if you find one with perlite as aggregate it can be pretty light, considering (not UL, by any means), but if they cheap out and make it with standard ready mix it will likely slow you down.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2071/2...e504cacc_b.jpg
FSM_02 by ihosod, on Flickr


the SPOT was a gift from family (grandmother and grandfather of my children, with my wife's encouragement). they tired of wondering when / if i was in cell reception on some adirondack trips. we have a plan on text / call check ins and routinely blow through all reasonable time limits. now i just let the SPOT do its thing and they can check in whenever they want. works really well. i have 2 messages set up - 'OK, moving on plan', and 'OK, moving slowly'. i also have a third for 'plan to come get me' - i've never used that nor the 911 button.

we use it for events too, and i've been able to plan when / where to meet my wife at the finish when she marathons. beats standing around in the rain with the kids.

Here's a question. Which have you found most acceptable for UL Touring?

1. A drybag strapped to a rack (when rack mounts are available).

2. An extra-large Carradice or Relevate Designs bikepacking seatpost bag

3. A seatpost rack with a drybag under 15lbs (when rack mounts are unavailable)

And is #3 taboo...

Lots of seat post rack failures on the Tour Divide, but if you stick to pavement you might be OK.
A Tubus will likely be lighter.
With a seat post collar and p clamps or a skewer mount you could have a pretty stable setup.

From memory, a seat post rack wagged the dog more than my Camper Longflap or my Revelate.

This photo must have been taken around 2000. One of my many attempts at lighter touring. Notice I didn't say ultra light, because someone has to carry all the tools necessary to repair all the mechanical failures of the ultra lite guys :) . I think it came in around 20 lbs or a touch less.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=271486

It looks like that sculpture may not be so heavy, the spaghetti seems to be made of those foam swimming noodles.

Boy, this website is looking more and more like Imelda Marcos' closet.

I forgot. We were talking about shoes.

It degraded when the discussion was whether a guy portaging 240 pounds of stuff was ultralight.

the other day I rode by two nicely dressed gentlemen carrying slim leather bags while they knocked at someones door, I knew they were Jeovahs Witnesses or thereabouts, and I thought of this thread ;-)

hello how are you today sir, we would like to leave you this Revelate brochure and ask you your thoughts on floorless tents...

Leather is far to heavy a material, it may have to be a nice ballistic nylon case, or Cuben fiber maybe.

For me item #1 has worked well.

For item #2, I was put off by the weight and price of the Carridice and the price of the Relevate. I also find them to be less expandable for times when you need to carry extra stuff for small portions of the tour. That last could be rectified by using a backpack.

For item #3, I almost went that route, but decided it was probably a bad idea. You can always figure out better ways of mounting a rack even on a carbon frame. If you have cantilever or V brakes I like the little Nashbar or Sunlite Gold Tec racks that mount on the canti bosses. They are intended for the front but easily adapt to the back. At 10 ounce they are very light and adequately sturdy. I used mine last trip and it worked fine. This rack will easily fit a 20 liter eVac Dry Bag mounted crosswise. The bag can be rolled down to 10-15 liters and allow for some expand-ability.

I am curious what tools you carry. Are we talking cone wrenches, a big honking headset and pedal wrench, bottom bracket tools, and chain whips?

FWIW, I manage to go ultralight and carry all the tools I need to do most tasks. I wind up loaning out stuff fairly often and generally never borrow anything from other riders. I have borrowed things like a 12" crescent wrench to adjust an old style headset from an auto shop. I do not carry bottom bracket or headset tools. I also do not carry cone wrenches, but I can fix all the stuff that is likely to require immediate attention. If I were to carry more I might include the cone wrenches, but none of the stuff that is bigger than that.

As I said it varies from bike to bike, but on my last trip I took a lezyne multitool (<2 ounce including chain tool and all sizes of allen wrenches that I need), an 8-10mm combination wrench, a couple tire levers, and a Unior cassette cracker. Add two tubes, a patch kit, and a rag and and I am pretty much set. I do also have a frame mounted Lezyne mini-pump.

Withe the exception of the mini-pump, I make it a habit to use the tools on the bike even when at home. That way I know for sure what tools I need and what tasks require other stuff I don't carry. I find that every one of my bikes requires a different set of tools, but all can be managed with a pretty minimal setup.

Ditto the entire post, and my experience exactly on my last X-C tour. A couple of times I fixed a heavily loaded bike from stuff I had in my 17-pound load. In one case, the cyclist had all the tools he needed but didn't know how to use them.

I concluded that knowledge is more important than the tools you carry.

Since I didn't meet any other light or UL tourists, I could not form an opinion on if they were better at bike repairs than those who carried more. I doubt it. I'm sure some heavily loaded cyclists could have helped me out if I'd needed a heavier tool, too.

This same issue comes up in the hiking world. Appalachian Trail forums are replete with those who think all UL hikers mooch what they need from maps to stove fuel to shelter space (and shiver in misery whenever it rains). Experienced UL hikers know that often the opposite is true.

IMHO the best approach for many would be to simply go to two small rear panniers and a handlebar bag. Most tourists will be able to set that up without buying extra equipment.

Taking your list, #3 is probably the most problematic as there are stories of seat post racks breaking. The large moment and single support point are certainly issues. A variant of the seat post rack is the Carradice Bagman. It clamps to the rails of the saddle. Again there have been stories of it's steel rod structure coming loose from the clamping block. The rods are held in to the clamp with set screws and I can see vibration loosening them. Current models don't seem to have this issue, but I take no chances so I flowed some superglue around the rods and into the holes where they go into the clamp and also put locktite on the set screws. I've had no problems. Also,if you use a Brooks saddle in combo with a Bagman part of the load is also carried by the saddlebag loops on the Brooks.

If you have rack eyelets #1 is a good way to go. I would recommend that you use a compression drybag over a simple nylon stuff sack and also go for a relatively heavy duty nylon as the really light weight stuff will disintegrate with the friction and rubbing of being strapped to a rack and bounced over the roads.
The compression bag obviously allows you to compress your gear, but in doing so you end up with a laterally rigid package that will not hang down over the edges of the rack and makes it easy to strap it down.....it avoids the annoyance of the contents moving around as you attempt to strap the bag down. A 20L bag is a good volume for the rear. You can use 10L for your gear, and have 10 spare for emergencies.

Option #2 is expensive and doesn't give quite the same flexibility as a dry bag. I haven't used the Relevant bags, but i do use the Carradice. It has the disadvantages of being heavy, and expensive, but if you get a longflap version it's capacity can expand to carry large awkward items. However, it's main advantage over a dry bag is the lid that you can open and see and get to your stuff easily. I hate blindly searching for an item at the bottom of a dry bag and eventually realizing that I'll have to unpack the bag to find whatever it is. The pockets on the side of the Carradice Camper or Nelson are also useful for quick access to tools etc.

I carry a Topeak multi-tool, Leatherman juice, 2x Al tire levers because I don't trust the plastic ones on the Topeak, two tubes, a patch kit, a few nuts and bolts, tire boots, spoke fix, spare powerlinks and sometimes a spare brake and gear cable. No cassette tools, cone wrenches, or bottom bracket tools. Good maintenance of the bike before you leave should avoid most bearing/cassette related issues. I was going around the world I would probably take more.

I have not met other UL tourists while touring, but I will say that I often loan out tools, maps, and other stuff. I also have often shared food.

On the flip side I typically do not need to borrow anything. I have used my riding buddy's tools sometimes, but that was because we typically used the ones that were most accessible at the moment, not because I didn't have the tool myself.

+1 I would say that a standard multi-tool can handle 90% of all repairs.

If you start a X/C trip with a properly built bike, with new tires, chain, cables, brake pads, and good drive train, you could probably leave all tools (flat change tools excluded) at home. Especially the ones you don't know how to use. If you add to this stopping at a bike shop once or twice for a check-up, you'll reduce your break-down odds to miniscule. I would contend that this applies to UL or fully-loaded tourers.

Supporting personal anecdote:
While on tour last year I met a woman who was 2.5 years into her five continent, around the world, solo trip. She carried no tools except tire change. She stopped at bike shops every couple of thousand miles for check-ups and service. She was FULLY-loaded and riding a rocking solid & HEAVY Rolhoff equipped Thorn. She never had a major breakdown.

I wouldn't want to leave home without a chain tool. It's rare, but a chain can just break and I want to be able to put one together to get me to the next bike shop.

Personally I do carry a multi-tool, with chain-tool, because I prefer to do my own work and I'm cheap. Chains rarely break < 1500 miles. As I said stop at a shop every once in a while, change them out. In addition SRAM power link needs no tools.

You typically need a chain tool to push out the pin and remove the bent links so you can use the power-link.

My LBS told me not to bring a chain tool on my tour because "I probably won't need it." I looked up how chain tools work and realized I would have had a nightmarish time trying to repair a broken chain without a chain tool. I bought the Topeak Hexus II.

Another bike shop on the way put a 10sp chain on my 9sp bike, which resulted in my chain flying off four hours later (and, consequently, a train ride across Boston later). I had been in cadence when it flew off, so I jammed it in my crank and bent a link. My chainbreaker worked to make the chain useable within 10 minutes. Accidents can happen anytime. Andrew Skurka, the long-distance backpacking guru of the 21st century, has two categories: Ultralight and Stupid Light. I will never travel stupid light.

Anecdotes:

I've never met a Local Bike Shop that I completely trust.

I don't trust the tire levers on the Topeak Hexus II either...

Yes agreed. My comments about chains are definitely influenced by having one break on me after a few hundred miles.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no, in my experience. I'm still saying if you want to leave a multi-chain-tool at home, keep up your service stops at bike shops and you'll probably be fine. There are no guarantees of anything. Also, this service stop method is primarily for people who don't know how to use the tools or don't want to get their hands dirty ;)

I carry chain checker with me. When it gets to .75 I start checking my chain daily and plan when I'll be somewhere to pick up a chain. I'm cheap and don't mind dirty hands so I save the $15 or so that a shop charges to put a chain on.

Bingo! Been there and done that. Also, I always carry a cassette tool and piece of 1" nylon strap to act as a chain whip. A specialized crescent wrench that is thin in design but opens very wide that can handle many many repairs. An extra shifter and brake cable, extra bolts and nuts for everything from my shoe's cleats to rack repair. Besides the basic tools, a spoke wrench and other misc. stuff can add up pretty quickly to a pound or two for sure.

The way I see it is, I know where I could shed that same couple of pounds but my tour can be ruined if my companions or I are having mechanical problems out in the middle of nowhere. I often find myself in very rural settings and it's not like I have a bike shop near by that will handle the problem, must be the MacGuyver in me.

I realize anything can happen. In fact I switched to an 8-speed drive train to get more touring miles out of the beefier chains.