What panniers do you have? Even the lighter ones on the market today are usually at least 2 pounds each. I think the lightest I have checked were 1.5 pounds. Sea to Summit 20 liter sil-nylon dry sacks weigh 1.7 ounces. So the difference is fairly substantial. That said I would be inclined to go with lighter model panniers rather than sil-nylon dry sacks unless going ultralight with the rest of your gear. At 22 pounds of gear weight I used Nashbar ATB panniers and didn't go to sil-nylon until shooting for 15 pounds of gear weight.

There is the reduced convenience of finding and accessing items in dry bags as compared to panniers, but it is a bit less of a factor when the stuff is pared down to a small number and volume of items.

I figure that when you get to the load shown below the sil-nylon sacks start to make sense, much more than that and I will stick to panniers.
http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/...taehpj1/15.jpg

+1 It's called Velcro One Wrap. Lightweight and strong. +1 on staehpj1's post, combine with Sea-To-Summit Ultra-Sil dry sacks.

Thanks staehpj1 I think from what you are saying is correct and I will go with a lighter pannier, one of the problems I have with my panniers is I need to use a waterproof cover for them, when they get wet they are two time heaver, they are called Dirt Monkey and are not made anymore,
another thing someone said eariler to lose the front two panniers, so I think this is the way I will go, two back panniers, tent and sleeping pad on the rack, when I get sorted I will post picture

For my full pannier setup I use 2x Carradice Super C rear (1.9lbs each) and 2 x Ortleib small roller front bags (1.5lbs each) . The total weight is under 7lbs. Carradice are very light for their size and strength, mainly because they use a simple construction and ultralight stiffening. Ortleib have heavier construction but better waterproofing.
Most panniers are far too heavy.

Good luck getting it all sorted out in a way that works for you.

BTW: Have you considered tent on the rear rack and panniers on front? That can work out quite well and might be preferable especially if you are concerned about the amount of weight on the rear wheels.
http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/...ay4propjpg.jpg

ah i'm convinced about all this, your set up looks good Staehpj1 but it has to be a pain to get to things ,you dont have the convenience of popping open a pannier in jig time to retrieve something in a hurry. but i could be all wrong has been known.so are you totally convinced panniers are a thing of the past for you .

I have little enough gear that I think accessing stuff will be not too big of a hassle with good planning in how the gear is packed. That said I have not yet toured with my latest planned setup, so I may have to come back and say it was a failure. I leave on my next tour February 11th and will report back on how it worked out after my return.

The lightest I have actually gone so far is shown in the picture with the front panniers. Gear weight was at 22 pounds there, not counting water, food, fuel, or a duffel bag that I was supposed to mail home, but never got around to.

I would not say that panniers are definitely a thing of the past for me. I try to never say never, there may be reasons that I decide to tour heavier in the future

Mine are some old ones from Nashbar back when they were still called Bike Warehouse. They were modeled on the old Cannondale panniers but with much lighter fabric so there's some loss of durability - but mine are still in use after numerous tours and shopping trips over the last 35 years. The pair weighs in right at 1.0 kg or 2.2 lbs.

Here's a picture of my 'fully-loaded' bike on the way back from a trip to Yosemite last year. Everything fits inside the panniers so loading/unloading the bike is very quick and convenient.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=232363

Pair Ortlieb Front Roller Plus AND Pair Ortlieb Back Roller Plus = 6.5 pounds (excludes the shoulder straps).

the only time i feel a weight restriction when my rear panniers are loaded up is when i'm climbig a hill ,the bike i ride thorn sherpa no lightweight itself it's built to carry loads ,so you dont feel the extra weight .

Thanks for the clarification. Those panniers look like they really maximize heel clearance and would be great on a road bike with short chain stays. BTW, I have fond memories or the newsprint Bike Warehouse catalogs.

A Big+ the Ortlieb bags go on/off quick, and are secure, when on the racks.
all those stuff sacks take time to tie on with cordage,

and can come loose if your knot-craft is up to snuff, causing a dangerous load.

Like on the old Cannondales with cantilever stays? Mine's blue instead of yellow:
http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/47...600x600Q85.jpg

George, not sure what kind of front rack you have but if you have a small platform rack with a couple of vertical struts you could use two 13l. Seat to Summit dry bags that have side strap loops on them. Clip the bags together , lay them down the sides of the rack then use some kind of secure webbing strap to secure the bags to the rack sides. You may need to lace twine between the struts so the bags can't press in between and into the wheel.

http://www.seatosummit.com/products/display/63

The big river dry bags are a few oz heavier than the sil-nylons but that might be preferable for strapping things down on the sides of a rack frequently . Also the welded on loop provides an anchor point for the webbing. Two 13l bags should provide all the volume you need for clothes. Who knows you may find that you can carry what you need in those bags with the rest on the rack. Panniers work when you need to carry pannier sized loads, trying to reduce weight by removing a pair of panniers is a lot easier if you're using less than pannier sized loads. Trying to carry pannier sized loads in something other than panniers results in a lot of compromises.

Hi LeeG I think the way I will go is two back panniers, tent and sleeping pad on the back rack, and lose the two front panniers, also think that I will go with the Ortlieb bags thanks george,

Hi LeeG if you have a look at my web you will see the bike www.fullyloadedbiketour.com
george

Hi Ciufalon Thanks for the video link have a look at www.fullyloadedbiketour.com let me know what you think
george near the end of the site thats the Tricross Sport weight in the 4 panniers 24lbs on the back rack 6lbs total weight 30lbs

Something to consider:

Tent and sleeping bag on rear rack and something like this on the front forks:

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/216...02/5912418472/

I can't remember what the bracket is called - Looks promising to keep weight down.

Edit: The fork cage is called a Salsa Anything Cage.

Hi mtnbud that looks really scary, a good way to cut wind resistance, yep something to think about
thanks george:)

Sea to Summit dry bags work well. They have good compression straps which is essential to stop the bag from being all floppy and they are waterproof and tough.

http://wheelsofchance.files.wordpres...cb8.jpeg?w=468

http://wheelsofchance.files.wordpres...e0c.jpeg?w=468

Wife and I are planning a tour on 20th, with no panniers. Each with a ultralight backpack strapped on the rear rack. Saves weight on the flight, as the backpacks will be carry on luggage.

Let's see how it works out.

Backpacks are these

http://www.decathlon.in/image/cache/..._1-400x400.jpg

http://www.decathlon.in//BACKPACKS-F...-37-ULTRALIGHT

and straps are from

http://www.strapworks.com/

Got the idea of the straps from Bikeforums :-)

You don't need thick rubbery dry bags. I have Sea to Summit bags and they are waterproof and very very lightweight. I still prefer my thick Ortlieb Roller classics though. For long term they will wear better, but I do strap on a Sea to Summit dry bag or two when I tour. I could sse them working but I doubt they would last as long as the Ortliebs.

looks really big to be sitting on the rack :eek:have you everything you need in that backpack tent/sleeping gear/ cooking gear/ cloths/wet gear/ cycling gear/dead curious to see it all and a photo of it on the bike.:thumb:

There are a lot of straps on that site. Which are you using? I ask because I'm looking for something better than bungee cords to strap on my sleeping bag, tent, etc.

What size would you recommend for a down winter sleeping bag? Summer bag?