Here's a link to the journals of Jeff Teel on CGOAB. These journals document 3 tours he took around the midwest. All were over 500 miles, and one was over 1000 miles. All were done on an older single speed Huffy or Murray (I forget which) equipped with wire baskets: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/direc...ser=map330&v=8

Here's a picture of him and his rig: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p...id=172997&v=h4

I've enjoyed corresponding with him and I like his approach. He now has upgraded to a 3 speed Trek Belleville but I don't know if he's taken the new bike on a long tour yet.

He looks like the guy but the bike is the wrong color....guess he wasn't alone. I truly fail to see the difference in buying a bike and riding around a town for a thousand miles or lightly loading it and riding a few hundred miles. But if you listen to everyone on here you can't get from one side of the street to the other without being a weight weenie and a grand under you. But if these people could see the abuse I put Schwinn sprints through that I got at Walmart in the 80's all of em would have a fit.
Its like the saying goes those who think it can't be done need to get out of the way of those that are already doing it!

To add to his story. He camped all the way. 55 years old with No Colon.

Riding fro NM to FL to see his sister.

I think the point of many posters is not that you need to plop down $1K to get the job done. Rather, much of the advice given in that context is in response to queries from people who want to know what a good touring bike would be.

If the question is "can I tour on my Wal-Mart bike", the answer is "yes, but be prepared for more mechanical problems than what you would have with a (fill in the blank for your favorite budget build/bike)". There was an article recently posted in CGOAB detailing what happened when a family went touring on 3 old department store mountain bikes: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?...c_id=11093&v=W Two of them worked fairly well, but one was problematic.

I think you've confused this forum with the 41. ;)

Of the dozen people I've hosted, one had an LHT that she thought was too heavy. A couple others also had "touring" bikes, a french kid had a 29er with front shocks and platform pedals (He rode it from Chile to Seattle and was on a ride from Atlanta to Chicago via Maine). The rest used a variety of bikes from dept store hybrid styles to light road bikes.

Likewise with the other equipment, variety ran the gamut from kitty litter panniers to name brand stuff.

One thing has been clear, the most commonly mentioned items in the forums seem to be in the minority in the real world.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=263980

Saw this on Pinterest a while back. It looks like it would be difficult.

That looks like Joff Summerfield's he did a round the world tour between 2006-2008. Well worth the read and the pictures are very good as well.

Aaron :)

Not the least bit surprising to me. The only bike I've ever toured on is a Specialized Hard Rock. I've had it down the Pacific Coast twice, through Idaho twice, through the Superstition Mountains in Arizona, through Oregon and Northern California, and through Central America from Mexico to Panama on asphalt, dirt/gravel, over many thousands of miles and countless hills, some of them so steep I had to ride up them slalom style, and all with 50+ pounds of gear hanging off its frame. It's been a real workhorse and an ideal touring bike, IMO. Getting it ready for another trip now, this one from Crescent City, CA to the Bay Area via Hwy 101.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z...gib/Wally1.jpg

Nice solid rig, looks a bit like the one I just put together. Hard to beat those old steel workhorse frames. :thumb:

Aaron :)

http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/46...500x500Q85.jpg

I always cringe a little when I see Ortliebs. I feel like people often get sucked up in the "right" way to do things and forget that other solutions work just fine.

I know Relevate Designs frame bags are supposed to be all that, but a guy in my LBS copies their $30 sling design with some $1 webbing straps for his own use. I bought a $35 Jandd frame bag and was thrilled with the quality. I can't imagine it ever ripping or soaking.

Anything works, really. Roughing it is half the fun. The inspirational people in this thread who rolled on wal-marts and single speeds have a story. The guy on a LHT with ortliebs can't match it.

If what you're saying is that a lack of the finest equipment should not stop people from going touring, I'd certainly agree with that. But I don't think that's the only message here, what I hear almost sounds like reverse snobbery to me.

Or put another way, is "roughing it" (whatever that means) the only "real" or "authentic" (read "right") way to tour? Is that the only way to "have a story"?

There are lots of ways to tour. Whether you are using the absolute top end equipment, or mid-grade stuff like LHTs and Ortliebs, or an old mountain bike with cat litter pails, if you are touring, you are out there and having your own adventure. I don't think that the purpose of touring is to have stories that will "beat" the stories of other tourers.

Years ago I went on a tour on a bike with a bottom bracket that went bad at the start of the first day. It also had an improperly dished rear wheel. We had to replace the bottom bracket and I broke spoke after spoke. Everything worked out OK, and yes, it made for stories I could tell later, but actually I would have preferred to have a wheel that wasn't busting spokes every day.

Why look down on folks who use a LHT and Ortliebs? Really, what's wrong with using reliable mid-grade equipment if you can afford it?

I've toured on an old-school mountain bike and on a touring bike. Both have their places and more importantly, both provided me with some very pleasant tours. I'd love to get another bike like the mountain bike I had, but I haven't found what I want. I'm still looking...

Yes, people can and will tour on department store bikes, but the bikes are prone to all sorts of problems. A broken spoke by itself is not too serious as the bike remains rideable. When multiple spokes break, especially on the rear wheel, it can spell big trouble. And if this happens repeatedly, it will hamper the tour. Likewise, one can expect to make all sorts of minor adjustments on any bike during a tour. But when those adjustments happen daily or more often, it will detract from the ride itself. Those with cheaply made bikes may have any number of system failures along the way. It is possible to have a damaged wheel or a faulty derailleur or bad brakes. These can happen on any bike, but a they are less likely on a well-built, well-maintained bike. And for those who are touring in sparsely populated areas, a breakdown becomes serious. There are some here who will tour in areas where one cannot ride a few kilometres to a town with a bike shop if something serious goes wrong. For such trips, a bike must be in decent mechanical condition and it must be reliable enough to handle the rigours of the trip. Not all bikes will measure up.

I didn't say that the people with LHT's and Ortliebs have no stories, just that they couldn't match the experience of someone who went without reliability and just toured.

I think a lot of people miss where they could opt for cheaper products and less marketing. half of what you pay for with a lot of these products is the brand, because everyone thinks "If this breaks while I'm alone, what then?!"

Being able to afford it and needing it are two different things, and I'd bet my bike there are people on this forum with Axiom panniers that refuse to leave until they can afford those Ortliebs to replace them. My 2¢.

Why the cringe? They are what I wanted and what I paid for. Not everybody likes them and there are plenty of other bags out there if you don't personally like Ortliebs. I bought them because they serve my purpose for this bike.

If you choose to use something else go right ahead, but I don't see the necessity in discounting my choice in bags.

FWIW my first tour was using Frostline bags, they came in a kit back in the 1970's you had to heat seal the edges of the pieces, stitch them together and seal the seams, and then use a big black plastic garbage bag inside to keep stuff from getting wet anyway. Second set of bags were Karimor cotton canvas bags, next set was Kirtland, those all got stolen. Current bag sets include a small set of Lone Peak and a set of Carradice waxed cotton canvas. I bought the Ortliebs specifically for use in off road wet conditions based on my research and experience.

The equipment shouldn't matter as long as the person using it is happy with their choices. Reliability is one of my choices over cheap unreliable equipment. The less time I spend working on or fussing with equipment the more I enjoy the tour.

Aaron :)

The cringe is because the materials (vinyl and plastic) do not cost close to $150, and the craftsmanship isn't THAT impressive. I've long held that Ortlieb owes it's success to community trust.

I'm not saying it's not a good bag. What I'm saying is that the brand name has become a standard, when in fact, items far down the price scale do just as well, if not better. Strapping two compression sacks to your rack with a couple of Rok Straps will net the same storage space, a more secure and repairable mounting system, half the weight, and more consistent waterproofing.

I do not want to start a war against Ortliebs for the sake of it. I am merely reminding new riders or riders without a lot of money that the "cheap" alternatives are more than capable.

Jandd bags have an equal or better level of craftsmanship for half the price of the competition.

My Ortlieb back-rollers are sitting on my friend's bike because my E-Vent Compression Sack from Sea-to-Summit is more compact, mounts better, and is more streamlined.

As I said, to each their own. I know plenty of people that have tried Ortliebs and don't like them. But they work for ME in my situation. I really don't care what the cost of the raw materials are. Based on your theory we should all ride WM bikes because the raw materials for the frame only have a scrap value of $15... about the same as a bike that costs several times as much. As I stated earlier I am more impressed with reliability, durability and suitability of a product than I am the cheap price. FWIW I paid less than half of retail pricing for my Ortliebs, but when I bought my Lone Peak bags I paid retail.

Aaron :)

+1 on Axiom panniers vs Ortlieb.

My Ortlieb front classics had held up for close to 15 years of abuse with the plastic backings and hooks still in tact. The same can not be said with my Serratus Aquanot rear panniers with the plastic hook that broke 5 years from serious usage (repaired by MEC for free) and now the hooks and plastic backing are buckling. A friend who has the rear Ortlieb loaders for more than a decade and had toured in Asia, Africa, middle east etc still have them working with the hooks and plastic stuff water tight. Ortlieb bags will last. $150 amortized over 10 years is $15/year -- not a bad deal. But what I see mostly with is people who bought these nice bags, toured once or twice and found they didn't like bike touring and then sold those equipment for less than they paid. They would be better off with the Axioms or anything cheaper, but they are being told they MUST HAVE ORTLIEBs or you will fail bike touring is a common fear theme in bike stores.

Around seven years ago, I purchased the Serratus Aquanot rear panniers and a waterproof handlebar bag from MEC. I have used them on every tour since that time and they have performed admirably. On one trip, I had to wade through a creek where the water came to mid-thigh level. Everything in my panniers, including a laptop computer, remained dry. I have also ridden in some heavy rain storms and again, my gear has stayed dry. Right now, the map pouch on the handlebar bag has worn out, but that is a $2 replacement.

I have also seen many touring cyclists, especially those from Europe, using Ortlieb panniers. The quality is amazing.

For someone who is out for a couple of weekend excursions, buying Ortlieb or Serratus panniers would be overkill. There are cheaper ways to get started. And, as has been pointed out in this thread and others, it is possible to tour on almost any bike, with almost any gear setup.

For someone who will use the bags regularly, or for someone who is planning a cross-country tour, getting good equipment at the outset will prevent a lot of grief later on.

If this was your original point, it was obscured by the "cringe" remark, and the dig that people with Ortliebs don't have stories/experiences as good as the folks who were "roughing it" ("The inspirational people in this thread who rolled on wal-marts and single speeds have a story. The guy on a LHT with ortliebs can't match it.").

As for whether the cheap alternatives are more than capable, I guess it all depends on how you define capable, and the specific item you're talking about. There are definitely some lower priced accessories and gear on the market (e.g. Nashbar panniers) that are as durable and functional as some higher priced stuff, or at least pretty close. If you like to do things yourself, kitty litter bucket panniers are waterproof and reasonably durable (although they catch a lot of wind). A used 1990s Trek (or Rockhopper, etc.) rigid mountain bike in good tune will function very well indeed, and routinely can be found for between $75 and $200 where I live. But other cheap stuff is just not as functional -- for example, a department store bike is *far* more likely to have problems on a tour -- doesn't mean it *absolutely* will, but a department store bike just isn't a well made product. The $99 spent on one of those bikes would be far better applied toward a used 1990s rigid mountain bike.

PS -- I don't own any Ortliebs. My touring bike is a 1985 Trek 720 I bought at a bike swap for $120. The rear rack on it is a Jandd rack I transferred from another used bike I bought 13 years ago. The front racks are the original Blackburns that came with the Trek in 1985. Does all that give me more cred on this subject? It shouldn't.

not that I would tour on such a thing, but I would like to see a picture of the compression bags mounted on a bike.
On edit, NVM, I see the other thread now

Here's what I've learned after being on these forums for 8 years: No matter how you tour, someone is going to be judging your choices. It doesn't matter what those choices are, there is always going to be SOMEONE telling you you're doing it the wrong way. You bought the wrong brand, you carry too much weight, you carry too little weight, you've got the wrong tires, the wrong bike, the wrong lighting system, the wrong tent, sleeping bag, ...... whatever. It's endless.

My first tour was with two old backpacks strapped to my rear rack with a bunch of bungee cords. After that I tried insulated soft-sided lunch containers and my old Honda motorcycle saddlebags. Both of those options worked but were a pain to deal with. In short, I got tired of Rube Goldberg pannier solutions, so I went to the dark side and got a full set of Ortliebs. I know I had other choices, but after reading countless reviews and careful consideration with the idea that I wanted waterproof and longevity, not to mention minimal fiddle factor, Ortliebs won out. Generally, I will always try the Rube Goldberg method first. If it works, I stick with it. If not, I find out what will and switch. Maybe a different brand of panniers would have worked fine for me. It doesn't matter now. I have Ortliebs, and I love them.

Bike touring is probably my favorite thing to do and I don't mind spending money on reliable equipment for it, but I don't do that with blinders on. That's why I still ride a bike that originally cost $290 14 years ago. It's reliable and, for me, works perfectly as a touring bike. Nothing at all against LHTs or any other touring bike, I just never felt the need to change what I've got.

Find out what works for you and go with it. Ignore what others think about it, because you will ALWAYS find someone who is going to tell you you're doing it the wrong way.

Last year in spring, I had mentioned to someone about a bike trip I was planning to take. He told me I had the wrong bike for the trip and then proceeded to tell me what would go wrong along the way. (He also told me I was wearing the wrong clothing.) I went on the trip, my way. Nothing he predicted went wrong and the only mishap was something which would have happened on any trip at that time. The freewheel failed, but there was no way for me to know it was wearing out.

No two people tour in exactly the same way. We choose different routes, at different times of the year. We ride at different paces and cover different daily distances. We even have different ways of packing the same gear for the same tour.

The recommendations around here usually make a lot of sense, but there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

I'm being misunderstood on multiple levels.

First off, my statement on raw materials was paired with a statement on average workmanship. Obviously, a $150 bike and a $2000 bike differ because of workmanship. A row of plastic hooks and a layer of vinyl sealant do not warrant a price hike in the hundreds for me- Ortlieb is almost indisputably relying on brand loyalty and a phantom "standard" of equipment to get riders to choose them over a competitor who fulfills all needs for 1/3 the price.

Nowhere did I say Ortliebs would not / do not last.

Secondly, I didn't say the guy on bargain-buster gear had better stories than the LHT/Ortliebs guy. My meaning is that the stories the bargainer has are different and unique from the LHT/Ortlieb guy. Using creativity and ingenuity to enable a world-class experience despite hardship is awesome, and the LHT guy can never brag about how hard it was coping, since he spent $1000+ so he wouldn't have to cope with the hardships associated with making due. He has many unique and fantastic experiences, none relevant to this thread.

My cringe is at the mantra associated with Ortliebs. "If you do anything else, wait a few years for failure" is incorrect. As to the people who say "My Ortliebs lasted 15 years and my X lasted 5," there's a million factors including care, environment, and even doing a little research first. I can't imagine Jandd's stuff "wearing out."