Not much difference other than material and maybe fit. My smartwool long johns are loose fitting, the REI tights fit more snuggly, making them good to ride in, and are polyester with a bit of spandex.

[h=1]JayP's 2012 Tour Divide Bike/Gear[/h]
http://vimeo.com/50688329

(I first wrote this in general "we" form, but realised I should only speak for myself:))

Problem is, how do I make informed decisions about the stuff I need when I'm planning my first bike tour and have zero experience? When I started, I had some general ideas based on my hiking background, and in some aspects those were spot on. In others, not so much. For example, I discovered I enjoy a larger tent on bike tours. I'd never take that tent if I had to carry it on my back. I could have read the Interweb packing lists until my eyes bled and still not be any wiser in that regard. Choosing a bike and baggage scheme based on my initial guess would not have been a good thing.

And I'm still constantly looking for small perceived improvements in my gear. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I'm past the point where it would make any difference on my selected bike or panniers though. But I can see how my needs on safety and comfort issues will inevitably change as I get older, and at some point I will have to reconsider even the basic stuff.

--J

You make a good point. That said I still think that a new tourist is more likely to get it right the first time if they decide on a basic gear strategy first. Still they can get it wrong either way.

One thing that can help someone who is starting out with little to no experience with any form of self supported travel is starting out with less expensive, but functional stuff. I did a list of what I would use for very light touring if on a tight budget. I came up with a total gear cost of $330 (US) for all gear except bike and rack. Being a pretty light load it could work with just about any bike and rack. I wouldn't hesitate to cross a continent with that gear and it shouldn't break the bank for most folks, so if they need to make changes they are not out very much. Also most of the stuff would still be useful even if it didn't wind up being their touring rig.

I should note that while the list uses a bivy and mini tarp, the cost would be the same if they substitute a Eureka Spitfire 1 tent.

I should also note that the list includes rain gear, but assumes that they already own clothes they can ride in.

Going heavier should be pretty much the same deal just with more/heavier gear and more baggage capacity to accommodate it.

Nice to see exactly what he took along. With a couple of additions like some cooking equipment, lightweight tent, a lock, maybe some off bike pants other than
rain pants, it would make a good set of gear for a lightweight tourist.

I have noticed that on the running discussion boards they refer to things that I'd call pants as tights.

I have found a pretty wide range in how warm bike tights are. They range from the silky inside and out, to the lightly brushed inside, to the thick windproof ones (usually windproof only in the front). That is coolest to warmest. I tend to use the lightly brushed ones for cool weather bike tours and the silky inside and out ones if I expect it to remain above freezing. I have never used the windproof ones on tour.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8031/8...24b9ca33_b.jpg
Thanks to my girls! by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Can't wait to give it a test run.

Over Columbus Day weekend I rode from Boston to Portland ME to see how the Carradice Camper worked with the tent inside and without the Bagman. Over all it was great, I have about an inch of clearance between the tire and the bag....I'd like more, but it's probably plenty.

Pawtuckaway State Park
http://wheelsofchance.files.wordpres...007-152604.jpg

The night I was at the park there was a local arts festival......serendipity

http://wheelsofchance.files.wordpres...007-152735.jpg

Google maps sometimes takes you down some interesting paths. Off road in New Hampshire was a big contrast to riding RT1 later in the day.

http://wheelsofchance.files.wordpres...007-152819.jpg

RT1 Biddeford ME

http://wheelsofchance.files.wordpres...008-203831.jpg

Portland to eat duck fat fried french fries and catch the train back to Boston.

http://wheelsofchance.files.wordpres...008-203912.jpg

My bike in the Downeaster baggage car. Sorry for the picture quality, Amtrak might like to think about some lighting in the baggage car.

http://wheelsofchance.files.wordpres...008-203946.jpg

Off road on a Pinarello Dogma!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

This is amazing. Touring on a carbon frame is easy compares to this.........

http://www.adventure-journal.com/201...ure+journal%29

a friend of mine sent that to me yesterday, good one to connect it to this topic.
I do wonder however that one might be careful buying a used bike from this fellow, even if it is all nice and polished and looks like it has very little mileage (due of course to the special attention by the buxom gals...)

nun, looks like you walked onto a wim wenders set there in the park.

that guy in the video must be into the ascetic version of ultralight evangelism. i keep wondering where he's carrying his dog tarp and sleeping bag.
maybe those ladies keep him warm at night?
and he must use the wd40 as fire starter.
probably tucked a poncho tarp into his seat tube - lots of wasted space in there.
credit card in his jersey pocket.
likely stuffed some other gear in those rims.

yes very "Wings of Desire"

My point was that bikes shouldn't necessarily be confined to one type of riding. The video is extreme, but a little "sideways thinking" often produces nice surprises.

Oh, totally get your point. Sorry, was riffing on Mr. Bek a bit, that is all.
humor + internet, sometimes like oil + water.


Have to re-watch Wings of Desire. Enjoyed that, for sure.
Had a huge crush on the female lead when I was in college... and Peter Faulk playing Peter Faulk pretending he was Columbo was priceless.
Lou Reed makes an appearance too, IIRC.
Good stuff.

I haven't seen it since it came out, so must have been the late 80s....
Fun now my kids are getting older, I write down great films to watch with them. Will add this. Last one I thought of was Swimming to Cambodia, such a neat theatrical slash film one man show that touched on some pretty neat topics.

The angel wanting to experience human emotion is like the bicycle tourist longing to ride a carbon bike. When they do it's a revelation for both........;)

which is why i sold my LeMond, and went all in to the Ti IndyFab, while still flirting and really enjoying a fixed CrossCheck and then a Soma 29r and now the Fargo.
;)

and don't forget the Pugsley in the garage... got to tour on that someday too, so my bike will weigh far more than my base load...

if you need a carbon bike to find revelation in bicycle touring, you've lost track of the path and are wallowing the the thrushes.

but it does explain the obsessiveness on spreading the gospel.... :D

Me, I've been looking for a frame to build up with road geometry, vertical dropouts and 29 x 2.2 tire clearance..

Nice pictures BTW Nun. It still looks nice and warm where you're at.

I've always favored Wim Wender's "Until the end of the World"

I remember him doing a concert bit in the sequel

chuckle.

i have been converted! :lol: seriously though, i think i will go light... but not ultra light. last tour i went on had to be cut short due to an injury caused by a combination of heavy bike/gear and my own stupidity for crossing a washed out bike trail. definitely going to give this method a shot.

Let us know how it goes.

No need to go crazy at the start, light is a good start and may prove to be the sweet spot for you. For me it went from 50 pounds to 30 to 22 to 15 to 10 and now with my latest choices to 7 and each step felt like about as low as I could go at the time I was packing. Funny thing is that comfort or safety were never really impacted. I think I am actually about as light as I care to go now and in the future may carry some extras while still staying below 10 or 12 pounds base.

A couple of things I could do to go from around 20lbs to below 15lbs would be to replace my saddlebag with a stuff sack and to leave my set of spare clothing behind. But I think I'd start to compromise my comfort and ability to ride in clean clothes each day, and as I tend to be around people in restaurants and museums when I tour I want to stay reasonably fresh smelling.;)

Yep, sounds like you have optimized your choices pretty well for your individual needs.

The exact place where we draw the line will be different for each of us, but I think the principle is to cut only to the point where benefit is maximized for you.

Yes, it's interesting when you start to get down to the level were everything has a use and you really have to consider how leaving something out will impact your touring. At the 20lb level I don't think you loose much over loaded touring, apart from the weight obviously. Maybe cooking is an area with the most compromises when you start to reduce weight. My approach to my gear has always been to reduce weight to make the cycling more fun without compromising my comfort of the bike. The big benefit I've found is in organization and the ease and speed that I can set up camp and then pack up everything, because I don't have to worry about many items. I have a mental picture of where everything goes and it makes it simple to pack up and not leave anything behind.

I have found that is an area where my current setup suffers a bit. The problem is that when everything is in a single dry sack strapped to the rack it is more easy to wind up with the gear all yanked out of the dry bag in that yard sale look :)

The minimal gear list minimizes the disadvantage, but I miss having panniers that stay on the bike and leaving everything I am not using at the moment in them and on the bike. I have toyed with the notion of making a couple smaller dry bags into very light panniers to facilitate that.

I think your saddle bag approach has an edge in that at the cost of a bit more weight and $$. I have a hard time considering spending more to carry a heavier load, but can see where it could be worth it.

I think my solution may be to just use a bit more discipline than I have lately with neatness of gear in camp. It just doesn't come as natural with everything in one dry bag as it did with panniers.