On one hand they look pretty nice, but I'd be hesitant to spring for them given the cost and the fragility of Cuben. I managed to shred a set of silnylon bags in a single tour, so I doubt I would handle them with the necessary care.

i like those panniers have you a link to his site i did try to google it no luck.
are the panniers stiff at the back what's the clips like to hold them to the rack and are they secure and waterproof.
sorry for all the questions.

Zimmerbuilt http://www.zimmerbuilt.com looks like a great place to have something custom made. A big transverse saddlebag made out of Xpac material would be great and weigh about a pound.

I weighed mine in a crude way( stood on the digital scale with and without the bag several times) and came out with a weight of 1.4 lbs with a volume of 10.5 L. Nowhere near your capacity, but it is waterproof.


I know that I am nowhere near ultralight but I enjoy this thread...maybe one day. Great links and vids.

My Camper weighs 2lbs and is also waterproof, but it seems like a lot of trouble and money to get a lightweight version of it to save a pound when an easier and cheaper way to save the pound would be to stop eating the brownies. This is probably a situation where the path of least resistance to a lighter rolling weight goes through the rider and not the gear.

+1...I could lose about 15 lbs of rolling weight.

No reason that one precludes the other.

until they got packed with stuff, that is. I have to wonder about hauling a two pound sleeping bag, a tent that weighs three pounds, then trying to save weight using frameless racking systems for all your gear.

Just one of the flaws in the UL methods that may rusult from failing to see the forest for the trees.

of course, to each his own. the maker of those bags obviously has their system sorted out.

Good point.

This thread has been going so long, I can't remember if another weight-saving measure has come up--water and food management. I think most of us carry more water and food than we need, and that stuff is heavy. Every time you get to a faucet with leftover water, or to a grocery store with leftover food, you've carried too much weight, maybe a lot, maybe five or ten pounds. So why nitpick over ounces of pack weight, when with some planning and discipline you can save many pounds in consumables?

I'm primarily a backpacker and I tend to pack food on bike tours like I'm backpacking for several days and it's a tough mold to break. But I'm really good with water, especially since I moved to the desert and learned how thirsty I can get without harm. Now when I'm hiking in wet areas like the Appalachian Trail, I often carry no water at all. I do the same thing on the bike when there are parks and cafes every 10 miles or so and the weather's mild, or wet. Heck, in the North Cascades on the NT route, you could reach your water bottle out to the rock walls and fill it up without even getting off your bike. It's nice climbing with empty water bottles.

If this has already been discussed to death, my apologies.

the food gig I've brought up.
basically from the stand point of nutrition vs size and weight
and fueling demand.

3lb tent?
Kifaru ParaTarp: 311gm

I figure the luggage question is best answered after most of the packing decisions are made. When you know what you will be carrying you can make a better choice of how to carry it.

When I have compared I have found that rackless systems are not always all that light. They often weigh the same as or more than a rack and dry bag approach. Note that I am not knocking them as they may have other advantages especially for off road or adventure racing.

Something like the one off high tech panniers shown above might also be as light or lighter compared to most rackless systems. I think that a pair of very small ones used in a front pannier only system would be pretty sweet, but I am not likely to spring for the expense and as I mentioned earlier I am suspicious of their durability under my rough handling.

no, no, not you or I with sub 1 pound tarps, the guy that makes the bike bags hauling the two pound sleeping bag and the 3+ pound MSR hubba!

scott is up in Vancouver BC. the weather there is totally different.

ryan jordan's setup (founder of backpacking light)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8428/7...885cf2a1_b.jpg
1xULMTB Setup by bigskyry, on Flickr

link to an article about mike hall and his gear, round the world record holder:

http://road.cc/content/news/59716-in...rld-record-kit

http://road.cc/sites/default/files/i...4-_MG_1835.jpg

I used to tour the pacific northwest, and using a three pound tent in a UL setup is a stretch any way you weigh it!

Any Northwest UL camper worth their salt understands the size/weight/coverage benefits of sil-nylon tarps. Heck, the canooks at Integral Designs practically invented the category of siltarps. Their volume purchasing brought silicone coated fabrics to the North American wholesale textile market from my understanding of the outdoor gear industry. Without their influence, this stuff would simply not have become available at the same time for the micro manufacturers of UL products to make gear.

Same thing with the lag of softshell fabrics to North America- it took Cloudveils' volume purchasing over successive seasons that broadened the appeal of that fabric in the US. Even Suzie Sewer with the best Frostline patterns didn't stand a whit's chance of purchasing Schoeller fabrics to whip up a nice set of leggings in the US, until Cloudveil induced demand for that type of fabric.

that is a totally awesome setup. I'd probably try to not have the seatpost bag extended too much, but instead I'd opt for a larger handlebar bag.

thats another awesome example.

being on pavement totally changes everything. there are so many more resources available.

here's a wacky video of using the ParaTarp and ParaStove.
I've used it on a variety of occasions. The stove can produce crazy heat. its amazing.
its massive overkill. but fun.
it makes bad weather touring... uh... more funner?

he didn't make those cuben panniers. completely different guy. (although he has made some cuben stuff for TD racers)
and he changes up his gear quite a bit.

http://www.porcelainrocket.com

recently I received a new Kifaru 20deg slick bag.
I'm very curious as to how it will deploy
that is, the awesome sleeping bag without using a shelter vs, shelter and thinner sleeping bag.

so I guess the field test will be how and where to use 2lbs vs weather conditions.

Here's something I've been considering. I'm thinking it'll be easy to modify a stout compression sack into a frameless seatbag, with limited reinforcements. Think "Arkel saddlebag" ;)

I partially agree, but... I would have assumed that anyone who is trying to go ultralight is probably never carrying anywhere near 5 or 10 pounds of extra food and water. Some extra makes sense when you do not know for sure when you will reach the next restock point. You may need enough to be safe if caught out, but for example do not need enough water to wash you body, clothing, or dishes. For an unexpected overnight with no restock you can skip those niceties.

First I don't think most of us who are careful with gear weight can "save many pounds in consumables". Maybe for some that could be the case, but I doubt that it is for many of us. I always assumed that folks on tour generally buy food frequently and at the last minute where possible. It isn't usually like backpacking where chances to restock are likely to be farther apart.

Second, I think it makes sense to pay attention to all areas of potential savings.

I don't think it has. It is probably a good topic, I just doubt that many weight conscious folks carry enough extra food that they can save pounds.

Me I try to buy dinner late in the day where that is possible. Maybe even after I make camp if a store is nearby. I may carry a couple small packs of foil pack tuna and a couple packs of ramen noodles if I expect the next store to be a long way off. The combo makes a reasonable meal. I may also carry some calorie dense "pocket food" to nibble while riding, but not too much more than necessary. If I know that there will be stores for sure I carry almost no food. If I am in the middle of the desert I carry enough to definitely get me to the next restock point.

that does work, to a certain degree.
I've done that a lot, trying to figure out exactly where and how I wanted a bag shaped.

the issue here with just using a compression bag, is that obviously it requires some sort of ingenious strapping method.
not that its all that difficult.
in the past I've used 1" nylon strap, and crossed it in an X pattern, compressing the bag to the seat rails as best as possible.
the issue that comes up, is the actual shape of the compression bag vs rubbing your thighs.

well... at least its always been an issue for me.

next is the fact that the compression bag is not secured to the seatpost.
its only secured to the saddle rails.
the problem here is that the bag has a tendency to move around, especially when in the dirt.

finally, to access the compression bag, you have to actually remove it from the bike.

with seatpost bags, such as the type from Porcelain Rocket, Revelate, etc...
the bags are designed to be accessible without removing the bag.
really they are designed to enable the user to work "from" the bike, as compared to unloading the bike, then reloading it.

the obvious considerations when it comes to "fueling" is the demand and logistics.

so for instance, the Kings Range and Sinkyone Wilderness here in California, just south of the Lost Coast, is about 125 miles of dirt roads, with a fair amount of topographical relief.

water is not guaranteed. you definitely need to carry a filter.

depending on how fast you want to get thru this section
or
if you want to hang out and stay in the area for a bit, maybe do a few side trips, etc

you could easily spend 3 days in this area. so thats 3 days of food.
that could easily be 6000cal
Meal Pack bars are 440cal per 110gm
thats about 1600cal per pound
you could easily need to consume 4lbs of food per day.

water, there is a good chance that you'd be smart to carry at least 75oz of water at all times.

and this is just a rough example.

i tend to use Meal Pack Bars as a "measure"
in my experience(s), even if I use a powdered fuel like Perpeteum, a 5lb bag contains 32 servings of 270cal each. (8600cal)

for me, thats about 32hrs of fueling while on the bike.

another option is something like Quinoa
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...-pasta/10352/2
1 cup cooked, is about 200gm, at about 220cal

the issue here is that you have to cook it.
which means heat, and something to cook out of.

if I start to get into cooking, I like my Ti SnowPeak solo cookset
if I use a stove, typically I use a Pack-a-Feather stove: http://www.packafeather.com/stove.html
its about 50gm. but you have to use fuel. so I use HEET. http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/heet/
if I use the stove every day, maybe twice a day, breakfast and dinner... that 12oz bottle can last me about a week.

so the whole ordeal is this expanding f(x) function
calories are a tricky ordeal
which is why I tend to keep on the roll when I can
when I have momentum and I'm feeling good, or good enough, I keep on rolling
what happens is that I'm making these jumps from one logistical supply point to the next

when you're on pavement, from town to town, the whole thing is much much much easier!
suddenly you realize that there are gas stations all over the place, which of course have coffee, sugar and creamer! + a snickers bar!