A Bike in a Box.
10-18-11 | 10:10 AM
#26
totally louche
Joined: Oct 2004
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Likes: 12
From: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
I'm pretty confident showing up at most domestic air carriers with that Tardis ground effects bag Nun uses, holding a bike frame, wheels, and even a not-quite-ultralite bike touring assemblage.....
and you're going to get tagged for oversized luggage. There's no two ways around it. its an oversized bag. you'll have to pick a carrier with generous baggage policies.
i know guys who play bike polo and fly with SNS-equipped bikes in soft bags, and they get tagged when the bag is even fractionally over the 26" x 26" x 10" linear dimension airline standard cuttoff for oversize luggage.
and you're going to get tagged for oversized luggage. There's no two ways around it. its an oversized bag. you'll have to pick a carrier with generous baggage policies.
i know guys who play bike polo and fly with SNS-equipped bikes in soft bags, and they get tagged when the bag is even fractionally over the 26" x 26" x 10" linear dimension airline standard cuttoff for oversize luggage.
Last edited by Bekologist; 10-18-11 at 10:13 AM.
10-18-11 | 11:19 AM
#27
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,670
Likes: 43
Bikes: Rivendell Quickbeam, Rivendell Rambouillet, Rivendell Atlantis, Circle A town bike, De Rosa Neo Primato, Cervelo RS, Specialized Diverge
I'm pretty confident showing up at most domestic air carriers with that Tardis ground effects bag Nun uses, holding a bike frame, wheels, and even a not-quite-ultralite bike touring assemblage.....
and you're going to get tagged for oversized luggage. There's no two ways around it. its an oversized bag. you'll have to pick a carrier with generous baggage policies.
i know guys who play bike polo and fly with SNS-equipped bikes in soft bags, and they get tagged when the bag is even fractionally over the 26" x 26" x 10" linear dimension airline standard cuttoff for oversize luggage.
and you're going to get tagged for oversized luggage. There's no two ways around it. its an oversized bag. you'll have to pick a carrier with generous baggage policies.
i know guys who play bike polo and fly with SNS-equipped bikes in soft bags, and they get tagged when the bag is even fractionally over the 26" x 26" x 10" linear dimension airline standard cuttoff for oversize luggage.
10-18-11 | 11:50 AM
#28
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Bicycle Repair Man !!!
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: YEG
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Yeee Hawww 
My arvon2 is ALIVE!!
Arvon earlier sent me the pics of the bike totally disassembled AND totally inside the 26" X 26" X 12" box, and another with the box folded up into a 26" X 13" x 1.5" layer sitting on the rear rack. It will be fun to ride, once I fly back to Canada and pick it up.
I am not sure of the actual box dimensions (as built 26" or 20", and 10" or 12"). No matter, as long as the bike fits into it and the box folds to fit on the rear rack shelf
Please ask Arvon if the front rack will hold 2 panniers on the side - hope so...
My arvon2 is ALIVE!!Arvon earlier sent me the pics of the bike totally disassembled AND totally inside the 26" X 26" X 12" box, and another with the box folded up into a 26" X 13" x 1.5" layer sitting on the rear rack. It will be fun to ride, once I fly back to Canada and pick it up.
I am not sure of the actual box dimensions (as built 26" or 20", and 10" or 12"). No matter, as long as the bike fits into it and the box folds to fit on the rear rack shelf
Please ask Arvon if the front rack will hold 2 panniers on the side - hope so...
Thought you would like some pictures...
The box is 20 by 20... started with 26 by 26 but found it would pack even smaller and the box fits perfectly on the rack and is 2 inches high when folded.
10-18-11 | 12:00 PM
#29
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Bicycle Repair Man !!!
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From: YEG
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I am intrigued by the concept of a mini velo like folding tour bike. That one doesn't suit my tastes for many reasons, but if it rides the way you like that is really what it is all about. I would personally want lower bars than that length head tube would allow. Also unless it is intended for mostly off road touring I'd rather have drop bars.
Are those racks exceptionally long or do they just look that way due to the small wheels?
Are those racks exceptionally long or do they just look that way due to the small wheels?
Think you are referring to the longer top tube... it is a custom built bike for a custom built guy who is a little taller and bigger than average.
I really enjoyed the test ride... this is a stable and extremely nimble bike with a great ride quality.
10-18-11 | 12:05 PM
#30
totally louche
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 18,023
Likes: 12
From: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
For starters, its oversized airline luggage.
Maybe there's going to be a swing back to generous luggage policies for bikes in boxes and bags, but i haven't seen much movement in airline luggage policies to suggest that a bag carrying a standard bike frame is going to be a zero sum game at MOST airline luggage counters.
there's a reason bikes get SNS couplers or otherwise fold up small.
Making it easy to meet standard airline dimensions is one of the primary reasons for a coupled, take apart touring bike.
I like the folding box BTW.... can i get one in 26" 26" x 10" ??
Last edited by Bekologist; 10-18-11 at 12:09 PM.
10-18-11 | 12:05 PM
#31
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Bicycle Repair Man !!!
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From: YEG
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People think my P20 is an odd looking bike and can't believe it gets ridden as far and fast as it does and for me it comes down to how well it rides and performs.
10-18-11 | 12:07 PM
#32
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From: Tallahassee, FL
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Nope, I was referring to the head tube. I prefer my bars 4-5" below the saddle and it looked like that might be hard to accomplish based on the picture. Judging by the tall stacks of spacers on so many bikes, I am an anomaly in that regard though and that might be a plus for a lot of riders.
BTW, any idea what the case weighs?
BTW, any idea what the case weighs?
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Check out my profile, articles, and trip journals at:
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Pete in Tallahassee
Check out my profile, articles, and trip journals at:
https:/www.crazyguyonabike.com/staehpj1
10-18-11 | 12:29 PM
#33
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Tallahassee, FL
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It could also be said that there is a reason why you see so few folders or coupled bikes on tour.
For folks who fly all over taking a bike with them on business trips the advantages are huge, but I have to guess that on average most of us fly to one tour a year or maybe even less. We also need to get our boxes or bags from the beginning of the tour to the end. So most hard cases just don't work out for many of us.
Getting to my tours, I typically just try very hard to use Southwest or Frontier and am happy to pay the $50 to have my bike go along on Southwest or FREE on Frontier. To get home I have been happy to have a bike shop pack it up and ship it home to save me having to deal with packing and moving a big box in a strange city. For domestic US travel that usually means $100 between the bike shop and the carrier.
For folks who fly all over taking a bike with them on business trips the advantages are huge, but I have to guess that on average most of us fly to one tour a year or maybe even less. We also need to get our boxes or bags from the beginning of the tour to the end. So most hard cases just don't work out for many of us.
Getting to my tours, I typically just try very hard to use Southwest or Frontier and am happy to pay the $50 to have my bike go along on Southwest or FREE on Frontier. To get home I have been happy to have a bike shop pack it up and ship it home to save me having to deal with packing and moving a big box in a strange city. For domestic US travel that usually means $100 between the bike shop and the carrier.
__________________
Pete in Tallahassee
Check out my profile, articles, and trip journals at:
https:/www.crazyguyonabike.com/staehpj1
Pete in Tallahassee
Check out my profile, articles, and trip journals at:
https:/www.crazyguyonabike.com/staehpj1
10-18-11 | 12:50 PM
#34
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Bicycle Repair Man !!!
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Let me explain how arvon2 came into being, and why I decided to have Arvon Stacey design and build it for MY own requirements...
I have sat on (and rode on) a LOT of bikes and MOST don't fit me worth s**t - even though they obviously fit a LOT of people. Fewer fit me now that I have a SS leg brace. Touring on a Brommie and others like my R-20 is a no-starter because they don't fit me well enough for travel. The distance from the seat to the handlebars is just too short. Remember I am 6'5" and that also gives you an indication of my leg/arm/torso length.
My arvon1 fits great - because it was built to fit ME. This past summer (July-Aug) I toured in AU with it. Trouble was the weight of it and my Bob Ibex trailer precluded it's going as checked baggage. THAT got me thinking more than ever about other designs...
Arvon2 was built for function (aka sustained touring, not some short jaunt to the local shop) AND fit (as in it MUST fit ME), NOT for appearance ( I paid for, and wanted racks because after all this bike IS for touring). I also chose the BRG colour, but the other "possible" colour option was "Beer Bottle Brown". I frankly rest my case there as I paid for it, AND Arvon and I discussed my requirements - like the Al box. He has seemed to have solved the requirements, and now I will really field test it next July-August between Perth and Adelaide. Besides, arvon1 needs 2 suitcases if I want to take it apart at the S&S connectors.... Arvon2 was specifically designed and built to deal with that particular issue when touring away from "home".
At my 63 years I am going for function AND comfort. That is why I bought a (Hilleberg) Nallo 2 GT tent instead of a Eureka (of which I have 2 from my previous life camping as a family of 2 - boys now grown up and gone). The Nallo inner and fly set up together in a rain while the Eureka (and North Face, and ...) set up the inner first, and then the outer. Not exactly good in rain. Function in the dry is fine, but....
I am sure my purchases (bike, tent, etc) will do me well. My call, and my bills to pay
I have sat on (and rode on) a LOT of bikes and MOST don't fit me worth s**t - even though they obviously fit a LOT of people. Fewer fit me now that I have a SS leg brace. Touring on a Brommie and others like my R-20 is a no-starter because they don't fit me well enough for travel. The distance from the seat to the handlebars is just too short. Remember I am 6'5" and that also gives you an indication of my leg/arm/torso length.
My arvon1 fits great - because it was built to fit ME. This past summer (July-Aug) I toured in AU with it. Trouble was the weight of it and my Bob Ibex trailer precluded it's going as checked baggage. THAT got me thinking more than ever about other designs...
Arvon2 was built for function (aka sustained touring, not some short jaunt to the local shop) AND fit (as in it MUST fit ME), NOT for appearance ( I paid for, and wanted racks because after all this bike IS for touring). I also chose the BRG colour, but the other "possible" colour option was "Beer Bottle Brown". I frankly rest my case there as I paid for it, AND Arvon and I discussed my requirements - like the Al box. He has seemed to have solved the requirements, and now I will really field test it next July-August between Perth and Adelaide. Besides, arvon1 needs 2 suitcases if I want to take it apart at the S&S connectors.... Arvon2 was specifically designed and built to deal with that particular issue when touring away from "home".
At my 63 years I am going for function AND comfort. That is why I bought a (Hilleberg) Nallo 2 GT tent instead of a Eureka (of which I have 2 from my previous life camping as a family of 2 - boys now grown up and gone). The Nallo inner and fly set up together in a rain while the Eureka (and North Face, and ...) set up the inner first, and then the outer. Not exactly good in rain. Function in the dry is fine, but....
I am sure my purchases (bike, tent, etc) will do me well. My call, and my bills to pay
10-18-11 | 01:11 PM
#35
Thread Starter
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: YEG
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Nope, I was referring to the head tube. I prefer my bars 4-5" below the saddle and it looked like that might be hard to accomplish based on the picture. Judging by the tall stacks of spacers on so many bikes, I am an anomaly in that regard though and that might be a plus for a lot of riders.
BTW, any idea what the case weighs?
BTW, any idea what the case weighs?
The tall head tube allows for a regular stem to be used with no spacers and eliminates the need for an extra long stem and seat tube as you often see on folders due to their low slung monotube design.
10-18-11 | 05:02 PM
#36
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,670
Likes: 43
Bikes: Rivendell Quickbeam, Rivendell Rambouillet, Rivendell Atlantis, Circle A town bike, De Rosa Neo Primato, Cervelo RS, Specialized Diverge
I'm pretty confident showing up at most domestic air carriers with that Tardis ground effects bag Nun uses, holding a bike frame, wheels, and even a not-quite-ultralite bike touring assemblage.....
and you're going to get tagged for oversized luggage. There's no two ways around it. its an oversized bag. you'll have to pick a carrier with generous baggage policies.
i know guys who play bike polo and fly with SNS-equipped bikes in soft bags, and they get tagged when the bag is even fractionally over the 26" x 26" x 10" linear dimension airline standard cuttoff for oversize luggage.
and you're going to get tagged for oversized luggage. There's no two ways around it. its an oversized bag. you'll have to pick a carrier with generous baggage policies.
i know guys who play bike polo and fly with SNS-equipped bikes in soft bags, and they get tagged when the bag is even fractionally over the 26" x 26" x 10" linear dimension airline standard cuttoff for oversize luggage.
My system was designed with international flying in mind and it has worked well as I can easily get my stuff into a taxi, no messing about with bike boxes or multiple bags and I have never been charged for over weight or over size.
10-18-11 | 09:56 PM
#37
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 969
Likes: 19
From: Coimbra, Portugal
Bikes: More bicycles than I can ride at one time: 2 custom made tourers, a Brompton 6-speed, and an Indian-made roadster.
Arvon Stacey does not have a web site. He can be reached at arvon1@hotmail.com. Arvon is a busy man and has more than enough work from a whole line of custom builders. 65er can give you some links to articles about him (Edmonton papers, etc).
10-18-11 | 10:01 PM
#38
Thread Starter
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 27,266
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From: YEG
Bikes: See my sig...
I work with Arvon and Arvon Cycles so can serve as a point of contact or you can contact Arvon directly.
You can PM me if you want details on cost / breakdowns.
Intent here was not to sell a bike but to show off what I think is a fabulous little design and get feedback but if we spend the winter building more of these I won't have a problem with that.
You can PM me if you want details on cost / breakdowns.
Intent here was not to sell a bike but to show off what I think is a fabulous little design and get feedback but if we spend the winter building more of these I won't have a problem with that.
10-18-11 | 10:53 PM
#39
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Joined: Jul 2011
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I like it, It actually looks better than I would have thought for the size of the rider. Well done.
10-18-11 | 10:54 PM
#40
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 969
Likes: 19
From: Coimbra, Portugal
Bikes: More bicycles than I can ride at one time: 2 custom made tourers, a Brompton 6-speed, and an Indian-made roadster.
I work with Arvon and Arvon Cycles so can serve as a point of contact or you can contact Arvon directly.
You can PM me if you want details on cost / breakdowns.
Intent here was not to sell a bike but to show off what I think is a fabulous little design and get feedback but if we spend the winter building more of these I won't have a problem with that.
You can PM me if you want details on cost / breakdowns.
Intent here was not to sell a bike but to show off what I think is a fabulous little design and get feedback but if we spend the winter building more of these I won't have a problem with that.
It took a lot of time to design and build arvon2. Arvon Stacey uses excellent materials for his builds, cuts no corners (after all he builds each one as a custom order), AND has an excellent guarantee. He builds all sorts of bikes, but has certain favourite designs because they have proven themselves in the continuous field test world of customers... OTOH, as arvon2 proves, he is quite willing to rise to a challenging order and bust his a** to make things work well. Mind you, there is a double cost involved - we all know about time and money
The only other "next order" I can think of is for a trike to be built. I have a Greenspeed GTO and wheels and kingpins for another, so someday maybe a custom built one incorporating some additional features found on other trikes
10-18-11 | 11:03 PM
#41
Thread Starter
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
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From: YEG
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tmac - Have been looking at designing a trike here and am also looking at another shop space here in the city so Arvon and I will each have room to move and will continue to collaborate.
He keeps telling me he is thinking of retiring some day and will be handing me the torch... could not have received a higher compliment than this from anyone.
He keeps telling me he is thinking of retiring some day and will be handing me the torch... could not have received a higher compliment than this from anyone.
10-18-11 | 11:07 PM
#42
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
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That might be the case regardless. I got some bars that split in the middle from SJS Cycles. The reason for them is to mount twist shifters on drops, but they also serve the purpose of being reduceable in size and packing awkwardness. They don't sell the clamp, but it would be an easy build for Arvon. Minimum width, untrimed is 570 mm. I like wide bars, but obviously you can trim them to suit.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-2-p...mps-prod11349/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-2-p...mps-prod11349/
10-18-11 | 11:43 PM
#43
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 969
Likes: 19
From: Coimbra, Portugal
Bikes: More bicycles than I can ride at one time: 2 custom made tourers, a Brompton 6-speed, and an Indian-made roadster.
That might be the case regardless. I got some bars that split in the middle from SJS Cycles. The reason for them is to mount twist shifters on drops, but they also serve the purpose of being reduceable in size and packing awkwardness. They don't sell the clamp, but it would be an easy build for Arvon. Minimum width, untrimed is 570 mm. I like wide bars, but obviously you can trim them to suit.
He then patiently explained why it would cause major problems with his design and the intent of the bike - so I used the KISS principle, listened to him and went for an 8-speed. Let me see how it works this next tour
10-19-11 | 06:11 AM
#44
totally louche
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 18,023
Likes: 12
From: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
It could also be said that there is a reason why you see so few folders or coupled bikes on tour.
For folks who fly all over taking a bike with them on business trips the advantages are huge, but I have to guess that on average most of us fly to one tour a year or maybe even less. We also need to get our boxes or bags from the beginning of the tour to the end. So most hard cases just don't work out for many of us.
Getting to my tours, I typically just try very hard to use Southwest or Frontier and am happy to pay the $50 to have my bike go along on Southwest or FREE on Frontier. To get home I have been happy to have a bike shop pack it up and ship it home to save me having to deal with packing and moving a big box in a strange city. For domestic US travel that usually means $100 between the bike shop and the carrier.
For folks who fly all over taking a bike with them on business trips the advantages are huge, but I have to guess that on average most of us fly to one tour a year or maybe even less. We also need to get our boxes or bags from the beginning of the tour to the end. So most hard cases just don't work out for many of us.
Getting to my tours, I typically just try very hard to use Southwest or Frontier and am happy to pay the $50 to have my bike go along on Southwest or FREE on Frontier. To get home I have been happy to have a bike shop pack it up and ship it home to save me having to deal with packing and moving a big box in a strange city. For domestic US travel that usually means $100 between the bike shop and the carrier.
There's a reason a few of us get coupled or folding bikes for traveling - the convenience of portaging it. I've travelled with bikes both ways, and schlepping a cardboard box with a bike in it is a hassle. I feel like i could even toss out a thumb and hitchike with a suitcase bike. not a bike in a cardboard box.
but hey, YMMV and your needs for touring vary as well. for a tourist taking one trip a year buying a coupled bike isnt' a requirement to fly with your bike. and you're right, the cost is small relative to the trip, and why not?
I certainly recommend if people have to choose between a vacation with their existing bike, or buying a new bike and not going on a bike tour to go on the bike tour!
if you like to travel, and are buying a new bike for that express purpose, considering a coupled bike is quite sensible.
Which is why some people travel with a custom Arvon bicycle, or other coupled beast.
Last edited by Bekologist; 10-19-11 at 06:15 AM.
10-19-11 | 01:27 PM
#45
Thread Starter
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
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From: YEG
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A good number of people like their coupled bicycles and we also build and retrofit a lot of bikes with S&S couplers which do tend to add a lot to the cost of a finished frame.
We have one expedition tandem that can also be a triplet, single long tail tourer, and has a kid along attachment which is all made possible because of S&S couplers... and it sees a lot of use in many ways. It belongs to a friend who will ride to the coast with his wife in a tandem mode and when he arrives there, meets up with the single rear section (which he ships ahead) so he can ride back solo while his wife does business there or returns by plane.
More people are using folders for touring and Bike Friday probably has done the best job in building a tour worthy folder that excels in the ride quality department... am seeing more and more people going this route.
Most of my long distance riding is done on a folder which is a highly modified Phillip's 20... I built around the base H frame to retain the excellent hinge assembly which also allows the bike to be separated and packed in a much smaller and airline friendly package.
From this I will probably build a one off incorporating a similar hinge for folding and S&S couplers for more compact packing for travel... because I can do this kind of work and enjoy the challenges of design and building and stepping outside the box.
We have one expedition tandem that can also be a triplet, single long tail tourer, and has a kid along attachment which is all made possible because of S&S couplers... and it sees a lot of use in many ways. It belongs to a friend who will ride to the coast with his wife in a tandem mode and when he arrives there, meets up with the single rear section (which he ships ahead) so he can ride back solo while his wife does business there or returns by plane.
More people are using folders for touring and Bike Friday probably has done the best job in building a tour worthy folder that excels in the ride quality department... am seeing more and more people going this route.
Most of my long distance riding is done on a folder which is a highly modified Phillip's 20... I built around the base H frame to retain the excellent hinge assembly which also allows the bike to be separated and packed in a much smaller and airline friendly package.
From this I will probably build a one off incorporating a similar hinge for folding and S&S couplers for more compact packing for travel... because I can do this kind of work and enjoy the challenges of design and building and stepping outside the box.
10-19-11 | 10:52 PM
#46
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,911
Likes: 1,242
From: Montreal Canada
that bike is a neat looking little number, neat to hear that it rides well also.
but holy banana seat, the chain is loose on the Mustang! Must be from popping all those rad wheelies so much.
but holy banana seat, the chain is loose on the Mustang! Must be from popping all those rad wheelies so much.
11-15-11 | 11:23 AM
#48
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 969
Likes: 19
From: Coimbra, Portugal
Bikes: More bicycles than I can ride at one time: 2 custom made tourers, a Brompton 6-speed, and an Indian-made roadster.
I am back from a quick trip to Canada, suffering from jetlag (1st night over the Atlantic with 2 hrs sleep and second night via Doha with no sleep). Arvon2 and other bags arrived 2 days after they were left behind at Heathrow and is still in it's box - too tired to open it. Besides, it isn't Christmas yet
As an aside, I got arvon2 on a Greyhound with my second bag by claiming it was a custom built wheelchair
They saw my crutches, shrugged and let it on with no charge. The airlines did the same. Well, it does have wheels and I can sit on it, so..
Now to the point of this.
The bars allow only one basic hand position and I think I should get "bar ends" to increase my hand positions while touring. This past summer with drop bars I got tingling in my first 2 fingers on both hands, which has disappeared since I have stopped touring for a while. I have never used bar ends because I use drop bars on my tourer/road bikes. I see some bar ends are just tubes, but others have "grooves" for fingers. Any advantages to either for touring? Any suggestions as to which to buy - or just go for the cheapest? Short ones (almost just a stub tube) or longer tubes? How about more (thicker) bar tape (with gel layer??).
Remember my size and the fact that next June-August I'll be bicycling across part of southern Australia, and ...
Thanks in advance.
As an aside, I got arvon2 on a Greyhound with my second bag by claiming it was a custom built wheelchair
They saw my crutches, shrugged and let it on with no charge. The airlines did the same. Well, it does have wheels and I can sit on it, so..Now to the point of this.
The bars allow only one basic hand position and I think I should get "bar ends" to increase my hand positions while touring. This past summer with drop bars I got tingling in my first 2 fingers on both hands, which has disappeared since I have stopped touring for a while. I have never used bar ends because I use drop bars on my tourer/road bikes. I see some bar ends are just tubes, but others have "grooves" for fingers. Any advantages to either for touring? Any suggestions as to which to buy - or just go for the cheapest? Short ones (almost just a stub tube) or longer tubes? How about more (thicker) bar tape (with gel layer??).
Remember my size and the fact that next June-August I'll be bicycling across part of southern Australia, and ...
Thanks in advance.
11-15-11 | 11:53 AM
#49
Slow Rider
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 1
From: Georgia, USA
I have longer, L-shaped bar ends. On these I install regular grips -- mountain bike grips. Then I wrap handlebar tape around the entire bar-end and grip to add further cushion. The end result are thick bar-ends. I spend almost half my time gripping the side of the bar end, about the other half on my Ergon grips on my handlebar, and a bit of time on the L-shaped extension of the bar end. I find these positions and grips to be enough to allow me to ride 60 miles a day on tours. Here's the Ergon grip I use:
https://www.ergon-bike.com/us/en/product/gp1
Post images of your bike!
https://www.ergon-bike.com/us/en/product/gp1
Post images of your bike!
11-15-11 | 12:32 PM
#50
Banned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 43,586
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From: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 8
So, .. that aluminum case packs on the rack, or does the ride have to be circular
returning to where the case is stored?
OH, so the case aids the pannier load under it.. or what?
guess the buyer needs to pack it up and see how that all sorts out.
returning to where the case is stored?
and the box fits perfectly on the rack and is 2 inches high when folded.
guess the buyer needs to pack it up and see how that all sorts out.
Last edited by fietsbob; 11-15-11 at 12:38 PM.