V-Brake'd Touring bikes?
 

As I clicked through touring bike manufacturers websites and even the "Post your touring bike photo's" thread here, I notice that the overwhelming majority of touring bikes [that use rim brakes] use standard cantilevered brakes. I'm working on making a parts list for a build right now and I think I'd like to use V-brakes as I understand they are easier to set up, and no more difficult to maintain. Are there any pros/cons I'm missing about using V's instead of cantilevers?

PROS:
• Allegedly easier to set up.
• Availableness of replacement parts within the US (since most hybrid/cruisers currently use these brakes)
• [Generally] better stopping power

CONS:
• Need special levers for use with drop bars (eg. Tektro RL520)
• Need Travel Agents for use with brifters (adds complexity)
• Lacks 'classic' look that many higher end touring bikes are seeking to achieve.

Am I missing or misinformed about some other major pro's/con's of v brakes? My setup will be drop bars with bar end shifters so the brifter issue won't affect me and while admittedly I like the look of cantilevers with their symmetry and styling, it seems like for function v-brakes will work better for me.

Also, anyone have experience using Avid SD5's or SD7's on a touring bike? All the reviews I can find are from mountain bikers (who have different needs than tourers) and for both brakes there will be 5 people who love them and then one guy who says they kicked his dog, insulted his grandmother, and ran off with his girlfriend and that I should look for something else. :lol:

Your not missing anything, Linear pull brakes (V-brakes) are superior to cantilever brakes in every category.

The reason you see so many on touring bikes, at least older touring bikes with cantilever brakes is drop handlebars and brake levers. Linear pull brakes need long cable pull levers and up until a couple years ago there were no drop bar, long pull levers.
These days there are several manufacturers that make them, Cane Creek, Dia Compe, Tektro and others. With these levers available the only reason to use cantilevers is for "Old School" fashon.

I have owned both and properly set up either is fine. Personally I prefer STI brifters so I prefer cantis.

That's only really true if you don't like wrenching on your bike. Cantilevers take more effort to set up well, but once they are set up, they work just as well as v brakes. Replacement parts for both are readily available, so I wouldn't rely on that to make the choice.

Really, both work fine when set up well; I doubt most people could tell the difference between V brake and cantilever stopping power if they couldn't see the brakes. for me, it comes down to the fact that I like playing with my bike, and cantilevers look better.

I went with v-brakes on my recent cyclocross bike instead of cantilevers and so far like the results. I was happy with the tektro cr-720 wide profile cantilevers I had on the front of my last cyclocross bike but with this new bike and a lighter Ritchey WCS fork, I wanted to skip any possibility of fork chatter and so went with v-brakes.

V-brakes are now available in a variety of different arm lengths. So instead of changing brake lever types to suit the V-brake, you can now just chose the appropriate sized v-brake to go with the brake levers you wish to use.

Full size V-brakes (over 100mm) as found on most mountain/hybrid bikes:
• either use a road lever like the RL520
• or use standard road levers and a "travel agent" pulley adapter to correct the cable pull amount

Mini-V brakes in the 90-95mm range (like the fancy new TRP CX-9):
• Work with standard road levers without travel agent adapter as the "noodle"
• The latest shimano levers pull a bit more cable so this size V-brake is a good match for those levers, but can be made to work with older Shimano or SRAM or Campy but the pads will need to be set a little closer to the rim to start with

Mini-V brakes in the 80-85mm range:
• Work with standard road levers without travel agent adapter as the "noodle"
• Popular with some european cyclocross racers, paired with campagnolo levers
• Sets up with a bit more pad clearance than the 90-95mm length v-brake arms

Now, you can use the mini-v's with travel agents, too, and then be able to set your pads up really far away from the rim. This may come in handy if you ride in thick mud or wheels go out of true a lot, but for typical daily use for me I've found the amount of pad clearance fine without the travel agent noodle.

Here is my bike with Campagnolo levers and the 85mm Tektro RX-5 brakes, and 28mm tires. As you can see, there is still plenty of room for much larger tires:

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You will notice that I'm using a "noodle" with adjustability. This may be necessary with Shimano/Sram levers because you'll need to set the pads up pretty close to the rim and may not have enough slack left to release the noodle to open up the brakes for wheel removal. With the adjustable noodles you can back off the brakes easily enough to release them and also can back them off if your wheel goes out of true and starts rubbing. I use Campy levers that have a quick release built into the lever itself so these noodles really weren't necessary for me but I put them on anyway.

No offense, but this is simply not true. No matter how you or anyone set-up canti's you will never have as long a lever arm as linear pull brakes provide, it's impossible. No matter how straight you make the cable yoke, you can't change the fact that the more you pull in the cable while braking, the less leverage you have to brake, again physics get is the way.

If your a light person and your touring rig is light and your into the retro look, fine, but for a new build it makes no sense to use anything other than linear pull or disc brakes.

I had V-brakes on one bike I toured with and the only complaint I really had was that the rack interfered with them somewhat. You can work around it, but cantis clear the rack stays better.

I ditched the Avid cantilever front brakes on my tourer for a set of Cane Creek Direct Curve brakes http://www.canecreek.com/component-o...direct-curve-5. They don't squeal as much as any of the cantis I've tried, they stay adjusted longer, and they seem to stop the bike a lot faster. I installed the Drop V levers http://www.canecreek.com/component-other?product=drop-v because I don't like the idea of a travel agent or any other gimmicks. I use bar-con shift levers, which simplifies he job of picking out a brake lever.

I built up a touring bike from a MTB frame, and originally went with V-brakes/boosters and Travel Agents (to use brifters). I decided to switch my front to disc, so used the change as an opportunity to put a 29er disc fork on, to raise the front a little, and 'slacken' the steering a touch. The frame was not made for disc, so the rear stayed V-brake/booster.

As far as stopping power, I ended up going to a 203mm rotor to match what the V-brake/booster had given me. I got an Avid BB7 Road caliper (cable) for ease of setup, and maintenance.

It has worked out very well for me, and I have no problems slowing my descent on hills while towing my trailer and gear.:thumb:

BTW I switched to bar end shifters because the brifters just would NOT reliably move my XT FD from shall ring thru big ring. Now "no worries"!

I have adopted Trekking bars, and so I have use of straight bar levers without the straight bars.
Magura HS33 brakes and a Rohloff grip shifter, all work.

My Drop Bar touring bike uses Pre Aero Levers and Scott Peterson SE cantilevers
Bosses are on a heavier wall tube, as iif the brakes are strong, like in #9 above
the frame tubes will be flexed by the braking force. so arch boosters and/or a bit stiffer tube helps.

add : > neither squeel , Magura is Hydraulic rim brake on V bosses.
self energizing brake is beefy, uses a helix and a coil spring in each side
forward motion of wheel increases braking forces..

Squeel is setup more than hardware.

Have to agree with gregw, V's are generally superior in stopping power hence why they replaced canti's on mountain bikes. Yes, canti's can be made to work well but they're more likely to squeel like a pig and are just fussier to set up and maintain. If I were to use bar ends or thumb shifters, it's a no brainer...use v's, with brifters.....pick your poison.

"No offense, but this is simply not true. No matter how you or anyone set-up canti's you will never have as long a lever arm as linear pull brakes provide, it's impossible. No matter how straight you make the cable yoke, you can't change the fact that the more you pull in the cable while braking, the less leverage you have to brake, again physics get is the way.

If your a light person and your touring rig is light and your into the retro look, fine, but for a new build it makes no sense to use anything other than linear pull or disc brakes. "

Wrong, at least for drops. The brakes have a better lever, the levers have a worse, one, and from the hoods the fingers have a worse one. There are three to four components in the train: Hands, levers, travel agents if you like kluges on your bike, and the brakes. Linears win one, loose on three. On MTBs with flat bars not an issue but with drops it's worse with the overall result being pretty much indistinguishable performance differences.

Classical wise, I don't get two things. Cantis are for the most part post MTB. Touring bikes in my youth had sidepulls or Mafac Racer type brakes. I never saw cantis until I got my MTB. I'm no expert on retro, but if I have a nostalgic pull for cantis, it's on my MTB. The other thing is that most people really don't want much to do with retro brakes. Medium priced brakes, maybe all old brakes sucked. I want beautiful brakes, the newer the better. The more expensively wrought the better. Sure they might tip the hat to something earlier, but while I might ride an old frame in a pinch, give me all new components.

huh? I don't understand what you're trying to say?

I have a specialized sirrus hybrid that I put drop bars and full-size v-brakes on. I used tektro rl520s and entry-level shimano brakes. I'm probably tipping the scales around 230 right now, plus I have a rack and a pannier for commuting. I don't have problems stopping, except in rainy conditions... when everyone should slow down anyway. I'd be inclined to go with mechanical discs on a new build though. Welcome to the future.

I wouldn't convert a bike that came with cantis unless they were broken, but if you're building up a frame, I can't see any compelling reason besides brifters to use cantis. I've never used the travel agents, but from what I've read on the forums, they seem to be a bit of a kludge... and not something I'd want to count on when touring.

Performance wise the whole thing has to be looked at as a system. Before splashing out money look at set-ups you can ride, or that are in catalogs, and if you like them mimic them in their entirety. You can substitute similar components that you like, like a Paul version of a centerpull, for the mafac, but don't try to change the basic geometry. Don't try to graft on something that worked from a wide unicrown fork onto a narrow road fork. Don't copy something that worked for big hands or little hands. Consider rider, bars, levers, brakes, forks, wheel rim clearances. Be sure you don't build something you can't easily take a wheel off of.

Set-up wise. Neither Vs or Cantis have much of an advantage. There are traps aplenty, squeaky monsters in both camps. Who cares. You only have to learn to handle one set of brakes on your personal bike. Not too difficult.

Why do you all keep talking as if "brifters" are a reason to not prefer V-brakes? Is post #5 not showing up for you?

Clasher we are in perfect sync, not in disagreement. I disagree with the dude who said there was a massive difference. I have the 287s for Vs. The pivot point is lower than on the standard road lever. This allows the brake to pull more wire. You need to pull more wire because the V has a longer lever arm, more powerful, but it takes more wire movement to move it. So what you win on lever arm, you give back on lever. It isn't too bad from the drops, but from the hoods the pivot point is lower. If it gets low enough it will eventually be impossible to activate at all, but it means that in effect the fingers have less mechanical advantage. We all know this right, you can pull harder on the levers from the drops than on the hoods, but it is way worse with the lower pivot point. It could be dangerously low for small hands. I have no problem at my size, but my wie would be in the danger zone for sure. For her it would mater a lot whether she road Vs or cantis from the hoods. Actually, all insults aside, that is probably and advantage to travel agents over special levers for Vs, easier for the little hands.

Travel agents give back mechanical advantage also, they have a small input wheel and a large output wheel. Gets the Vs moving, but dumps mechanical advantage, and there would be losses in the bearings also.

"Is post #5 not showing up for you? "

I have to admit, I saw goats, cyclocross, and Campy and decided not to read it. But I have one to two objections. One is I think I read about those tektro brakes and looked them up and they were expensive enough that I didn't see it as something I couldn't already get from just buying any premium brakes, without tektro stamped on them. And then there is the fact that if you shorten the arms, you get to use the levers, but they loose the advantage they had in stopping power. In all truth the advantage is just based on dimensions. You want large enough cantis, you can have those advantages, and disadvantages also.

Where retro does come into it, is that while I have owned and am not confused by Vs. If they have no advantage over cantis, I probably have aesthetic and generational preferences for cantis that would over rule using Vs. I assume the same will one day be true for folks growing up today discs.

Speaking of retro cantis that outperform all Vs - Self energizing cantis. They will lock your wheel up like a bank vault, using cheap black pads, and with OK modulation, regular levers, etc.... A bit ugly, just because they aren't high end brakes. Maybe Paul should make some. :)

The Tektro Rx-5 brakes on my bike pictured above were less than $30 for the pair. The new TRP CX-9 is a bit expensive since it has fancy anodizing and whatnot but so are the boutique cantilever brakes.

All I can say is that I've run Cantilevers (Tektro CR720 front, a low profile rear) that I had set up "perfectly" with Shimano brifters and was pretty satisfied. No squeal, plenty of power, etc. But the Mini-V brakes seem to provide both more power and more modulation. What's not to like?

It's going to be a personal preference thing, but some of the theoretical criticisms here just do not match up with my real world experience so I think some of you all ought to give Vs or MiniVs a try sometime.

This is true, but what you give up on the at the the handlebars is far less than what you gain at the brake. Get out a measuring device and you will see. I am correct in my assessment. As I said, linear pull brakes are superior in every category, this not opinion it's fact.

doesn't matter. once you start pulling cable on the canti brake the mechanical leverage goes down at the brake.

well Pacific, those Rx5's are getting good reviews, may just have to give them a whirl on my new build

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/sho....php?p=1229706

That Ritchey up there is a beautiful frame.

I was a cantilever guy until my wife wanted me to put V-brakes on the bike I was building for her this summer. She rode a bike equiped with v-brakes and needing short reach levers convinced her that this combination was the way to go. It was my first expeience with V-brakes and travel agents, but they are really easy to set up. They are also the same set up that the shop who built her frame use on their bikes equiped with STI shifters. They are the Avid SD 7s, and they work exceptionally well. Much better than my cantilvers. I'm thinking about changing my LHT over to v-brakes this winter. Another advantage is tha v-brakes do not require a brake bridge on the chainstays or connected to the seatpost bolt. This was really a problem for us because of the frame size, 47cm. There is just not much room back there.


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