oh, it's spread up the Mississippi and has established a presence in equine populations across the american west, West Nile is likely to get worse in coming years.

going bug free is more prudence and convenience. Growing awareness of pesky insect borne disease has gradually eroded my support over the years for just wallowing out in the open. I've been using tarps regularly for decades- since the early 80's - but my unabashed support for them has declined..



I don't like to pitch a lean to or tarp face into the wind, because that's usually where the bad weather is going to come from!

I usually pitch FOOT into the wind.

...Key word being "usually". Against that common wisdom, there were a few nights last summer I pitched head into the wind. Those nights were 90F+ at sunset, 70F+ dewpoint, and the only way to keep sane was to catch every bit of breeze possible. There was no rain in the five-day forecast. Still, it went against the grain.

This thread sure has drifted. It's been a good one, though.

Another great weekend. S36O, about ~136 miles, 10k in climbing. Pave, dirt and gravel, trail, hike a bike, forest roads, a scramble where a bridge used to be.

2 different ways to do it, although Greg wants something to tour on other than his Surly Pacer. Especially when he goes out with me.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8440/7...99c45b2bc2.jpg
IMG_8103 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

We both had base weights of about 18-20 pounds.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8462/7...0abf6b6f10.jpg
my tarp tent contrail by mbeganyi, on Flickr


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8042/7...eae3bf5eb0.jpg
IMG_8222 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8456/7...eb826c0f43.jpg
IMG_8187 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Speaking of pitching, we made camp at about 8pm. By 10:30 when we put the las few pieces of wood on the fire the wind had done a 180. So the door of my Contrail was head into the wind. I should have turned it .... Survived the wind and the rain. Greg was hanging first time in a hammock in the trees. Heard some wind, didn't really notice. I had a few gusts that felt like they were lifting me and the tent up.

Next time I'll change pitch... But it's damned hard to do when the ground is so full of rocks and you are beat. More so after laying on my rain jacket in front of the fire for an hour looking at the Milky Way.

I see you did Granville Gulf and stopped at the Warren Store........that's a great combination.

Re-hanging a hammock takes minutes... except you never need to re-hang it since you'll never be in a wet spot on the ground, and wind from any direction is nothing. Hammocks are good like that :)

Yeah... Love my Hennessy, but the contrail packs smaller and is a pound lighter.

A couple of good places for sure. Get through there 5-6 times a year.

Making camp by 8, must have been chilly. I was out around mtl Saturday until about 8 and we had some light showers earlier. Sunday was out again in the Montgomery, Vt area and it ended up being beautiful wasn't it? You guys certainly covered a lot of distance and had long days.
I'm hoping to get to that neck of the woods again this fall with the same friends.
Cheers

ultralight sounds good
but what about proportion between body weight and total weight

is there an GOLDEN RULE for peak efficiency ??

None that I know of at least for lighter touring. I have heard it said that you should carry no more than some percentage of your body weight. I forget what that percentage was. Maybe 50% including the bike?

That really does not apply to ultralight touring for most people because they would be way below that number.

understood

but I still will claim that heavier rider,
have the comfort of taking more "stuff"
proportionally to his own weight

I might agree if you said stronger rider rather than heavier. Still I believe that less weight in gear, bike or on the body will make for a more enjoyable ride and that, with good gear choices, you won't compromise off bike comfort until you are well below 20lbs of gear. Obviously, common sense has to be applied to where and when you are touring and appropriate gear and supplies choices made, but being 20lbs overweight would not encourage me to load up another 20lbs of useless gear.

My point isn't that a larger rider can't carry more it is just that there is no need to. To me comfort on tour is at least 80% about comfort on the bike which to me means a light load and much of the remaining 20% is comfort while sleeping. Sleeping comfort means being warm enough, dry, and having a comfy sleeping pad. Since the most comfortable pad I have ever slept on weighs 12 ounces and my sleeping bag weighs 1 pound, sleeping in comfort doesn't require a lot of weight.

I guess the bottom line for me is that I don't buy into the more stuff = more comfort thing. To a large extent I find the opposite to be true, there obviously is some lower limit, but the more I experiment the more I discover that the lower limit is a lot less than I would have guessed.

I could not agree more, but you're preaching to the choir with me.

I find that less stuff is also just less to organize and worry about. I like the simplicity of touring and don't want the clutter and complications of a lot of unnecessary stuff.

Definitely. When it comes down to it that what it is really all about for me. Not having lots of stuff and therefore having a really simple life on the road is a huge plus. It is so nice to have simple choices of just a few things that have been proven to get the job done.

I though I recognized one of the dirt roads.......Lover's Lane. That was a Godsend for me a few year back on my trip to Montreal when I discovered the bridge on Rt2 into Waterbury was closed for construction.

It's funny, but the avid UL riders in this post have by and large "simplified" their kits by carryinh the world's smallest air camping mattress and half a sleeping bag ;) instead of just wrapping any old thing up in a foam pad and strapping it to the back rack, like the simpler days of bike touring before Ultralite was even a buzzword except in Colin Fletchers' mind.

Totally agreed. To me comfort during the tour comes not only from the time on bike but off the bike too. It feels really good if you have just really few things to worry about, have no troubles finding stuff in the tent at night, have lots of room for yourself and not panniers (that's the main one for myself!), and ready to go in ten minutes.

I will not worry about an extra pound that should save me 10 minutes on the road if i keep wasting 30 in the camp. But again, that's not UL, only common sense. Is there a common sense evangelism thread? :)

I was taught one should not carry more than 1/3 of body weight (add bike and you get close to the 50% range you mentioned). This for normal hiking, and YMMV as much as ever. Some people routinely aim higher, especially in winter. In the context of this thread, the rule of thumb is probably way too high.

--J

Yes the $$$ spent on a few items of gear has definitely gone up as their weight has gone down and time has passed, but the carrying methods and gear lists are probably similar to those used in the days of avocado and burnt orange.

I slept under a tarp on couple of trips during the carter administration :lol:

True, but I didn't get into much higher dollar stuff until I was well below 20 pounds. Even now my gear total for my last trip was right at $1000. I bet that is well below average for the general touring population. That counts all of the camping gear and baggage, but not clothing or things like a camera. I figure most folks probably already have clothing and a camera.

That does not include the bike but for me those were inexpensive as well. My current lightweight road touring bike and my MTB are both 1990-ish Cannondales and are pretty nearly stock. Something close to either of them could probably be found for the $300 neighborhood. The modifications I did do were mostly from the used parts bin at a cost of $0.

It is pretty easy to go to reasonably light even on a tight budget. A while back I went through my list and made a list of lower priced but reasonable substitutes for the gear and it came to $330, again not including clothing assuming the rider already owns clothing. It should be noted that even that was not the rock bottom price. Cheaper alternatives and careful shopping could lower that a good bit more. The prices were full regular price from REI or some other supplier with no sale prices factored in. Also they were not necessarily the cheapest reasonable options. I bet that in a pinch a set of light but functional gear could be assembled for under $200 if you were frugal and resourceful.

So bottom line... Going light is not necessarily a high dollar endeavor and in fact can be done on a minimal budget. If I were starting out with nothing and needed to I wouldn't hesitate to take off on a multi month trip with the stuff in my budget list. My higher priced items are nice, but definitely not a necessity. For those who are interested the list can be found in my "Less Encumbered Touring" article in the section named "Ultralight on a budget".

This is the ultra light evangelist thread, not the 'you go to tour with the gear you got' thread.

FWIW, my bag and pad need upgrading to get me into the ultra category. Big Agnes stuff is what I could get locally and snagged it on sale prior to thinking about a bag like yours that packs even smaller and probably cost more $$.