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Heavy 36h Wheelsets and 32mm Paselas - Boat Anchors

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Heavy 36h Wheelsets and 32mm Paselas - Boat Anchors

Old 08-13-13, 08:16 AM
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Heavy 36h Wheelsets and 32mm Paselas - Boat Anchors

On my cyclocross/cc tourer I replaced my standard lightweight wheelset and GP4000s with a old set of DC19s running Pasela 32mm (folding) - figured it would be fun to ride the bike for a while with a more legit touring wheelset. OMG, I immediately lost about 5 mph off the top end cruising and spinning it up to speed was like hill climbing. 40 miles, felt like 60.

You guys running heavy touring wheelsets & wider Pasela tires must have legs of steel; entirely comfortable pegged at -16mph. I've used that DC19 wheelset with 28mm Gatorskins, and although slow I could still get a crisp ride out of them. Add those 32mm Paselas it's like dragging something behind me thru mud. Yikes!

Maybe I need to put them at max pressure, I don't know...but that was a stunning difference. I've swapped the wheelset back, .... thinking about eBaying those Paselas.
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Old 08-13-13, 08:34 AM
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Just suggestions but you could always build a wheelset from Velocity Dyads or even Mavic Open Pro 36h, add some butted spokes and a decent hub, and that won't probably be too far from what weight you're accustomed to riding. Also consider some Vittoria Hyper tires in 32mm, a lightweight but robust tire.
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Old 08-13-13, 08:38 AM
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I ran 622 - 40 Nokian A10 and thorn resistant PV tubes on my 9 month puncture free tour..

I am just not in the same rush as you youngsters, to knock out the miles .


sure you dont really want the race, 41, or brevet, 231, section?

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Old 08-13-13, 09:39 AM
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32mm Pasela TG is 350 g. 28mm UltraGator is 320g.

I could see 32mm being too big if you're a light person for unloaded riding but once you toss on 15-35lbs of gear the light wheels are no advantage touring. If you train with racers go ahead and put on the lightest racing wheels and see what a difference it doesn't make wrt keeping up with peers.
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Old 08-13-13, 09:46 AM
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RBW's jack brown 33.3, is a darn light thin tread kevlar bead tire.

Grand Bois out of Japan is another supple wide high performance tire..
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Old 08-13-13, 10:17 AM
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FWIW, my philosophy is that when I'm touring (or commuting) I'm willing to trade some weight for reliability.

Maybe I'm just strong!
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Old 08-13-13, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by LeeG
32mm Pasela TG is 350 g. 28mm UltraGator is 320g.

I could see 32mm being too big if you're a light person for unloaded riding but once you toss on 15-35lbs of gear the light wheels are no advantage touring. If you train with racers go ahead and put on the lightest racing wheels and see what a difference it doesn't make wrt keeping up with peers.
There's clearly a difference in the rolling resistance, the Gatorskins which actually measure out more like 27mm if I recall correctly) are essentially slicks and the Paselas have a tread and a wide profile. Please, let's not get into a wide v narrow argument, those big Pasela's are simply slow tires. But I agree with you, put the load on and everything changes. But, man... even as a rec or training tire those tires are going to be hard to love.
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Old 08-13-13, 11:11 AM
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FrenchFit, I've run my T bike several times unloaded and without a doubt the heavy wheelset/tires make a noticeable difference in response WRT acceleration mostly, and to some degree braking. Once at speed the flywheel effect of the rotating mass maybe even a slight positive. 75 PSI seems to work well for my Pasalas though I've run as little as 65 PSI.

Brad

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Old 08-13-13, 06:08 PM
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Those tires don't exactly have a terrible reputation so maybe they aren't the issue. You swapped wheelsets and mentioned tires and rims but not hubs. But you did describe 'an old set of DC19s running Pasela 32mm's'.

Maybe the issue is the condition of the bearings, cones and the age if the grease in the hubs? If that's the case addressing that would be one of the cheapest 'upgrades' you could ever make.
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Old 08-13-13, 08:25 PM
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Well,
I'm running 48 spoke velocity chukkers with the dreaded marathon plus on the back and marathon on the front... But I'm loving the wheels!
I made a mistake the over day and hopped a curb... Still true! I'm 265 plus pack with tools, and spares...

I think it might be the bearings in the PW hub that makes up the difference.

I hate equipment failures and I hate walking home...
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Old 08-13-13, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Null66
Well,
I'm running 48 spoke velocity chukkers with the dreaded marathon plus on the back and marathon on the front... But I'm loving the wheels!
I made a mistake the over day and hopped a curb... Still true! I'm 265 plus pack with tools, and spares...

I think it might be the bearings in the PW hub that makes up the difference.

I hate equipment failures and I hate walking home...
Nice! Sounds like a reliable wheelset.
My wheels arent light, with rohloff/son28 combo but I acknowledge tyres can make a difference.
I started with Schwalbe Big Apples at 60-622 (700x2.35).
Currently trialing Schwalbe Supremes (50-622 / 700x2.00) and they are much less ponderous and faster accelerating.
I find both much more comfortable than skinnier tyres (for myself).
I'll probably use the Supremes for tarmac touring combined with some 2 inch wide Mondials for any off road extended stretches.
The Big Apples are the best bang for buck being much cheaper than the other two and of similar weight to the Mondials yet with less rolling resistance and albeit less puncture resistance too.
Any trouble with the Dyads longevity and they will be swapped out with Chukkers.
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Old 08-14-13, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by robow
Just suggestions but you could always build a wheelset from Velocity Dyads or even Mavic Open Pro 36h, add some butted spokes and a decent hub, and that won't probably be too far from what weight you're accustomed to riding. Also consider some Vittoria Hyper tires in 32mm, a lightweight but robust tire.
Second the Hypers. I have found there can be a big difference in tire speed that is not particularly sensitive to weight. I have found Conti Sport Contacts and Vittoria Randonneur Hypers particularly fast, as well as being highly resistant to puncture.
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Old 08-14-13, 09:09 AM
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On my two regular bikes; a specialized roubaix with 23mm paselas and my fuji with 32mm paselas (and fenders and a dynamo hub with 32 spoke wheels) I don't experience any real deviations in speed between the two bikes. Over the long term they average to the same speed...

The Fuji is about 60% heavier than the specialized; however, the weight difference with me on the bike is only less than 5%.
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Old 08-14-13, 10:39 AM
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Lucky for me, touring is about just that.... touring, "smelling the roses" and not looking at speed. Thank goodness cause the touring bike is heavy plus the tires are pretty fat.
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Old 08-14-13, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by robow
Just suggestions but you could always build a wheelset from Velocity Dyads or even Mavic Open Pro 36h, add some butted spokes and a decent hub, and that won't probably be too far from what weight you're accustomed to riding. Also consider some Vittoria Hyper tires in 32mm, a lightweight but robust tire.
I tour on Mavic Open Pro 32h with 25mm Ultragatorskins and really notice the difference bewteen them and my city bike that has 32mm Paselas and Phil Wood Hubs, but my rides on the city bike are pretty short and there's not much climbing so it's not such a big deal. However, I'd hate to be loaded down on a bike with heavy wheels and wide tires with a long day of climbing ahead, something lighter makes the hills more fun.
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Old 08-14-13, 11:57 AM
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With cycling it would translate to

1)Strong
2)Light
3)Cheap

Pick any two.
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Old 08-14-13, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Null66
Well,
I'm running 48 spoke velocity chukkers with the dreaded marathon plus on the back and marathon on the front... But I'm loving the wheels!
I made a mistake the over day and hopped a curb... Still true! I'm 265 plus pack with tools, and spares...

I think it might be the bearings in the PW hub that makes up the difference.

I hate equipment failures and I hate walking home...
Yikes, that's a post apocalypse wheel set.
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Old 08-14-13, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Burton
Those tires don't exactly have a terrible reputation so maybe they aren't the issue. You swapped wheelsets and mentioned tires and rims but not hubs. But you did describe 'an old set of DC19s running Pasela 32mm's'.

Maybe the issue is the condition of the bearings, cones and the age if the grease in the hubs? If that's the case addressing that would be one of the cheapest 'upgrades' you could ever make.
I'm curious about this as well. After building a set of 650A wheels and installing the Panaracer Col de la Vies, I was dismayed by how slow and hard to propel the bike was over long distances. One of the factors turned out to be that I'd adjusted the rear hub too tight.

(The bike is a lot better after tweaking my position and shaving off half of the tire tread, but I still reach for my other bike when I want to go fast.)
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Old 08-14-13, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by robow
Just suggestions but you could always build a wheelset from Velocity Dyads or even Mavic Open Pro 36h, add some butted spokes and a decent hub, and that won't probably be too far from what weight you're accustomed to riding. Also consider some Vittoria Hyper tires in 32mm, a lightweight but robust tire.
+1. I use Dyads and Velocity A23 with Vittoria Hypers. I'm only a little slower than when on my 700x24 Conti grand Prix on HED Ardennes rims.
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Old 08-14-13, 09:04 PM
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For those wondering, I calculated the difference between a suspension fork and dynamo hub front wheel. It's 2.8 lbs. (I mean versus rigid fork and regular hub.) Though I'd rather have the comfort of a suspension fork and the light.
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