they had real representation in Denmark, it is likely I would opt for them, but as stated in my previous posting Koga Miyata wins on points there.

zerobuttons

Just to finish this off:
I ended up ordering a Koga Signature 30. December and it was delivered to the dealer here in Copenhagen 10. February, four days ago. It is everything I hoped for. The Rohloff hub makes the gears feel almost stepless, and the Schmidt hub dynamo I also opted for, can just as well be turned on all the time - I´m unable to feel any drag whatsoever from it.
Of course, with options like these, my new bicycle is no light-weighter, but that doesn´t matter too much in my case. The durability and stability of the bicycle and its components have first priority to me. I also chose simple V-brakes over hydraulic disc brakes to get a solution that is more time-proven and which is simpler to problem-solve with.

Here is my configuration:

• Frame KS-TR 28: Frame colour Mystic Black, Frame size 50cm
• Fork Wide Bone rigid
• Group set Rohloff Speedhub 14-speed
• Brakes Shimano V-brake
• Tyres Schwalbe Marathon 37mm
• Rims and spokes KM21 Xstrong / Sapim
• Saddle Brooks B-17 Standard gents leather
• Seat post Koga Signature®
• Handlebar PRO MTB Cross Country
• Stem PRO adjustable
• Grips Ergon GC2-L
• Pedals Shimano Combi PD-A530
• Rear carrier Tubus Logo
• Dynamo SONdelux
• Headlight Son LED Edelux
• Rear light B&M 4D'Toplight
• Kickstand Pletscher Comp
• Mudguards SKS Chromoplastics
• Chain case/guard Hebie Chainglider
• Weight 16 kg

I also bought a pair of Ortlieb Tourer rear panniers, by the way. I´m very happy with the whole package.....

vik 

Have fun with your new rig....

fietsbob

I own a Koga Miyata WTR, its an 04 model , new signature menu model
looks like the rear sliding dropout setup is better than what is on this one of mine,
but its perfectly functional on mine.

I like the Magura HS33 brakes that came on mine, hydraulic rim brakes .
and it got me started on Trekking bars.
Koga's special order ergo low rider racks with a bracket to mount
a 2nd short Kickstand under the left one,
is a great addition to the bike's load carrying capabilities
.. so the front wheel wont roll and pull the bike over.

considering a chainglider before next winter, and an eDelux headlight.

for the cold wet and dark of my 64th year..

https://www.cyclofiend.com/working/20...clark1008.html

zerobuttons

Thanks, Vik. This is the first bicycle in years I want to really make the best out of. Today was the first time in more than 10 years I polished my bike.....

vik 

Pictures?