Good stuff. I myself use a Gregory 80 liter which I thought was a little large myself. But I was also carrying climbing equipment which isn't small or light. The only issue which was a benefit at times was the straps are so strong with the IF packs you can't just fold them or move them. I found it came in handy if i flipped the bag upsade down and put my sleeping bag/tent inside of the straps and fastened it all down together.

I'd like to see a picture as well. It does seem like a bit much to have on top of the rack. Maybe if they are very lightly loaded? How much do they weigh when gear is loaded?

I put stuff sacks in my panniers.. they tidy up the contents, + I can pack the stuff sacks tight .
then put them in the bag as a organization aide..

I likred the bagel bag sized ones, that I got with My Tailwind panniers, Ordered more
then got some saturation type PU coating to strengthen the light fabric.

George, if you go with some of the lightweight Pacific Outdoor Equipment panniers, which can be had on sale many places these days (POE recently sold to another larger company), you might choose to go with a set of their universal (work front or rear) panniers that you can then try on both the front and rear. I would probably choose to carry them front and then use a dry bag on top of the rear rack for the tent and sleeping bag. I think that might provide a better handling, more comfortable ride. But if you like them on the rear, then you could use them that without any problem. With 18 L capacity, those universal lightweight panniers hold plenty.

Gee thanks all you guys I think I will email Pacific Outdoor Equipment panniers or use two Ortleib back roller classic and lose my old front panniers
once again thanks george
could anyone recomend what Ortleib for back panniers I was thinking of Classic

They are all good depending on needs for volume and application.

I was thinking of the back roller classics 40L because I like them in yellow

well then yellow you shall have :thumb:

If you go with 40 litre back roller classics they will give you an excellent platform on which you can strap a huge stuff bag.http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=232617

The dry bag on top of the rack held my tent and poles, one fork leg dry bag held my sleeping pad, the other my sleeping bag, pillow, wool long johns, turtle neck base layer and socks. no matter what I have a dry place to sleep at the end of the day.

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...n/DSC04850.jpg

Cool bike. Very nice set up.

I love my Back Roller Classics! I have black but yellow is much more visible. They are a great product, you won't regret the purchase, the just work.