ninamaxine

Assuming a reasonable fit (though that WILL be an issue for me at 5 feet tall with a very short torso), can anyone fill me in on the difference in the experience between riding say, a Surly/Salsa/Soma, versus a Waterford/Bilenky/etc.?

I'm leaning toward a custom touring bike anyway due to the fit issue, but if on the off chance I could find a reasonable production frame to dress up with lovely components, is there any reason not to go in that direction?

I have a limited frame of reference - my only non-city bike is a Homer Hilsen that honestly could fit better, so I know what that ride quality is like (and love it!). My understanding is that the HH is something like a production fit with custom quality - right? Anyway, so that's what I'm familiar with, and leaving fit aside, will I feel a quality difference with a Surly/Salsa/Soma frame?

Many thanks!

antokelly

if i had the bucks i would most definitely go the custom route.
simply because you get exactly what your little heart desires.
take a look at a guy on my side of the pond called Paul Villers his bike are pure class.

Cyclesafe

You get a fancier grade of steel which is lighter/stronger than the perfectly acceptable 41xx cro-mo steel used in "production" bicycles. You'll get better welds, a choice of colors, the cachet of a premium brand, an option of couplers, and disc brake fittings. None of these IMHO are reasons by themselves or collectively to go custom.

Having said that I have two custom touring bikes, an Americano that I bought the year before the LHT came out, and an Independent Fabrications Steel Deluxe that I bought the year before the Fargo came out. No regrets, but what the hell.....

sjt78

I think you have great timing. You need to plan another custom bike that is different than those two so next year I can buy the same thing from Surly or Salsa...

safariofthemind

Mostly what you get is a better fit. For most people this is not a big issue, but everyone differs from the "ideal" measurements that the production oriented makers use. There is only so much that can be fixed with stems and seat positioning.

The catch is that, like fine wine or any ultra-luxury product, once the economies of scale of a production line disappear you are back to middle-ages economics: you are paying for time plus materials. That extra 10 per cent can easily double the price of a bike. On the other hand, if you are more than 1 standard deviation from "average" Joe, it's priceless.

Cyclebum

1+

I get the impression that you've got enough cycling experience to know what you(the op) want. You ride a Rivendell, so you are a discriminating person who appreciates quality.

Considering your size, go custom. Less risky than a build out from a stock frame that you won't know for sure what you've got until it's finished. The odds of finding a stock touring bike in your size, on the floor for a test ride, are near zero.

Fly out to Oregon for a fitting by Co-Motion. It'll be fun and educational. Very nice plant. Hang the cost. You only live once, and deserve a bike that feels like an extension of your body.

positron

Pretty lugs is what it gets you.

The ride will be the same, assuming the geometries and steel are similar.

For example, the surly LHT is essentially, functionally, the same thing as a Riv Atlantis.

that said, for a "light touring frame" Id look at Bob Jackson or Mercian from the UK, which are both custom/production builders. (IE you can go custom or specify geometry or just buy off the peg with added brazeons/options...)

ninamaxine

A helpful bunch we have here . . . this is exactly what I was wondering, thanks! It sounds like no one is especially blown away by custom bikes except to resolve fit issues.

And Cyclebum, it just so happens I'm going to be in Oregon in a couple of months, so I looked into Co-Motion (for the first time), and the Nor'wester Tour looks worth investigating! I'd love to have a professional give me their thoughts on fit, and I'll definitely take the short hop over from Portland to see them. And if by "discriminating" you mean "had no idea there was a whole world of 'road' bikes out there not made for racing and was pretty sure Homer Hilsen was some kind of marvelous new invention," then you're right about me. It wasn't a bad place to start, but I do think being "more than one standard deviation from the Average Joe" will require me to replace it one day.

Thanks all!

LeeG

If 5' implies someone less than 125lbs you could probably use lighter tubing and wheels than is common with production touring bikes. I would think that light 26" wheel touring bikes for 5' people aren't very common.

Cyclebum

No, no. For you, I meant 'discriminating' as a knowledgeable person, sure of what she wanted, and not willing to accept less.

Your definition fit me 6 years ago.

Custom bike for fit. And panache. Some do become family heirlooms, likely to show up on Antique Roadshow 100 years from now. Wonder if any of my kids will be fighting over who gets the bike? Fit is so weird, none of them could ride it. Will not be a candidate for the Roadshow.

Bacciagalupe

I agree with most of the above posters, in that in a touring context, other than the custom fit I don't think you gain much with a higher-end frame. Nice lugs are not going to get you from Point A to Point B any faster, easier, more comfortably and/or pleasantly.

On a side note, I tend to beat up my bikes a bit. It still kinda sucks to scuff up a $1500 touring bike; it'd suck much more if the bike cost me $4000.

jimblairo

You will probably get a 650 wheel size to avoid toe overlap and a fit that will allow you to ride long distances without pain.

positron

dont get me wrong: customs are amazing- see JP Weigle <3, Bilenky or Vanilla...

And I also really agree with LeeG above. You can (if needed) spec different lighter-weight steel, wheelsize etc. etc. for a different functionality...

But unless you really want something particular and unusual, most people, most of the time can find a production model bike that will work for them.

Case in point: my Chas roberts Roughstuff, a custom-built 26" wheel expedition touring bike designed for drop bars. When it was made in 1992, the only thing similar would have been a converted MTB, which would have suffered from a too-high bottom bracket and shorter wheelbase.

Today i could go buy a 26" wheeled surly LHT, (or a rivendell) and have most of the features that required a custom design 20 years ago...

Another example would be a 650B low-trail (randonneuring) bike: 5 years ago that design was met by either custom-built or a vintage french bike...
Today you can buy a boulder bicycles or similar "production" frame

Only you know if your sizing is "abnormal" enough to benefit from custom, but the vast majority of people will fit on a production frame. If so, the only reason to choose custom is to get something really unique/artsy etc.

fietsbob

You get one built for your size weight and the purpose to which you plan to use it..

If you plan loaded touring , light tube sets may not be what you need..

then its the weight you are carrying on your bags that will suggest
a sturdier frame..

if touring is just going for a day ride with a nice lunch at the turnaround

then the design criteria are different.

BengeBoy 

Co-Motion are great folks; I've visited with them at bike shows several times but have not toured the factory.

CGOAB had a great piece on how their factory/shop works; really worth reading for anyone who wants to understand the quality differences in bikes; I found this very impressive:

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?...c_id=6238&v=6B

Of course there are also a ton of bike builders and great bike shops in Portland...plenty worth checking out.

Philly Tandem

Bilenky in Philadelphia also makes really nice custom bikes. I'm not sure where you are located, but if you are in that area, definitely give them a look.

They have a demo/closeout page on their website, and I just noticed they have a bike listed there that might work for you. Check out the "Signature Tourlite" posted at https://bilenky.com/Marketplace.html

tarwheel 

If I had the money, I would order a custom frame, but I don't have any trouble getting proper fit by shopping around. There are substantial fit differences among the various frame manufacturers, so you are likely to find something close to your needs by shopping around.

The main advantages to buying custom are:
- Better fit if none of the stock frame geometries work for you.
- Choice of paint color.
- Potentially better construction and attention to detail.
- Choice of tubing to suit your needs, and possibly lighter weight.

The main disadvantages to custom are the high costs and potentially long wait times. Some custom builders have very long waiting lists and build times, and others are notorious for taking longer to build frames that they estimate for customers.

I bought a new "off the peg" Bob Jackson World Tour about two years ago, mainly for use as a commuter bike with occasional touring. It was custom in the sense that I could choose any paint color, decals and trim but I had no input on the geometry. I can't complain about the price ($630 including shipping and insurance from England), but the frame had a shorter head tube than they told me it would be. I got around that by using a head-tube extender, but that sort of issue could be avoided by going customer -- for a price. A custom BJ would have cost me about $400 more and would have taken at least 6 months longer to receive.

After I bought my BJ, Soma came out with the new Saga, which would have been a perfect fit for me. The new Salsa Casseroll is also a perfect fit for me, and I just ordered one to use as a second commuter bike. I had considered ordering a Gunnar Sport, but the Casseroll cost half as much and its geometry was identical to what I would have specified if ordering a custom frame.

acantor

If you opt for custom, place high value on using a local builder. I bought a custom touring bicycle seven years ago from someone only 90 minutes from my home, and it has been hugely advantageous to have easy access to the shop. Over the years, I have returned several times to have the bicycle adjusted, upgraded, and repaired – one of the tubes was dented in an accident.

Great customer service is harder to get if you need to haul your bicycle hundreds or thousands of miles!

eofelis 

I am about your size and I lean heavily towards steel touring and sport touring type bikes.

My first road bike was a 42cm Surly Pacer. Frame and fork are cheap: ~$400. Not light and fast, but very comfortable and stable. Bombproof. With a rack on it it's a great sport tourer. In that size the eTT is 50cm and standover is 70cm with the 700c wheels. The 42cm LHT has 26" wheels but has the same eTT and standover as the Pacer. The 42cm Cross Check is "larger" by 2cm in those dimensions.

(btw, I do have my 42cm Pacer frame for sale, frame only, no fork)

I looked at Soma frames because they look awesome, but the smallest seems to be too big for me. Salsa used to (still do??) make a steel Pistola road bike frame in a 41cm size but I haven't seen one for sale lately. If you call Salsa they might know if there is still one out there somewhere at a dealer. If I did see one I might scoop it up because I tend to hoard any decent steel frames in my size that I happen to find!

I moved away from the Pacer when I got a custom sized steel Gunnar Sport frame. I had been thinking of a custom size Gunnar because it's quite reasonably priced: ~$1200. Then I found someone else's tiny custom Sport on ebay that happened to be my size, with 700c wheels. (The smallest production Sport frames have 650c wheels.) I put the steel fork from the Pacer on it and it's a great ride. It has quite long chainstays and I can put panniers on it just fine.

I do have toe overlap on most of my bikes and I don't consider it a problem. I don't do trackstands anyways.


As for comparing the Pacer and the Sport: They both ride very very nice. The Sport is just a bit lighter and faster. Just a bit.
I worry about the Sport more. The Pacer is much harder to dent or scratch (powdercoated) and easily replaceable if it does get damaged. The Sport dents easily and I had mine powdercoated because the Gunnar paint chips easily. I love the Sport but I'm not sure if I'd bother getting it replaced ($$) if it got irrepairably damaged.

MichaelW

Bearing in mind your spec of "Light Touring" then a custom frame is going to be much lighter in weight than a typical, stock, touring frame such as LHT.
You can spec:
Smaller wheels, either 26" MTB or 650C.
Lighter-weight tubing:
Lower bottom bracket for small cranks.
Your choice of steerer (threaded/unthreaded, 1", 1 1/8")
Braze-ons, cable-routing.
Brakes; caliper (long/std), cantilever, disc.

You should investigate all the production and stock options before deciding if you really need custom design.

late

My wife is 5' 2" and I got her a 650b.

She loves it.

I was so impressed, I got a 650b for myself.

She had tried a number of bikes before that, and there were always
problems.

Bike Hermit

ninamaxine, I'm sort of surprised your Rivendell doesn't fit you that well. Did you buy it from Rivendell? They are usually fanatical about sizing and fit. I tour on my A. Homer Hilsen even though that is not the bike's purpose. And I just got this in the mail yesterday! <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/45715354@N06/5551011715/" title="59 cm Rivendell Roadeo by Jim Powers2009, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5307/...a75bced71a.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="59 cm Rivendell Roadeo" /></a>
So, I'm a fan. Have you considered a Sam Hillborne from Riv?

Pukeskywalker

I'm about to put together a Nashbar touring frame (aluminum) w/the Nashbar carbon cyclocross fork. Should be pretty light for a touring bike. The standard nashbar touring fork weights a ton, so I would avoid that piece if you go this route.

indyfabz

FWIW, last month I bought a Surly LHT for my girlfriend. She is also 5' with a short torso. Got her the 42 cm, the smallest they make. It was the only production bike I could find that, based on listed specs, would fit her. She likes the fit. Fortunately, a LBS had one in stock so she got to test ride it first.

If I could justify it, I would go custom. Being from Bilenky Town, I will put in a plug for them. Interesting place. Looking at it from the outside, you would never guess that bikes like that (or anything else of such quality) come from a place like that. It's next to/part of a junkyard in a neighborhood that has seen better days. But the people are super nice. I paid them a visit when, for liability reasons, no LBS would enlarge some holes in my rear rack so I could retrofit it to a new bike. They hooked me up on the spot, initially refused to take any money, offered me something to eat and gave me a tour of the shop. After pushing them, they told me to give them $7, which, as it tunred out, was all I had in my wallet. Looking at it one way, you can say they took me for everything that I had.

sam.g

I agree wholeheartedly with going custom if you are concerned about fit and have the disposable income. Touring isn't about just getting from point A to point B, as Harley Davidson's ads state: "it's about the journey not the destination". Touring on a lighter weight, nicely appointed and properly fit bike can make for a far more enjoyable experience. There's nothing wrong with a LHT, Saga or 520, but why drive a Chevy if you have the where with all to swing a Caddy?

Do check out Waterford's T-14 and T-22 touring frames. I walked into my local shop who is a dealer for both Co-Motion and Waterford fully intending to buy an Americano but ended up ordering a Waterford lugged T-22. Should have it in April and will post pictures when finished.

Sam in Cincy