I'm not really that bothered. The "ultralight" things is a double edged sword. It produces controversy, but that also leads to lively and interesting discussions, so I'll leave it as it is.

I talked to Relevant about a Carradice type saddlebag made in their material when it became apparent that the 23L Carradice Cordura saddelbag was more myth than reality, but they weren't interested as they were busy making the regular stuff. It's advertised weight was 1.3lbs and here's a picture of one.....but they are very rare and are seldom seen on websites for sale and have even disappeared form the Carradice website.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6506012...in/photostream

That is probably the best answer. I don't really think the U/L label puts folks off that much. I'll bet plenty of people who carry much heavier loads and have no desire to go U/L still got something of use from the thread. I know that I found it useful and picked up a few tips as well as gaining a better understanding of how others pack and why.

Some tips for touring from ACA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENQGY...eature=related

and a very cute girl.

those ACA vids are fun arent they, good for getting people thinking about trying a bike trip.

this has been a good thread.

what I see is a reflection of demographic subscribed to BikeForums.

Are you aware of Dill pickle gear? She makes pretty much exactly that, cordura/sil-nylon saddle bags. I never weighed mine so not sure if it's actually lighter than a traditional bag. Very good construction though, if a bit spendy. Link: http://www.dillpicklegear.com/

Yes I'd seen the write up on the original that I think she made for PBP, but I didn't know she was making them to order. Her website looks interesting.


EDIT: ouch, just saw the prices.

FYI the couple in the ACA video have a great website at

http://americabycycle.com

They are sort of the bizzaro world version of Laura and Russ at Pathlesspedaled.

http://www.americabycycle.com/2012/0...on-2-bikening/

thats a good way to put it, they've really put together a fun fun website, and their goofy humour is a real kick to watch. Thanks for putting up the link.
Yet another good biking resource to look at and to inspire people.

last time out i put the contrail in the seatpack, along with my stove, some food, and some extra clothes (still had some room to spare).
i used the tangle bag for tent poles, pump, first aid kit, etc.

next time out (and until i get a proper frame bag) i may put the contrail (packed size is 4x14") into an OR ultralight dry bag (stakes in a pouch in there) in a Salsa Anything cage mounted to the downtube. folding pole will go on the top tube with a velcro strap or tucked into my harness.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8310/7...66cfccbd_b.jpg
salsa anything cage, OR ultralight dry bag, tarptent contrail by mbeganyi, on Flickr

also, i really like this concept:

http://www.sierradesigns.com/images/...medium/110.jpg

but the one on the shelf locally is too heavy, with too many bells and whistles. might have to make a silnylon version for the contrail. hate stuffing it into its bag, would rather roll / wrap it up and somehow compress it down.

The packed size of the Contrail is dictated by the rear carbon struts and the front pole. I recently found that if I remove the struts the fabric of the tent can be compressed into a very small volume. I now put the tent pole, struts and pegs in the bottom of my saddlebag with the tent in a compression bag on top of them. I try to roll the tent up as much to avoid too much creasing, but the fabric does get a lot of wrinkles. Next to it is another compression bag that has my quilt, Marmot Catalyst, underwear, and socks. Personally I wouldn't want to use one of my bottle cages for something other than water, but then I have no other place to carry fluids apart from my saddlebag.


I'm thinking of trying out a Hennessey Hammock, as there are no poles to deal with, but i would like to try one to see if I like it before I buy.

i don't like the idea of pulling the little rear poles and having to put them back when i setup. for now, for weekend trips, sure, i guess i could do it. but i like being able to deploy the tent in 2 minutes without fussing. especially if i were to do it in the rain, cold, or on the tour divide or even one of my own trips where i was keeping the mileage up.
i've been using a stick for the center rear pole. easy enough to find here in VT.

hammocks are pretty nice. especially for warm / summer camping. really comfortable (for me).
for shoulder season camping you need to pack an underquilt or an insulating bottom layer, or jam your pad in there.
i have also used a 1/4" foam pad from gossamer gear - but it is bulky on the bike.

i was tempted to take mine this weekend - a friend is going along and will be camping with his, and we are likely camping in an undeveloped area.
he'll be able to hang quickly, i'll have to find a flat spot.

the hennesy i have is the expedition asym. by published weight it is 2lbs, 9 oz., and i modified the hanging system with some descending rings and carabiners for quicker / easier setup - so mine weighs more.

my contrail is published at 24.5 oz plus 2 oz pole - so 1.6 pounds. that is a pound+ of savings. and it doesn't pack as tidy as the contrail.

in the summer, if i can leave my pad at home and just do a thin foam layer - it can save some weight. but not bulk, which is an enemy when packing like i do.
for spring / fall you'd need to add an underquilt (can be $$) or the hennessy supershelter system (which on its own packs the size of the contrail)

i know that there are lighter hammocks - i got mine as a gift and do like it. i'd have to get into a ultralight now or make my own, something i'm not keen on spending any $$ on.

i can run bottles on the fork. and in a pinch, in my pack.
this seems better use of the space than last 2 trips... that empty spot down there bugs me...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7246/7...931af17a_c.jpg
ready to roll, day 2 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

the jandd pack worked really well though on my adk trip:

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6137/6...83e2165e43.jpg
Salsa Fargo by mbeganyi, on Flickr

could have maybe put in a shorty bottle... but i didn't run fork bottles on that trip.

but in the end - i need to get a frame pack to truly make it all work so much better.

I'm pretty sure I read (somewhere) that Tarp-tent can modify the Contrail, replacing the single carbon strut with a jointed one, making it pack much smaller.

Don't worry two much about rolling it up vs folding, the only study I've ever seen on this seemed to show that the least dangerous way to pack your tent was to just shove it in the bottom of your pack. They're more durable than you think.

Being able to pack the Contrail inside my saddlebag lets me get rid of the Bagman so I'll take the extra step of sliding the carbon struts into their sleeves. Below is a photo with a water bottle for scale, the front and rear poles, struts and pegs are in the original Tarptent bag at the front.

http://wheelsofchance.files.wordpres...912-192337.jpg

If I was doing a hammock I'd go with the Hennessy ultralight with the zip and use my neo-air as butt insulation. I figure I'd pack it in a compression sack and try to reduce the volume as much as possible.

YIKES! that's a huge tent! And i know the contrail is one of the lightest tents around.

I want a shelter that packs up the size of a softball. okay, maybe a grapefruit.

My current 11 oz. tarp (Golite lair 1) system + tyvek ground cloth + mosquito netting is very minimal in size and packs up to a half liter or so, about like asana cycles' paratarp, but I'm going to sew an 18" perimeter skirt & front of no see-um netting to it and it will increase the packed volume somewhat.

If you have the perimeter skirt, will you be leaving the bug net behind, or are the insects just that bad in your neck of the woods?

Headnets are great when the bugs are bad, but sleeping in them is total dirtbag. I want something more spacious than a headnet to escape the bugs in.

headnet camping is total caveman camping. it's just tolerable when the bugs are bad, and can mess with your sanity. BZZZZZZZZ

PLUS, a tarp with a bug net attached will be quite the roomy shelter compared to some of the one-man ultralite tents and hammocks in common use with the UL crowd.

lol

I love this one. its great. and yes, i totally agree that bugs can drive you totally buggy.
well... as for my personal disposition on the subject, as crazy as this will sound, when I was 20, I went thru Jungle School at Fort Sherman Panama. No bug net. No shelter.
so as skewed as I am, when I carry a headnet, its total luxury.

the other option i use, is to simply stay on the move, and when I'm tired enough, and maybe a less buggy place, I rest.

and of course, if its things like airborne insects, being into the wind a little on a ridgeline usually solves everything. simply pitch shelter as a wedge into the wind, and lay in the leeward side.

Haha. Laughed at this.

I cannot camp with bugs. Just can't. I'll sleep wet, sleep cold, sleep warm, I'll even sleep with noise. Can't do insects.

My UL Hammock has a no-see-um net, but on our worst bug day I got bitten through the bottom of the hammock if a part of me rolled off the sleeping pad. Then, in the middle of the night, I leaned a knee against the No-See-Um net in my sleep. Was wearing Under Armour tights. Woke up in the morning with 30+ localized bugbites on that one knee. Pretty ugly looking.

Other than that, zero moskito problems. That one night, it was in a park in the middle of a city next to a lake during a rainstorm. They found our shelters and went to town.


Plus sides:

A: I slept. I know I said "no insects" but I guess that's only in the face.

B: I now have the knowledge that a simple space blanket-style tarp solves bug issues in areas with hellish insects.

C: Sleeping in the silk liner when it's too warm for a silk liner is worth it just to prevent rogue kneeing....

Interesting thread. I notice, though, that 99% of descriptions of what gear one carries, and how one carries it, are completely without mention of why and where one is carrying it. I suspect that apparent discrepancies between different people's loading policies would be smoothed out enormously if we accounted for that each time.

ya, i used to train myself to simply ignore bugs. Simply let the mosquitos bite.

However, in this day and age of continental West Nile and lord knows what else, aspiring for a comfortable, bug free UL camping setup seems the only prudent course of action. And I usually favor leeward sites.

EDIT: fixed incorrect link to Oware http://shop.bivysack.com/main.sc has some great UL tarp structures, and he's offering a Net Tarp that inspired my new project. Off to the fabric store today!

I hate bugs, but DEET and a Contrail provide pretty good protection. If you have the opportunity to light a fire that keeps the bugs away too, but you go to bed smelling like BBQ

I'm not into letting bugs bite, but I am quick to simply leave.

as to west nile, well, obviously one could look up the geographics, I guess that goes to suggest, no outdoor dining in Houston?