Narrowed it to Two Tents
11-25-12 | 12:09 PM
#26
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Yep, agreed on every count.
11-25-12 | 12:42 PM
#27
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If you can put 4 pegs in the ground, the Hilleberg Nammatj 3 GT is extremely simple and fast to set-up. The outer and inner tent are linked together so when you set up the tent, you erect both at the same time. Your inner tent doesn't get wet if it's raining, in contrast to tents where you have to set up the inner tent first and than throw the outer fly over it. When it's raining hard, that's quite nice...
11-25-12 | 01:23 PM
#28
This is Shangri La
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Pasadena, CA
Re cooking in a vestibule: I agree it is not idea and yes in bear country cooking near where you sleep is not a good idea. That said, in areas where there are no bears and it pissing rain and you need somewhere to cook (or take off your wet gear or escape from bugs) a dry vestibule can come in very handy. Do make sure you have good ventilation. I've read several accounts of mountain climbers dying from poor ventilation while cooking in their tents.
Re set up time: I've had numerous types of free and non-freestanding tents. For the general user a free standing tent is easier and faster to set up. Obviously everyone is different and conditions change. I've set up a pyramid style tent on a slab of granite using large rocks and it worked fine even with high winds. Was it optimal? No but it worked. Also my go to tent these days is a non-freestanding Six Moon Designs tent. I put up with the condensation, spending extra time looking for a site with good stake out options, and slower set up times because of the crazy light weight and small size. But not everyone is willing to put up with kind of stuff.
Re set up time: I've had numerous types of free and non-freestanding tents. For the general user a free standing tent is easier and faster to set up. Obviously everyone is different and conditions change. I've set up a pyramid style tent on a slab of granite using large rocks and it worked fine even with high winds. Was it optimal? No but it worked. Also my go to tent these days is a non-freestanding Six Moon Designs tent. I put up with the condensation, spending extra time looking for a site with good stake out options, and slower set up times because of the crazy light weight and small size. But not everyone is willing to put up with kind of stuff.
11-25-12 | 07:54 PM
#29
Used to be fast
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: So Cal
Bikes: 85 Specialized Expedition, 07 Motobecane Immortal Spirit built up with Dura ace and Mavic Ksyriums, '85 Bianchi Track Bike, '90 Fisher Procaliber, '96 Landshark TwinDirt Shark Tandem, '88 Curtlo
I am 6'5" and have the T2+ tent. I fit great with gear inside. I would go with the REI tent for a few previously mentioned reasons. It is plenty big for you and your panniers, my T2 is less than 4lbs, it is free standing, and you cannot beat the service and warranty of REI.
I think carrying a T3 would just be extra weight, unless you enjoy having the extra room and don't mind the trade off of weight.
I think carrying a T3 would just be extra weight, unless you enjoy having the extra room and don't mind the trade off of weight.
11-25-12 | 09:51 PM
#30
eternalvoyage
Joined: Feb 2007
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There is a detailed review of the Nammatj 3 GT at backpackgeartest.org.
The reviewer especially appreciated the vestibule, which he called the crowning glory of the tent's design.
For, among other things, cooking and seating seven....
And for the ability to create one extra-large space.
The issues involved in cooking in a vestibule have not been covered or explored very thoroughly in this thread. There are more aspects to it.
The reviewer especially appreciated the vestibule, which he called the crowning glory of the tent's design.
For, among other things, cooking and seating seven....
And for the ability to create one extra-large space.
The issues involved in cooking in a vestibule have not been covered or explored very thoroughly in this thread. There are more aspects to it.
11-25-12 | 10:54 PM
#31
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From: Sequim, Washington on the Olympic Peninsula
Bikes: Co-Motion Mocha, Fuji touring, Trex hybrid, Bike Friday Tandem Traveler
Given these two options, the REI tent would be the clear winner for me. Here's why:
1) The REI tent is free standing, while the Nammatj 2GT isn't. I find that free standing tents are generally faster and easier to pitch plus they give you more placement options than non-free standing tents. I've camped in places where the ground was so hard it was impossible to get a tent peg into the ground! Nice to be able to erect the tent, then move it around... or open the door, hold it vertically, and shake all the dirt out of it
Having used both types of tents, I would never buy a tent that wasn't free standing
2) The MSRP of the REI tent is significantly less than that of the Nammatj... especially if you wait for one of REI's 20% off sales
3) The REI tent has a lot more floor area than the Nammatj. The flip side of this is that the Nammatj has quite a bit more vestibule area. You'll have to decide which is more important to you. I tend not to use much vestibule space. Bugs and varmints can get into the vestibule and the ground can get pretty swampy when it rains. I might leave a muddy pair of shoes in the vestibule, but tend to keep most other items inside the tent.
1) The REI tent is free standing, while the Nammatj 2GT isn't. I find that free standing tents are generally faster and easier to pitch plus they give you more placement options than non-free standing tents. I've camped in places where the ground was so hard it was impossible to get a tent peg into the ground! Nice to be able to erect the tent, then move it around... or open the door, hold it vertically, and shake all the dirt out of it
Having used both types of tents, I would never buy a tent that wasn't free standing2) The MSRP of the REI tent is significantly less than that of the Nammatj... especially if you wait for one of REI's 20% off sales
3) The REI tent has a lot more floor area than the Nammatj. The flip side of this is that the Nammatj has quite a bit more vestibule area. You'll have to decide which is more important to you. I tend not to use much vestibule space. Bugs and varmints can get into the vestibule and the ground can get pretty swampy when it rains. I might leave a muddy pair of shoes in the vestibule, but tend to keep most other items inside the tent.
11-26-12 | 09:02 AM
#32
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Uh...8 lbs packed weight? You will likely be miserable when you hit that first little incline. When the GF and I tour, I carry a 3P hybrid that comes in at 6.25 lbs. That's more than I like to carry. When I tour solo,I carry an MSR Hubba Hubba. I am thinking about going lighter.
As someone noted, what is the packed size of the H? You don't want a giant stuff sack hanging off your rack. When it's raining, or about to, you are going to wish you had the easiest tent to set up. When there is a picnic shelter with a concrete floor you can pitch your tent under, you are going to wish you had a free standing tent.
Since you seem to have a budget for an expensive tent, the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL3 might meet your needs, It's got something like 44 sq. ft. of floor space and two vestibules. Free standing. Packed weight is under 5 lbs. Two friends of mine rode across the country with one this summer. One of them in very tall. They had no problems. I believe REI still carries it so you can check it out in the store. If they don't have one pitched they will pitch it for you.
As someone noted, what is the packed size of the H? You don't want a giant stuff sack hanging off your rack. When it's raining, or about to, you are going to wish you had the easiest tent to set up. When there is a picnic shelter with a concrete floor you can pitch your tent under, you are going to wish you had a free standing tent.
Since you seem to have a budget for an expensive tent, the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL3 might meet your needs, It's got something like 44 sq. ft. of floor space and two vestibules. Free standing. Packed weight is under 5 lbs. Two friends of mine rode across the country with one this summer. One of them in very tall. They had no problems. I believe REI still carries it so you can check it out in the store. If they don't have one pitched they will pitch it for you.
11-26-12 | 10:29 AM
#33
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From: City of Brotherly Love
Bikes: Raleigh Companion, Nashbar Touring, Novara DiVano, Trek FX 7.1, Giant Upland
I have a Camp Dome 2 and a Quarter Dome T3. I prefer the Camp dome because it's much easier to setup and break down solo. I use the Quater Dome only If I'm staying in the same site for multiple nights or if I'm not alone.
11-27-12 | 08:37 AM
#34
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From: Raleigh, NC
Bikes: Waterford RST-22, Bob Jackson World Tour, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Soma Saga, De Bernardi SL, Specialized Sequoia
I was shopping for tents earlier this year and my first choice was a Big Agnes Copper Spur 2. It had all the features I wanted and was extremely light weight. However, I ended up buying an REI Quarter Dome because it was so much cheaper -- about half the price -- and only weighed 1 lb more. I got the previous version of the Quarter Dome, which was on sale at the REI Outlet for about $200 with ground pad. What I like about the Quarter Dome is the poles are relatively short, so it is easy to pack into panniers, and it is also very simple to put up. REI often has its tents on sale (as well as other brands), so I might be worth waiting for a sale.
11-27-12 | 09:01 AM
#35
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From: cherry hill, nj
I was shopping for tents earlier this year and my first choice was a Big Agnes Copper Spur 2. It had all the features I wanted and was extremely light weight. However, I ended up buying an REI Quarter Dome because it was so much cheaper -- about half the price -- and only weighed 1 lb more. I got the previous version of the Quarter Dome, which was on sale at the REI Outlet for about $200 with ground pad. What I like about the Quarter Dome is the poles are relatively short, so it is easy to pack into panniers, and it is also very simple to put up. REI often has its tents on sale (as well as other brands), so I might be worth waiting for a sale.
11-27-12 | 09:09 AM
#36
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From: cherry hill, nj
Uh...8 lbs packed weight? You will likely be miserable when you hit that first little incline. When the GF and I tour, I carry a 3P hybrid that comes in at 6.25 lbs. That's more than I like to carry. When I tour solo,I carry an MSR Hubba Hubba. I am thinking about going lighter.
As someone noted, what is the packed size of the H? You don't want a giant stuff sack hanging off your rack. When it's raining, or about to, you are going to wish you had the easiest tent to set up. When there is a picnic shelter with a concrete floor you can pitch your tent under, you are going to wish you had a free standing tent.
Since you seem to have a budget for an expensive tent, the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL3 might meet your needs, It's got something like 44 sq. ft. of floor space and two vestibules. Free standing. Packed weight is under 5 lbs. Two friends of mine rode across the country with one this summer. One of them in very tall. They had no problems. I believe REI still carries it so you can check it out in the store. If they don't have one pitched they will pitch it for you.
As someone noted, what is the packed size of the H? You don't want a giant stuff sack hanging off your rack. When it's raining, or about to, you are going to wish you had the easiest tent to set up. When there is a picnic shelter with a concrete floor you can pitch your tent under, you are going to wish you had a free standing tent.
Since you seem to have a budget for an expensive tent, the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL3 might meet your needs, It's got something like 44 sq. ft. of floor space and two vestibules. Free standing. Packed weight is under 5 lbs. Two friends of mine rode across the country with one this summer. One of them in very tall. They had no problems. I believe REI still carries it so you can check it out in the store. If they don't have one pitched they will pitch it for you.
"Failure to prepare is preparing to fail". I usually always do a lot of research before buying. Usually is the key word
11-27-12 | 09:11 AM
#37
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From: Raleigh, NC
Bikes: Waterford RST-22, Bob Jackson World Tour, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Soma Saga, De Bernardi SL, Specialized Sequoia
I really wanted the BA Copper Spur, but it would have cost $400 or more with the ground pad, and I couldn't justify the price since I was also having to buy panniers and other gear. I was pleasantly surprised by the REI Quarter Dome, even though it was my second choice. It packed very small, so used up very little space in my panniers, and the poles easily fit inside. That was a big issue to me because many tents have poles that won't fit inside panniers, and I didn't want them rattling on top of my rack and possibly falling off.
11-27-12 | 09:23 AM
#38
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From: cherry hill, nj
For future reference for anyone who reads or find this thread after the fact, here is a good review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTStZ1yI_Tg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTStZ1yI_Tg
11-27-12 | 09:32 AM
#39
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I really wanted the BA Copper Spur, but it would have cost $400 or more with the ground pad, and I couldn't justify the price since I was also having to buy panniers and other gear. I was pleasantly surprised by the REI Quarter Dome, even though it was my second choice. It packed very small, so used up very little space in my panniers, and the poles easily fit inside. That was a big issue to me because many tents have poles that won't fit inside panniers, and I didn't want them rattling on top of my rack and possibly falling off.
I have heard other people say they pack their tents in their panniers. Any special reason you do that? Like most (I think)people, I carry mine on my rear rack. (When I had a North Face Slickrock, I carried in on my front rack platform.) But unlike most people I have seen, it sits parallel with the rack, not perpendicular to it.
11-27-12 | 09:56 AM
#40
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From: Raleigh, NC
Bikes: Waterford RST-22, Bob Jackson World Tour, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Soma Saga, De Bernardi SL, Specialized Sequoia
I carried my tent inside the panniers because I had space to fill. I've got Ortlieb Classic Roller front and rear panniers to balance the weight distribution, so have a lot of storage space. With a larger load, I could always carry the tent on top of the rack but that is not an issue for me with short tours.
11-27-12 | 10:15 AM
#41
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Consider also the need to get up at night to have a pee outside... you need to be able to facilitate that with some high degree of efficiency.
I won't go near trying being drunk in charge of a tent. Or maybe I will... there is a tendency to lean and fall, and that broke a fibreglass tent pole on my first long tour. I learned that lesson quite well early on, too.
11-27-12 | 10:52 AM
#42
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From: British Columbia, Canada
If a tent is large enough for me to lie down and stretch out without bumping into any of its walls and if the highest part is high enough to allow me to sit up without my head touching the fabric, then it's big enough. If a tent is much larger than my needs, the added weight and bulk will be an inconvenience.
11-27-12 | 11:13 AM
#43
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From: Cherry Hill,NJ
Chef, why not go down to the local REI and have a look around? Having a store so close by really gives you a shopping advantage. The people in that store are friendly and very helpful. I'm sure they would set up any tent you want to see. Not that the advice here isn't good for research, it is, but nothing beats checking the product first hand.
11-27-12 | 01:28 PM
#44
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Heh. On my first tour I fell backwards getting out of my tent after a few too many and tore the fly a bit. Nothing a little fabric tape couldn't fix. Kind of surprised it didn't happen more often. Drinking was a pretty regular post-ride activity for several in our group of twelve. For one in our group, it was a mid-ride activity.
11-27-12 | 01:53 PM
#45
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From: cherry hill, nj
Chef, why not go down to the local REI and have a look around? Having a store so close by really gives you a shopping advantage. The people in that store are friendly and very helpful. I'm sure they would set up any tent you want to see. Not that the advice here isn't good for research, it is, but nothing beats checking the product first hand.
Great idea. I went last night and talked with the gent who teaches the outdoor classes. Awesome experience and was very thankful for his time.
11-27-12 | 04:29 PM
#47
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From: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: Cannondale Topstone gravel bike Dahon MU folder w/2x8 speed internal drive train
It's not a deal breaker, but it can be a tie breaker. It is very nice to have the tent zipper and your sleeping bag zipper on the same side. If you ever have to get out of your tent in the middle of the night with a cramp in your leg, it's a god send.
11-27-12 | 06:46 PM
#48
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I can't see how it would be a tie-breaker, to be honest.
11-27-12 | 07:38 PM
#49
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From: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: Cannondale Topstone gravel bike Dahon MU folder w/2x8 speed internal drive train
I suppose it depends on how the tent zipper and opening(s) are constructed. Many light and ultra-light tents, even if they are designed for two people, are not symmetrical end to end. My one person touring tent is about 45 inches high and wide at one end and has MRI tube dimensions at the other end. And even though the tent opening is at the end it would be nice if both zippers were on the same side, which they are not. Yes "To be honest," it is not the end of the world, but with my previous tent they were and it was just a little easier and smoother getting in and out. If you are in a big three or four person tent it is not going to make a hoot of difference.
11-27-12 | 08:59 PM
#50
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and this is why I continue to be enlightened from this site after all these years. I had never once considered the matching of zipper sides as to the desirability of a tent. Something to consider.