imi

Hi, I've searched but not quite resolved this...

Are there any advantages/disadvantages with vertical dropouts for a fully loaded geared touring bike?

At the moment I'm leaning towards vertical for the sheer simplicity of wheel alignment, but maybe missing some other aspect?

Thanks!

NoReg

That is about it, though it presupposes the alignment is actually correct, which is pretty unlikely. All but the most recent bike I bought have had horizontals, just what they used to sell. I would build verticals at this stage, but it isn't a life and death thing for me.

prathmann

Don't think it would matter much. Vertical dropouts generally make it a little easier to remove and replace the rear wheel when you need to fix a flat. OTOH, horizontal dropouts would make it easier to convert your bike to a single speed in the unlikely event that you totally destroy your rear derailleur somewhere far from help.

imi

thanks for the replies
Interesting thought prathmann. Am I right in thinking you mean removing the (destroyed) rear derailleur completely, shortening the chain so it's the right length on one cog and getting the tension right by moving the wheel horizontally?

sorry I've never delved into the single speed thang :/

paul2432

Don't most single speeds use a nut rather than a quick release on the rear axle? I did a conversion like this on a winter beater bike and found I had to make the nut pretty tight to avoid the rear wheel slipping.

Paul

robow

There's a reason why most road, mountain, cross bikes today have vertical dropouts, unless it's a specific single speed or track frame, it's just less to worry about (no slippage)

unterhausen

I don't see much reason to worry about conversions if that's not what you are interested in. You can always get a chain tensioner if you decide to go to an IGH. There are various reasons to get vertical dropouts. Fenders and horizontal dropouts are not a good mix. Most skewers that are currently available don't grip tight enough to keep a wheel straight on horizontal dropouts

imi

Ah great! thanks guys, vertical it will be

fietsbob

SiS/Indexing systems need a fixed relationship of where the components are,
to work at their engineered, best.
so hub axis and derailleur hanger are, predictably, with vertical dropouts,
(or short less vertical).

Plus short chainstays are another beneficiary , iE race Bikes .

imi

started on the xmas glühwein already fietsbob? run that one by me one more time? cheers!

prathmann

Yes, that's the idea. As long as you have a chain tool along you could at least cobble it together well enough to ride to the nearest town that has a bike shop where you could replace the derailleur. Horizontal dropouts work fine with QR as long as you have a decent skewer - standard Shimano and Campy work well, but lots of the weight-weenie ones don't hold firmly enough.

fietsbob

No, it's still coffee time on the Pacific Coast.. ~o)

It's no accident so many bikes sold with indexed shifting systems
are using vertical dropouts.

the pulley to cog distance changes with the axle location in the dropout.
Long horizontal has a variance possible ..


Want to cover a potential fixie or IG hub in the future on a custom frame?
Specify an eccentric BB..

Rohloff other than the retrofit long aluminum arm,
uses a long vertical left dropout . OEM 1 dropout mounted torque tab.

though optional OEM 2 fork tab fits over a bolt head, on the inside of the frame.
the location of that bolt head is to be same as ISO disc brake mount,
nearest hub axis,
so something any framebuilder can measure and plan for.

I do need a drink.. Prost !


from Astoria, where the vowels come cheap, apparently, as Finns
use them 2 at a time.. Suomi outnumber the Swedes Here.

imi

gotcha fietsbob... Skål!

NoReg

Verticals are where it's at these days, but as usual, if this thread was about something else like "hey, I want to use a vintage frame", none of this nonsense would come up. My very first Peugeot, came with fenders, horizontal drops, quick releases. No problem, and I was 12 or 13. My mom had a similar bike with wing nuts, though it was 3 speed. There wasn't any problem with consistent length, one just bottomed the wheel in the horizontal drops or the drops with adjusters. I don't know why verticals are better, I always assumed it was because it is somewhat more difficult, to hold a wheel to the rear while tightening the skewer, sorta a three hand job for those who have difficulties programing a VCR. Not something I would worry about in a world where one should be competent at switching out drive-side spokes.

staehpj1

I prefer vertical drop outs for ease of aligning wheel in frame and ease of wheel removal with fenders.

That is a blast from the past... I had kind of forgotten that bikes ever had wing nuts, but I do recall that my second "10 speed", a Gitane, did.

imi

hihi, I am competent at tightening skewers and keeping the wheel straight, programming VCRs and switching out drive-side spokes! but when it comes to ordering a custom frame there are many decisions that have to be made - Thanks everyone for helping me out here

MichaelW

Vertical dropouts are shorter and stiffer than horizontal ones so the whole rear end stiffens up.
The various roadside cassette removal tools seem to work better with vertical dropouts.
Horizontal dropouts give you better degradation, you can revert to singlespeed in an emergency. It is a bit more effort to remove the wheel and with a wider tyre, you have to deflate to do so.
The modern universal standard is vertical. Only a few traditional builders (such as Bob Jackson) supply the horizontal as standard on tourers.

fuzz2050

Don't forget, the world of dropouts now extends beyond simply vertical or horizontal. You also have the new-fangled option of sliding dropouts, all the benefits of vertical dropouts, with all the advantages of horizontal dropouts. And a new set of disadvantages.

Doohickie

My commuter which I put a lot of miles on has verticals, and it's always been aligned just right, even with 4 different rear wheels I've used on the bike.

Tourist in MSN

I think that some Bike Fridays have replaceable dropouts for different types of gearing systems (derailleur versus Rohloff, etc.). I have not seen them but I think that I saw some photos of such on the internet. If so and if your frame builder can buy the Bike Friday dropouts you want initially and build the chain and seat stays for that setup, that gives you more options later.

But, if you are certain that you would not want those options later, skip it.

fietsbob

The Paragon hyperlinked in #18, is a custom frame favorite for big wheels ..
Rohloff website has engineering PDF drawings for another type of sliding dropout ,
for manufacture by any machine shop, in several configurations
including ones for derailleurs, and even a left one to mount a kickstand on the slider.