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Touring on a LWB Recumbent

Old 05-07-13, 11:22 PM
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Touring on a LWB Recumbent

Following a discussion at the Australian Bicycle Forums I have started thinking about the possibility of touring on a LWB recumbent.

Whilst my first priority is to purchase a Sinner Bikes Mango and hopefully (pesos and weight and health allowing that will be later this year) I would also like a "conventional" touring/Audax/commuter in the stable as well which would replace my Kinesis Racelight Granfondo, Look 555 and Surly Long Haul Trucker, i.e., go back to three bikes: Mango, tourer and MTB.

The styling and riding position of the LWB recumbents like the Easy Racer Tour Easy and Gold Rush Replica appeal to me hence this thread to discuss them as touring bikes etc.

I really like the look of the Ti-Rush but suspect the pricing will make it hard to justify



Still it would make a good "all-rounder" if one could lower the gearing for touring.

The other options is the Gold Rush Replica in aluminium ... just need to get over the idea one cannot tour on aluminium frame I suspect I would use such a bike for more "gentle" Australian road touring with some gravel here and there, rather than full on expedition riding going forward.



The other option in the Easy Racer range is the Tour Easy. I do wonder though if it would be as good as an "all-rounder."



I am also aware of the Rans Stratus XP. I am not so keen on the 26" front wheel but.



From a touring perspective the bike would need to be able to:

(1) Take two water bottles and ideally a BBB Fuel Tank XL as well
(2) Ortlieb Bike-Packer rear panniers on the rear rack. I understand a Tubus Cargo will fit the Easy Racer models at least.
(3) Smaller panniers ... underseat I guess and/or tow my Extrawheel Voyager

I also wonder if Easy Racer do a frame kit sell it sans wheels as I would like a dynamo build on the front at least which may mean a comprise in terms of just having a "touring front wheel."

Oh which ever one was decided on would also have a fairing fitted.

Thoughts?

Andrew
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Old 05-08-13, 02:37 AM
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I`ve had a recumbent (SWB) for a few years now, but never tried touring on it. A few general comments:

Those are all nice bikes, and none are likely to be found cheap. Since it sounds like you haven`t ridden one much (any?), I`d try to get some miles in on a loaner before spending a lot of money. Some folks just love their bents to death and really do have no use for any other bikes, but they aren`t for everyone. There are also huge differences between one style recumbent and another- even more than the differences between different styles of "upright" bikes. I definitely recommend against selling off all your other bikes before you`ve tried putting a bent into the use you have in mind for it. It sounds like you want to keep at least one DF anyway, but I can`t tell for sure from the wording.

I see no reason you wouldn`t be able to put an mtb crank on that TiRush. The more in-the-know folks on BROL or the recumbent subforum here will be able to tell you that definitely (as soon as they finish telling you that recumbent is the only way to fly). Will that be low enough for you? If not, the super long chainline should make it relatively easy to install a Mountain Tamer or some other quad setup for mega gear range. My SWB has 24-36-50 and I can use the full width of the cassette in any ring with no crosschaining issues whatsoever.

If you buy a frameset somehow, be prepared to do a lot of figuring things out, adapting, and piecing together. It`s doable of course, but not as simple as with a more conventional bike. Buying a complete would be much simpler, and you can always lace up a dyno wheel and keep the original for good measure.

My experience with long wheelbase bents is very limited, but I`m sure they`d be fine on most gravel roads. An occasional riding buddy has ridden his 20/16 EZ1 with me (on my Schwinn) up and down a few dirt roads and does remarkably well- with a 26 or 700 rear wheel bearing 75 to 80 percent of the load, those bikes should be even better suited. I know that some folks even ride SWBs off pavement, but mine sucks as soon as the pavement ends. Either that or I gave up trying too soon!

A lot of what I read about recumbents before I started riding them either turned out to be total BS or to not apply to me and my bike, but the thing about "recumbent legs" applied big time. I put just over 1000 miles on mine the second summer I had it and was just starting to feel strong enough to ride the grades that I frequently ride on my "other" bikes. Expect that and don`t feel discouraged if you`re still struggling in two months just because you read somewhere that it`ll take you "a few hundred miles" to get your legs reconditioned for the different position.

Last edited by rodar y rodar; 05-08-13 at 02:43 AM.
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Old 05-08-13, 04:01 AM
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Two serious disadvantages to the bent format as a tourer. Climbing and visibility to automobiles. If you are willing to accept, even after you get your bent legs, that any significant grade will just suck royale, especially long mountain climbs, and use a flag or two, then you will do just fine. The advantage to the bent, is of course, comfort, except for the sweaty back problem. No way around that one. Please do take many looonngg test rides, and include lots of hills, before you buy, not everyone likes them just as not everyone likes an upright bike. Each has their own set of problems.
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Old 05-08-13, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero
Two serious disadvantages to the bent format as a tourer. Climbing and visibility to automobiles.
None of the LWB bikes that Aushiker posted are particularly low, his head would be about the same height as a DF rider in the drops (except that he'll have an easier time seeing what's around him). So the actually being seen is pretty much a break-even affair. But 'bents are uncommon enough that they are spotted much more easily by most drivers compared to regular bikes. So the visibility thing isn't a problem at all.

Second, the climbing thing is mostly a myth as well. The real issue is that on the flats, being in a more aerodynamic position means that it takes less power to go the same speed as a DF bike, so a weaker 'bent rider can keep up with a stronger DF rider. Climbing a hill, aero becomes a lot less important, and a weaker rider climbs more slowly. People who are strong 'bent riders can climb hills just fine. (Having a stiff efficient drive train is important and there are some 'bents where this isn't the case, but the bikes the OP selected should be fine).

I'll agree that test rides are a good idea. So we don't disagree about everything.
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Old 05-08-13, 06:36 AM
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I've taken my Tour Easy on about 25 miles of rough gravel with no significant problem, meaning it never slid out from under me. No good at all in sand/pea gravel of course. Mine does have a wide front tire.

As for touring, it has a rear rack where I can hang two large panniers and a rack pack. It came with 4 btl cage mounts. Behind the mesh seat back, there is storage space for 6 liters of water and/or clothes between the seat frame and back, a handy feature, used frequently.

As for climbing, yeah it's slower than a DF. All bents are. OTOH, if you stop to rest, it is much easier to restart. I like that part. I can balance at 3 mph.

As for visibility, a flag is good. Once spotted by a driver tho, the bike style does get their attention, and maybe a bit more respect than a DF.

As with most bents, long days of pedaling with no aches or pains is the usual.

Last edited by Cyclebum; 05-08-13 at 06:40 AM.
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Old 05-08-13, 08:19 AM
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Front wheel load stabilizes it a bit too.. one of my friends said, it got his [Ryan Vanguard USS , LWB] bike
to have a hands off steering at times,
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Old 05-09-13, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
Those are all nice bikes, and none are likely to be found cheap. Since it sounds like you haven`t ridden one much (any?), I`d try to get some miles in on a loaner before spending a lot of money. Some folks just love their bents to death and really do have no use for any other bikes, but they aren`t for everyone.
Not ridden one of these no and given my location probably not likely to happen ... nearest recummbent bike dealer (effectively the only one in the country) is about 4,000 odd kilometres away and he does not stock Easy Racer bikes.



If you buy a frameset somehow, be prepared to do a lot of figuring things out, adapting, and piecing together. It`s doable of course, but not as simple as with a more conventional bike. Buying a complete would be much simpler, and you can always lace up a dyno wheel and keep the original for good measure.
It seems that the price difference does not make it viable as you suggest so have canned that idea.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Andrew
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Old 05-09-13, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyclebum
I've taken my Tour Easy on about 25 miles of rough gravel with no significant problem, meaning it never slid out from under me. No good at all in sand/pea gravel of course. Mine does have a wide front tire.
The sort of dirt road riding I do is mainly hard pack, well sometimes some mud and sand and corrugations but that is life I guess A bit like this ..



BTW what is the largest tyre you can put on the front and rear?

As for touring, it has a rear rack where I can hang two large panniers and a rack pack. It came with 4 btl cage mounts. Behind the mesh seat back, there is storage space for 6 liters of water and/or clothes between the seat frame and back, a handy feature, used frequently.
Thanks. That is great to know.

Thanks
Andrew
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Old 05-10-13, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Aushiker
Not ridden one of these no and given my location probably not likely to happen ... nearest recummbent bike dealer (effectively the only one in the country) is about 4,000 odd kilometres away and he does not stock Easy Racer bikes.
Hmmm... that is tough. If it`s any consolation, most people around the globe have limited access to them, though not usually THAT bad. Have you asked around at BROL? I know there are several active members from Austrlia. Still a crap shoot, but you never know- might find a loaner only 3000 KM away

Remember that TEs through the ages have come with just about every wheel size under the sun, so tires will vary accordingly. If you have any choice in the matter, 406 tires are available from 1.25 width to at least 2.0, maybe more. Many riders of 451 wheels lament a total lack of tires wider than 1-3/8, so no matter how much room the frame has they`re rolling skinny. Some of the relatively obscure 24 and 26 inch tires are also limited to skinnies, so take a peek at what tires are available if your rear is anything other than 559 or 622. Calhouns` website is a good place to get a general idea because their tire section is conveniently organized by bead diameter.
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Old 05-10-13, 04:02 AM
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Andrew, Just going by a very good friend's recumbent experience (He's owned several.), something similar to the Tour Easy's design is the easiest to adapt to and to use for a variety of riding. This maybe important if you have a limited ability to test ride different designs. He's also kept a roadie and a mountain bike, FWIW.

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Old 05-10-13, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bradtx
He's also kept a roadie and a mountain bike, FWIW.
A very large fraction of recumbent riders (going by BROL members at least) keep one or more DF bikes. You can happily go to the dark side but still keep "real" bikes.
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Old 05-10-13, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
Hmmm... that is tough. If it`s any consolation, most people around the globe have limited access to them, though not usually THAT bad. Have you asked around at BROL? I know there are several active members from Austrlia. Still a crap shoot, but you never know- might find a loaner only 3000 KM away
Yes posted on BROL and and also a discussion going on at the Australia Cycling Forums but you have given me an idea to ask on the WAHPV mailing list. Not very active these days but worth a shot for sure.

Remember that TEs through the ages have come with just about every wheel size under the sun, so tires will vary accordingly. If you have any choice in the matter, 406 tires are available from 1.25 width to at least 2.0, maybe more. Many riders of 451 wheels lament a total lack of tires wider than 1-3/8, so no matter how much room the frame has they`re rolling skinny. Some of the relatively obscure 24 and 26 inch tires are also limited to skinnies, so take a peek at what tires are available if your rear is anything other than 559 or 622. Calhouns` website is a good place to get a general idea because their tire section is conveniently organized by bead diameter.
Your thoughts are in line with what I have been reading so have pretty much settled on a the idea of a 406 front wheel with a dynamo. I was/am curious about how wide the trye can go with mudguards. By the looks David Cambon was running 40 mm tyres on his Tour Easy.

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Old 05-10-13, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bradtx
Andrew, Just going by a very good friend's recumbent experience (He's owned several.), something similar to the Tour Easy's design is the easiest to adapt to and to use for a variety of riding. This maybe important if you have a limited ability to test ride different designs. He's also kept a roadie and a mountain bike, FWIW.
Good to know. I will keep my MTB for off-road touring and may well hold on to my aluminum commuter. I really need to sell at least the Surly Long Haul Trucker and the Look 555 to make room/help finance this but don't need to sell the commuter first so can hold on to it and see how things pan out.

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Old 05-10-13, 08:30 AM
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SWB recumbent bikes can work well for touring as well. David Byrne rode his aluminum Cruzbike Sofrider around the world (with panniers both behind and under the seat). If you aren't tied to LWB recumbents, it's worth considering. (His wife is riding a Cruzbike Quest

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Old 05-12-13, 05:35 AM
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BROL or even crazyguy has an area for bent touring that are worth a look. I'd consider the HP Velotechnik Street Machine if I were to tour on a bent.
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Old 05-12-13, 07:17 AM
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I agree with previous comments about perhaps doing a test ride as well.

I've toured with a variety of bicycles including Trek 520, Easy Racer Tour Easy, Trek 4500 mountain bike. I since sold the Tour Easy but do still have a Lightfoot Ranger LWB. The Lightfoot gets sold as a "recumbent mountain bike" with two 26 inch wheels. A few of my general perceptions from my touring and riding:

1. Except for places with lots of short sharp hills, I'm a little faster riding and touring on the recumbent than on my Trek 520. Austin, TX seems to have enough of these shorter hills that around there I found I'm a little faster on upright bikes. For long grades (e.g. USA west) I have similar speed climbing on the recumbent as on diamond frame bike and am a little faster on the flats. For shorter hills, the recumbent is heavier and this seems to add up.
2. Long wheelbase recumbent seems to do fine for most gravel roads in US/Canada. Again for those with worse corrugation I miss being able to stand to get through the worst bumps. So for on-road and a lot of off-road the recumbent would do fine. For some of the roads on my most recent ride (across Africa) I'm happy I was on a mountain bike and not my recumbent.
3. Recumbent exercises different muscles. I typically like some variety and hence if I'm doing a shorter weekend tour on one bike, I'll do my weekend commuting to work on the other bike. There are preferences here (sometimes very strong ) and hence useful to see what you like.
4. As mentioned, the larger of these recumbent bikes (such as TiRush or Tour Easy or my Lightfoot Ranger) with a larger rider such as myself really isn't much different in height as a small person on diamond frame bike - or for that matter two riders on a 26" tandem. There are good underseat racks as well as rear racks to take. My ranger has couplers, but is also big enough that it becomes more awkward to transport on on-way trips or ones involving flights.

Still do most of my touring on diamond frame bikes, but having a long wheelbase recumbent is a fun switch occasionally.
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Old 05-12-13, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cplager
SWB recumbent bikes can work well for touring as well. David Byrne rode his aluminum Cruzbike Sofrider around the world (with panniers both behind and under the seat). If you aren't tied to LWB recumbents, it's worth considering. (His wife is riding a Cruzbike Quest

Is that locked knee position correct?
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Old 05-12-13, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAura
Is that locked knee position correct?
Good catch! No, it's not. You want your leg the same as you would on a DF bike (I've posted this picture a dozen times and I never noticed before.)
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Old 05-13-13, 09:51 AM
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The best LWB I have ridden and owned is a Ryan Recumbent (now Longbikes) Love it as I am able to to power up hills much more effectively than the hands in your face position. I also found my arms and hands liked it better. Certainly one I would include in the test ride group.
As for the efficiency of the bent up hill, loaded, etc. I have done short tours on the bent several times and that is how my opinion was formed. The experiences I have had on a Vision I had was negative with any serious up hill challenge. It was slow and frustrating. The Ryan was much more acceptable, but still does not match the efficiency of the drop bar bike. As for flats, bent or drop bar were really at odds with each other. I never found the recumbent aerodynamic advantage so many claim. At the end of the day the drop bar bike was always faster regardless of terrain.
When driving a car I find most bents difficult to see. I have had many customers complain about them as well. People just cannot see you as well. Your head level is most certainly below that of a drop bar bike rider. The seat covers up most of your back making neon clothing far less visible.
You must use flags!
My bent sits unused now, saving it for my retirement years (I am mid fifties now). It is fun to play with every so often and is comfortable as a couch for sure! It is a complete set of 8 speed Campy off road drive train. Really cool old stuff. Sure wish something could be done about the sweaty back thing...
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Old 05-13-13, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero
Love it as I am able to to power up hills much more effectively than the hands in your face position. I also found my arms and hands liked it better.
I don`t think I`d ever get used to "driving" with underseat steering, but I once stoked a tandem with my hands in that position. Very comfy, indeed. And nice of the captain to block all the wind for me, too

Maybe due to very upright seating position and closed hip angle, but I don`t find a whole lot of disadvantage climbing on my `bent compared to on DFs, nor a lot of advantage into the wind or on flats and downhills. All my single bikes are about the weight too, so maybe just not being heavier is also part of the equation. Best benefit for me and on my bent is the easy forward view.

Don`t recall ever seeing a recumbent through the window of my car.
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