Burton

Well guess what finally started shipping after making a debut at the ExpoCycle shows last year?

Yup - Thule' new Pack N Pedal racks and luggage system! The luggage looked nice but I was more interested in the racks. This originally marketed as Freeloader racks - the design was interesting enough that Thule apparently bought out the company and used it to support their own line of innovative panniers and travel bags. OK so I was more interested in how it handled Arkel goodies.

The biggest attraction (for me) of the Thule Pack ’n Pedal™ Tour Rack is that it'll mount on either the front or rear of the bike with equal ease, and really doesn't care if you have mounting eyelets or not - its self supporting. So how does that pan out in real life?

Plan on giving this rack some of what I think are the toughest challenges going. Lets start by trying to mount this baby on the front of a hybrid with a wide hydro-formed aluminum fork with no mounting eyelets. Checked the mounting instructions, used the smallest of three mounting brackets, and ..... no problem! The top platform is supposed to have a 25kg load rating. Our 85kg head mechanic thought we should check that so .... he sat on it! It didn't move a bit!

So installed the Thule Pack ’n Pedal™ Side Frames and set the secondary rails to the lowest of two possible positions. That leaves the top rails completely free to lash stuff to the top deck and drops the panniers down to approximately the same position that you'd get with a set of low riders. The panniers I used were Arkel GT18's. The secondary rails are unobstructed so the panniers will sit anywhere but I ended up centering them after reviewing the initial installation since it was possible to both level the front deck AND center the side frames over the front axle independently. The rubber inserts in the Arkel mounting system keep them from drifting very nicely.

Figured I'd test for rigidity by offsetting the load. The rack has a 18kg lateral load rating and I'm guessing thats supposed to be split two ways. So ignoring that - I loaded ONE pannier with about 30lbs of junk and went out for a lopsided test ride. Deliberately hit some train tracks, rough roads and speed bumps at 30kph plus and had not even a hint of an oscillation from the bag rebounding or swaying. A pretty good indication that the racks are amazingly rigid once all the hardware is tightened up. I initially had my doubts because of how the clamps slide to allow for micropositioning everything but seeing is believing. These baby's aren't cheap at $150 including side rails, but IMO they both mount and handle a load better than the OMM Cold Springs dedicated front rack I picked up last year.

Long story short - I'm impressed. The OMM I won't be buying again. These I'm gonna stock, recommend and have available to let people test drive. A couple GT-18's on the front do affect the steering - but in a GOOD way. Can you say 'STEERING DAMPER'? Steering and braking characteristics over 20kph are actually more stable and less effort to control - which should translate to more fun hours in the saddle.

Will see about posting a few photos later in the week.

The next unlikely experiment will be seeing how large a pannier this rack will let someone fit on a size 'small' frame when used as a rear mounted system.

Arkel also has a seat-rail mounted randonneur rack thats recommended for their rear trunk bag and ... the front attachments stop you from mounting that bag further forward. It kinda hangs over the end. Nice bag but needs a more interesting rack. There aren't the same restrictions on the Thule top deck and the top rail will be perfect for those wrap around velcro straps. My fingers are crossed but probably unnecessarily - it already fits very functionally (although it looks a little unorthadox) on the FRONT rack!

Thule's offering a five year warranty on this stuff and they're always excellent with parts availability and customer support so yup ... I'm very interested!

BigAura

Seems like an interesting aftermarket niche product. Good for unusual mounting circumstances. I can't see the advantage over current touring systems. I seems pricey, clunky, ugly, and heavy IMO.

Burton

"clunky, ugly, and heavy" I think you just described how most people feel about touring bikes in general!

But seriously - what I particularly like about these is that they're easy-on / easy-off without mounting hardware. So I'm a lot more likely to NOT leave them on the bike all the time, but can still outfit for a tour or a run on the grocery store within a few minutes.

djb

Thanks for putting this up. Its always good to hear real-life experience from someone who has the experience of diff material, and who has put up very balanced reviews of other stuff on here before. I personally dont have a need for a specialty rack like this, but the interesting bits are the guy sitting on it, and the "one sided" weight test riding on our roads--to others, Montreal has truly some epically crappy road surfaces, so if Burton says the rack didnt sway at all with a heavy one sided pannier load, then this really shows that the rack is sturdy in itself, and that it attaches very well to a bike using its unique system.
I trust what Burton writes, but looking at the photo certainly doesnt look like it would be sturdy, so his testimonial is great to hear how it really behaves.

Personally, for this amount of money, Id buy a Tubus or something that will last for years and years. But it looks like it has its uses (plus as you say, can be off and on quickly, from bike to bike)

cheers

Burton

djb - thanks for that vote of confidence! There's a definate method to this madness - flex results in metal fatigue and eventual breakage. Not the kind of thing that shows up immediately but on an extended tour anything short of a titanium rack that flexes will eventually leave you by the side of the road. Seen too many broken rack stays in the shop to believe anything else. So I'm deliberately overloading this baby and looking for short term shortcomings cause if there aren't any - long term performance under reasonable loads should be boringly acceptable - exactly what I want from my equipment.

So for todays experinent - loaded up the front end with two Arkel GT-18's and an Arkel Tailrider Trunk Bag. Yeah - I know - that's supposed to go in back - it just fits so well in front too - in fact I kinda prefer it to a bar bag anyway. And those little inside mesh pockets each hold a battery pack that can be cross-linked discreetly inside the bag. Battery packs? Yeah - I also used the unused second rail mounting spot on the side frames to mount twin amber LED running lights. Would you believe 14 hours of continuous run time for dual 3W amber LED's?

So after throwing a bunch of stainless steel from the kitchen into the panniers and adding some clothing for bulk - set off on my 13km commute. I'm guessing there's a good 40lbs on the front end. Rides like a dream - no-hands riding is easy over 10kph and braking from 40kph on downhill runs is totally predictable and stress free.

But maybe this is a good time to mention that this isn't exactly a conventional 'touring bike'. It a custom build with a 700c wheel-set, but has a 2" tire up front, a 203mm hydraulic disc brake, and a 21" handlebar with Ergon GP5 grip/barends compared to the 15.5 to 17" bars I usually run on road bikes. The leverage is different and what works beautifully with that combo may not be quite as memorable on something with narrower bars. But I'm kinda chasing something a little different - a 40" wheelbase with the stability of a dedicated touring bike and the versatility of a trail bike. So it needs to be a combination of equipment that works well together.

So far -I'm impressed! Loading the OMM Cold Spring racks resulted in sway even within their stated capacity. OVERLOADING the Thule Pack N Pedal Tour rack up front has resulted in .... a stable ride! Confirmed that front mounting the Arkel GT-54's results in more clearance than rear mounting them so will be looking into doing a few things backwards. Large bulky stuff up front and heavy stuff in smaller panniers in back. Convention doesn't interest me - I just like what works well.

OK - took a few more pictures. As soon as someone decides to give me a break - I'll post them. Haven't actually had a day off since March, but things are going extremely well and why stop when you're on a roll?

BigAura

Real life on this forum is touring. I'm just saying, "we will see" .

djb

I know what you are saying.
On the cost side of things, the most expensive rack I've owned was a Blackburn rear rack bought over 20 yrs ago. I have other reasonably priced racks that have worked fine for many years for my needs, so for me spending this much really wouldn't be something I'd do. If I were to go on a far flung trip, I could see spending for a traditional top rated rack, but I'm not doing that.

Thule does have a good reputation for quality engineered and built stuff, as you say , time will show how the mounting system (i mean the actual hardware) holds up over time.

BigAura

True that. I have, use, and enjoy their automobile kayak rack.

Burton

Have to disagree. Way too many posts in these forums are opinion only and have nothing whatsoever to do with reality. Personally I road test equipment BEFORE leaving on any tour and familiarize myself with gear by using it for commuting and short excursions. I have hundreds of thousands of touring under the saddle and have been doing this off and on for the past 45 years. In all that time I've NEVER had a piece of equipment leave me high and dry someplace because of failure.

So if you think overloading panniers and deliberately seeking out rough roads is a crummy way to evaluate their expected performance - you're entitled to your opinion. But please - save me some trouble then. Buy a set yourself and post what you think is a more appropriate road test.

PS - I actually DO tour with stuff right out of my kitchen. Most of thats SS but occasionally I can justify bringing a small cast iron pan. Usually but not always when traveling with a group. Utensil format, multi usage and practicality are all important to me and nobody yet makes titanium in anything that'll replace what I'm using. The way I travel may be different from the way you travel, and SS may not be on your list - but I can pretty much guarantee your list will have a pile of stuff on it I'd leave home myself. THAT'S real life.

BigAura

I too have 45 years of experience backpacking and bicycle touring (16,000+ touring miles). It's because of this experience that I'm cautious about new products that are "the best thing since thin-sliced bread". There are, at times, disruptor products that are truly outstanding and this could possibly be one of those. But as I've said, actual, real-life touring will be the decider.

I'm also concerned because of the hyperbolic tenor of your post:

• You've only posted raving positives.
• You have a potential conflict-of-interest in that you sell these racks.
• Another poster, djb, is backing you up and he's from your home town.

Sorry, but that's my opinion. I have no vested interest in anything I've ever recommend on this site. My only intent to share my experiences with other touring enthusiasts.

Burton

So here's my response to your concerns:

I only post postive information about products that I happen to like because ...... if I flooded the forum with everything I DON'T like .... I'd need my own section on the forum. Seriously - would you actually want to meet soneone that only whined about everything they didn't like in life? Sorry - I'm only interested in what I think might be actually useful.

I sell what I believe in and to the annoyance of a few people - refuse to do otherwise. If you have a problem with that - what exactly would you suggest? I already try to steer people away from expensive road bikes and towards more reasonably priced hybrids or CX bikes because of the condition of the roads here.

djb is also from Montreal and I've met him exactly once when he dropped by the store to see some Schwalbe Marathon Supremes up close and personal. Other than my opinion that he strikes me as being a reasonable person, we have no affiliation. On the other hand there are several hundred thousand people in the same forum as me (bf) so you really need to stop looking over your shoulder. Cause you're one of them.

Aside from that - I'm not much different than you. Wheither anyone actually buys anything I recommend makes no difference to my paycheck unless its at the shop I work at and I've been extremely careful NOT to disclose that publicly in this forum. So relax - my objective here isn't much different than yours - to share my experiences with other touring enthusiasts.

However, you WILL find some of my techniques and equipment less than conventional by North American standards, but then I've been a bit of a pioneer all my life anyway. And I mean that in a positive way. In most fields I've been about five years ahead of the times.

djb

Aura, fair enough concerns. Yes its a raving positive, with wording that can be a bit "sales pitchish"

Yes, he works in a bike store and sells the things, so one should always be wary of this side of things.

I understand you wondering about me backing him up. We are not friends, last year I went by the store he works at once simply to discover a new bike store I didnt know exist (its in an area I dont have friends in so I never go there) I like bike stores and was curious to see it. I also took a look at the Schwalbe Supreme tires Burton had written about, he had offered to have his bike there with them but I couldnt get out there when that bike was there.

Ive worked in retail before a bit (camera stores) and have a keen nose for when a salesman either doesnt know his stuff and/or is doing the "salesman" thing too hard (especially with bike stuff) In both reading Burtons past posts about panniers (he likes Arkels) or even the expensive Schwalbe Supremes tires, he has been positive about these products, but has also been even handed about how diff competitors products are good too.
Meeting him in person that one time was the same, not pushy, knowledgeable, showed me the line of bikes and such in the store and thats perfectly fine with me.

this rack is a bit like the Supremes, pricey suckers. You know the old saying, "Im too poor to afford to buy cheap stuff"? Thats me, as I have to be careful with what I buy as I want it to last a long time. Back to this rack, I still find it expensive, target market is probably more for someone who doesnt have to be careful like me with what they purchase. I still wonder how it so sturdy, but the test of one heavily loaded side is a good one. Burton was also up front about his specific bike and how its stability and bar width probably was a factor in the "heavy front end test".

I too wonder how the attachment hardware will hold up over time, a regular rack is simple, you screw in the bolts, thats it. Make sure they dont loosen and as I said with my experience, 20-40 dollar racks have worked great for me.
Will this thing not be as sturdy over the years if the attachment points get loosey goosey? I dunno. I guess the issue here is that one of its advantages is that its made for bikes without eyelets, so probably people who buy this wont be loading it too much--buuut its neat to see (or rather, read of) someone who overloads it on purpose to see how it behaves, generally a good indication of its behavior over time.

kinda funny, I havent even seen this rack, nor have any urge nor budget to buy one, and Im defending it....sorry for this. I just wanted more to respond to your questioning my comments vis-a-vis Burton, thats all.

I agree though, one always has to be skeptical about glowing reviews.

Burton

OK so after about a week of having this on the back - my biggest criticism is that I miss having it on the front.
Have completed multiple 13km runs with Arkel GT18's in back lugging 10 liters of juice in the side bags and a 4 liter can of WD40 in the top bag. Thats about 15kg total, well within the rating of the rack and definately more weight than I'd take touring myself.

OK so I really went shopping and picked up a few specials.Maybe my 'touring testing' is a little unconventional by some standards, but this isn't a paid review and since I tend to use a bike as a pack mule whether I'm touring or not - these are all practical tests IMO. I've seen many alloy racks (particularly on ebikes supporting a battery) have the rack stays collapse because of a heavy load and am looking for long term durability in spite of some abuse.

In case anyone is interested - I also personally own and use Axiom Journey racks, Specialized duo racks (front and back) including their 'Six Pack' front rack, Old Man Mountain 'Cold Springs' racks front and back, a Topeak rear beam rack, and a couple OEM Velec ebike racks including a two stage unit specifically designed to house a battery while keeping the top rack platform free. Some were less than $50, a couple were over $150 and am still looking for something generic enough to do anything but specialized enough to do it well.

I happen to like these racks and am waiting for a second to test a dual installation front and back. So far they're the only thing I've found that fills the 'go anywhere /do anything' criteria I'm looking for. On the other hand the Thule bags don't personally hold any real interest for me - I prefer the Arkels I already have. Will post some photos as general info in case some people actually find it useful. If a few people still think their are ulterior motives - hey - you can always skip the thread.

bicyclehobo

Burton thanks for the review. I am getting one for use on the rear of my bike but I would like to mount one of these on my front suspension fork also.

It's a Specialized Future Shock. It's basically a Rock Shox Mag 21 with Carbon Fiber legs. This seems like a very bad idea but I cannot get it out of my head. Here is what the fork looks like.



Could you comment on if you think it would work with the tapered legs AND if I am an idiot to attempt this on carbon fiber. I have seen one installed on the back of a carbon frame.

indyfabz

Hundreds of thousands of touring what? Miles? If so, 200,000 touring miles over 45 years is nearly 4,500/year. Wish I had that sort of time.

Bezalel

This looks like a solution in search of a problem. The best case for this rack is commuting with a full suspension.

Burton

Surprisingly enough - it seems to work fine with the tapered legs. I tried just that on an aluminum tapered front fork to see if anything would move - it didn't. Also wrote the folks at DT Swiss because they make both rigid and suspension front ends in CF. Their major concern was making sure the clear coat was protected to prevent wearing through to the actual carbon weave, and that hanging weight on a suspension fork adds to unsprung weight - kinda defeating the effectiveness of a front suspension. They also cautioned against riding for extended periods of time with a lockout mechanism engaged as its hard on the internal damper. There were no marks of any kind on the alloy front fork after dismantelling everything after a couple hundred kms and running an overloaded rack for that period of time. But it wasn't a suspension fork. Hope this was of some help.

Burton

Sorry for the typo omission - kilometers - I live in Canada. Regardless - have been to just about every National Park on North America at least once -some multiple times.

Started my own business while still in university and broke a six figure income before I was 26 years old which probably helped.

Burton

The rack was originally designed and marketed by a company out of New Zealand under the name Freeload and was initially targeted at off-road touring bikes - some of which had full suspension. Tule liked the concept and versitility enough that - yeah - they bought the company. I liked it enough that I bought the rack. After several weeks of testing, I'm finding a lot about it I like. And I do have a lot of other racks to compare it to.

But feel free to pick your own poison and use whatever personally appeals to you. Different people have different travelling styles and different tastes in equipment.

bicyclehobo

Burton thanks for the reply. Are you placing anything between the rack and the bike? Perhaps a strip of rubber cut from an innertube or maybe it comes with a rubber shim?

I have been eyeballing these for a while and really appreciate the feedback on the testing you are running. There is a poor review on Amazon where the user says the fork slips down and comes into contact with the tire. I am fairly sure now that this is user error.

shipwreck

Personally I agree that they look like some Fischer Price toy, clunky and with no dangerous edges, something designed for sudo serious carrying. But Oh well, if form is following function then so be it. Your testimony seems pretty adequate, I have bought things with less of a recommendation for sure!

Couple of questions since you are giving a review and all. How much removal and installation do you estimate that they will tolerate? Do you think that they might be easily stolen?

Burton

The rack comes stock with a rubber 'foot' which the strapping winches in place. The only possible reason I can see for anything moving is insufficient tightening of the webbing.

Burton

Absolutely impossible to steal since they meed a propriotary cam-key to unlock the racheting mechanism. There is no wear to speak of on the webbing so multiple installation/ removals should be no issue.