.

That is the method I have been using for 40+ years. It is a good starting point for fine tuning. I do ride the drops.

Well, a little bit more than that ... 12 years. I got my first road bicycle in the right size for me in 2000, and after some experimentation, finally set up my handlebars the way I like them. I got comments on my handlebar setup at that time too.

In the decade prior to that, I rode a road bicycle that was too big for me (a gift), but which I set up to fit me as best I could. I would guess that I probably had my handlebars set up much like I've got them now ... I'd have to dig out some old photos to see.

So it's possible I've been riding like that for the past 22 years.

I don't remember how my bars were positioned in the early 1960s.

I didn't mean to offend, just found the bar setup out of spec ( a general sign of less than ideal bike fit), and exhibiting inherent potential grip issues.

YMMV. very nice bikes all around.

.

I do Oh OK, the early 70's.



This is a pro criterium in Dijon,France. The picture illustrates the variation in the bar position of the riders. The rider in the foreground has quite a bit of slope, and the Lotto rider behind him has his bars adjusted as Bikeolgist is advocating. I think it all comes down to personal preference and bar shape. Some slope to the bar,allows the wrist to be in a more neutral position with a slight bend of the elbows when down on the drops.


Back to the OT-- Nice bikes!

I wish I had taken photos of my 1970's Raleigh.

I'd disagree with you about the bar angle on the rider in the foreground judging by his grip angle in his shallow drop handlebars, but he certainly has his hoods quite high. with shallow drop Hbars that is the new norm. His hands would be almost vertical if positioned in the drops on the blue Thorn.

riding with a drop handlebar with the ramps above the horizontal is unquestionably a sign of less than ideal fit.

if a tourist has drop bars positioned with the ramps above the horizontal, and very rarely uses the drops, they might want to consider a trekking bar setup for greater useful hand positions. as was my suggestion to machka after seeing her hbar setup.

Machka has made it pretty clear that she is happy with her handlebar setup. It's time to let it go.

Rowan,

I hope you and Machka did not base your purchase on the basis of getting "twins". It is my understanding that blue bikes are the product of two recessive genes. I am also thinking that green bikes are also a product of recessive genes. They may be half-siblings, but not twins. I'd be wondering if there might be a blue and red Nomad involved somewhere in the mix.

PS. The British racing green is a great color. I'm looking forward to seeing the completed build.

The builds have probably been the most frustrating I've done, but it's no reflection on the frames. It has to do with the suppliers, and in particular waiting for rims, spokes and hubs which have taken an interminably long time... from what should be reputable suppliers.

So, we are on our Easter break with Velocity Dyad wheels on Machka's bike that came off my old Fuji Touring, and Velocity Aeros on Ultegra hubs that I built originally for the experimental Shogun that Machka was just not comfortable on (too long top tube).

I suppose in the context of what we have planned, we can wait just a little longer for the Mavic A719 rims on XT hubs. But on my bike it does mean a certain degree of fiddling about with brakes because of the different rim widths.

And speaking of brakes, I've run into a bit of a hassle with the Problem Solver Travel Agents hitting the stays from the rack to the braze-ons. The racks are Topeak and have the twisted-sister stays. I sort of solved the issue with Machka's bike by crossing the stays and attaching to the insides of the braze-ons. The issue is a function of the length of the LX brakes... and that comes from my desire to use these brakes with travel agents because I know they are powerful and reliable, as experienced on our tandem.

And again speaking to the travel agents, if anyone does use them, read the instructions very carefully. There is a particular position for the cable hole on the pulley, and if it goes beyond 5 o'clock, the power of the brakes diminishes rapidly because the cable pull is much reduced. It's likely to happen as the pads wear down, but also if the rims are changed from wide to narrower ones, hence my observation earlier about fiddling with brake adjustment.

We're off riding on them today, a short day trip, but we will load them up with panniers and stuff to see how they handle. The weather was wild last night, and dull and gloomy this morning. We struck it lucky yesterday by moving our accommodation into a unit that became vacant with a cancellation.

Machka says she has an aversion of carbon fibre, but I have been able to sneak a bit of it on to the last couple of bikes I have built for her with 1-1/8" steerers. In this case, the spacers are CF -- there are two of them on the underside, 30mm and 20mm, I think, and a 15mm on on the top (under the cap) so we can mix and match later on should she want the bars moved up or down. I tried to source alloy ones in the right length, but I could find not them from my favourite suppliers this time around*.

There also was a question on the bottle cage holders. They are polycarbonate, in clear. I have had several on my Ti bike and they hold bottles of various sizes nicely and tightly, but also allow an easy exit. They have been surprisingly durable (our bikes get a lot of manhandling into and our of our van), and certainly don't become heat affected like the plastic ones we have used previously. I won't use alloy cages anymore -- they destroy the finish on bottles once that anodising wears off. I won't bother with stainless steel cages while I am happy with the polycarbonate ones.

* Bear in mind we live in Australia, and while US suppliers may have what we want, the shipping charges are exhorbitantly high, and for small stuff can be twice the purchase price. In this case, the spacers and the bottle cages came from a local supplier, an Adelaide eBay store operator who has never let me down in the six or so orders I have placed with him -- either in time to deliver or quality of product.

Rowan and I got out for a 37 km test ride with the Thorns today ... from Portland to Cape Bridgewater and back. Our first ride on the Thorns that was more than just a quick round-the-block. The route climbs on the way out, and we were faced with a strong headwind ... the way back was much faster.

Yesterday hit a bright and sunny high of 32C, and we spent a while in the ocean on our boogie boards. Then a system change moved in, accompanied by howling winds and storms, and today is much cooler and overcast. So we had to bundle up a bit for the ride.

And because we spent a while in the ocean on our boogie boards, and because we haven't done that since Christmas, we were sore this morning!! Amazing all the muscles that are employed to stand, run, leap onto a boogie board, and stay on the boogie board in ocean waves. I also partially dislocated (subluxation) my left shoulder during the week, so it is quite sore anyway (probably shouldn't have been on the boogie board yesterday but I couldn't resist).

Those were the conditions in which we did this first real ride on our Thorns.

The Thorns performed very well. We both needed to make slight adjustments to our saddles to get the fit just right, but other than that, it was all good. One thing that impressed me was that I was able to ride with only one hand on the handlebars for quite a distance, and the bicycle was very stable and easy to ride.

We're looking forward to doing even more riding in the near future.



We took a few photos (click photos for more) and Rowan took some video footage of the ride and bicycles as well to practice using his new camera (that has not been published at this point)

You should level the bars, that is dangerous... just kidding btw

Bikes look good, sounds like you guys had a great day.

They look great (you and the bikes). I have been lusting after a Club Tour for a couple of years now and it will probably be my next bike. Definitely a good bike for someone who can only afford or have room for one.

About the only thing I wish Thorn would change on some of their models is the is the traditional English brazed-on one-piece seat post clamp. It's just a broken bolt waiting to happen. I ended up cutting it off on my Sherpa and replacing it with a seat post clamp. I started a thread on Thorn forums a couple years ago and there were quite a few people who experienced broken bolts. Not trying to bring up a negative, but in case you find yourself going someplace remote, you might want to bring a spare 6mm bolt.

Nice handlebar setup BTW.

Rowan,

It looks like you used an eternal bearing bottom bracket/crankset on Machka's bike. I am trying to come up with a mountain crankset/front derailleur/bottom bracket combination that will maintain a chainline that will work with STI shifters. It seems like you have accomplished it on her bike. Does the Thorn have a 68mm BB shell? The crankset that I have been using is no longer available, so I am looking for an alternative.

The discussion on this thread has perked my interest in the Club Tour. It was not on my radar screen until I saw the pictures you posted. I am not totally satisfied with the fit of my current bike, primarily because of the long top tube. The Thorn has a shorter top tube which is really tempting.

Yes, both bikes have the external Shimano BBs. In two ways, I like the set-up -- it is quite simple to install and take apart, and the issues of not tightening the cranks enough to prevent them working loose is overcome (unlike square taper spindles, and to a lesser extent, the Octalinks). In another way, I don't like it because of the very point you mention, Doug -- chain line might be less than optimal because the inward adjustment is limited.

The Hollowtech II bottom brackets do come with plastic spacers to you can fiddle with outward chainline and/or Q measurement.

However, in this case, and with several other builds with the Hollowtech set-up, I haven't had much of an issue with getting the shifting to work. On my bike, the shift through the gears is remarkable smooth and easy. I think the derailleur makes a vast difference, and I used the Tiagra road triple in both cases here. I have used this in the past and it works nicely every time.

My LX cranks came with a plastic pants guard, which I like. Even if not fitted as original equipment, I was considering finding a way of putting one on anyway.

Now, here is the really, really interesting part. I thought I was building two bikes with nine-speed Ultegra shifters on them. I set up the nine-speed cassette and chain and then the shifters on Machka's bike. Well, that was all fine. Then I came to mine, set up the nine-speed cassette and chain, then test shifted the right lever -- only to discover it is 10 speed! I had forgotten in all the swapping around of bits and pieces what the configuration was.

What did I do? Just fitted it all up, and experimented. If there is anyone who says 10 speed shifters won't work on nine-speed cassettes, it won't be me. The shifting is as sweet as with a normal set-up, the exception being an extra click at the top of the cassette, which I can probably tune out with adjustments through the downtube barrel adjusters and the limit screw on the derailleur.

As to ride, I have 28C Vittoria Randonneur tyres on at the moment, pump to about 85psi, which is quite firm. The ride seemed to be on par with my titanium road bike, and would probably improve if I dropped the tyre pressures between 5 and 10psi. Frankly, the bike seemed to glide along nicely.

And the real test was being able to ride no hands at just under 25km/h.

Riding no-hands is my test for ride stability, and comes from my first proper touring bike, my Fuji Touring. I could never seem to hold a line loaded or unloaded on the Fuji, even with both hands on the bars, unless I concentrated all the time, and rode with eyes down on the road in front of me to compensate.

It was only in the past two years that I figured out the problem was with the forks and it was only when I changed out the original unicrown unit for a Surly CrossCheck fork that the problem was solved.

Being able to look up and around is one of the pleasures of touring that the Fuji virtually disabled for more than 50,00km! The Thorn is certainly much different, at least unloaded, and that in itself has been worth the build.

I didn't have a chance to change the rack set-up on my bike before we left for our holiday, so I rode with a Travel Agent on the front and the plain V-brakes on the back. Let me just say, the Travel Agents do exactly what they are designed to do, and as a result of my direct comparison, I will put aside some of today to get the set-up right.

The Thorns ... with the new wheels!

These photos were taken on our longest ride on the Thorns so far, last weekend ......







And more ...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/machka-...detail/?page=7
https://www.flickr.com/photos/machka-...detail/?page=6
https://www.flickr.com/photos/machka-...detail/?page=5

Oh, don't be like that!!

We all know how twins are made and where they come from.

R and M, are you still in the same place as last year? I envy that lawn..

Actually, thanks tmac for quoting shelbyfv's post, as I had overlooked it...

Thorn has been on our horizon for quite some time. I think the impetus came from the theft of Machka's bike two Easters ago from a campsite in a supposedly crime-free little town.

The "bridging" bike was a titanium which enabled her to get back into randonneuring, centuries and other general riding. It's a nice bike for something that was comparatively cheap in this material, but unfortunately, it didn't have eyelets and other touring accoutrements, and its angles were a little too sharp for touring, and the forks and chainstays didn't like wide tyres.

Anyway, she was in the market for a touring bike.

My old Fuji Touring had a broken right rear dropout that I repaired, but I just didn't feel confident of undertaking an extended tour on it anymore. The Tiagra shifters were also well worn. I replaced the front fork on it to improve its handling and straight-line feel, but really, now, it's more suited to commuting.

So I was in the market for a new touring bike.

The Australian currency exchange rate is quite good these days. I know Thorn frames are well designed and finished from seeing others, and overall they have a good reputation. And their price from SJS Cycles really was very good, even factoring in freight, compared with having something custom made. These frames, however, are made in Taiwan instead of the now-closed Thorn shop in England. I don't think the move offshore has affected the quality of welds, or paint finish.

So we shot off two orders and had the frames in our hands about a week later. One distinct advantage was that because the orders were separate and delivered to two different people, the costs were under $1000 each, so we saved on import duty and GST under the current Customs policy here for bringing stuff into the country.

The bikes have a generous wheelbase, and chainstay length, and we had no trouble fitting Machka's to her, and mine to me based on measurements from our other bikes, then practical riding.

And indication of the beefiness of the frames is the width of the rear dropouts. They are quite a bit wider than on the Fuji, for instance, and I suspect they will be very durable.

tmac, yep same place, same lawn. But the couch grass (pronounced cooch) does go yellow as it moves to dormancy for winter. I don't think we'll be here to see it this year

Beautiful.

A well designed mud flap will keep the chain cleaner a lot longer. Even in dry conditions.

I had my blue touring bike first.

edit: oops,I just remembered this is not your first blue bike suitable for touring.

OK Just another Opining IMO, appearances.
the brake levers were set a bit low on the drop curve,
then the bars turned up to compensate.
but you are your fit expert.

brifters spawned short ramp bars, since they are so long.

the internals required the space.. so the lever grew.

just had a look a your flicker pics really nice, the bikes look fantastic and all that lovely sunshine.
so are you both happy with the twins whats the overall result is it 10out of 10 or is there any quibbles worth mentioning.

I've done 140 km on my Thorn so far (over 5 rides) and Rowan has done about 130 km on his (over 3 rides). We've had to make a few small adjustments for comfort (for me, it was some teensy adjustments in saddle height), but once that was settled, I've been comfortable ever since, and I think Rowan has as well.

Very soon we're planning to take them out with panniers to see how they handle with a load.

fietsbob, the camera angle accentuates the lever position. Seeing them in person doesn't make them look so high. But, we've been through that discussion already.

I was quite happy with my first extended ride of over 50km at the weekend. The Brooks on mine is a second-hand one I bought over 12 months ago, and it was originally destined for my fixed gear. It had had very little ride time with the previous owner, and the stain on it was flawed. But, hey, my eBay bid made it worth it, the stain flaw is under my butt most of the time anyway, and remarkably, it felt comfortable from the get-go.

That along with the longer wheelbase and the use of Schwalbe Duranos at 75-80psi and, I suppose, the steel construction, made the overall ride fairly plush.

We're doing an out-and-back overnighter this coming weekend (between Wangaratta and Beechworth). I am looking forward to it. I won't have my new Altura panniers (another English company) and our new Zefal Cyclop mirrors (we use one on our tandem and it's excellent), but we'll get by with old stuff

I'm also about to order a pair of bike alarms that fit discreetly under the bidon cage. I don't want the nightmare of Machka's bike theft repeated, and the alarms along with bike locks will go some way to preventing this.

Can you post a link, or some information about the alarms? Thanks.

A few years ago I tried all the alarms on the market at the time. I finally stopped using them. The reasons were, false triggering, they stopped working and were non repairable, or did not trigger easily enough. Of course anyone can put a cloth over the speaker too. I can see how a hidden one could help if you are within hearing range at the time, like in a tent next to the bike. My favorite worked well for a couple of years but finally part of the switch on the circuit board failed and there was no way to repair it. To repair it I needed a new circuit board, and a new switch mechanism made specifically for that alarm. Half of the switch was held by the casing of the alarm and the contacts traveled on a circuit path on the board. Very cheaply made.

Even when I first bought it, they had stopped making them. No repair parts in existence.