veganbikes

LOLOLOLOLOLOL! Back in my day we carried all of our stuff uphill both ways in 30 foot snow on fixed gear bicycles with wooden rims and iron frames.

3speed

^ Haha. Have you ridden the Washington peninsula? I'm not sure how it works, but I swear there's a lot more climbing than downhill there. Maybe the "uphill both ways in the snow" thing started in WA.

SparkyGA

Of my base weight, I would say I do a 50/50 balance of my weight using water bottle cages/Salsa Anything Cages/Sweetroll/Handlebar bag on the front and larger panniers on the rear.

However I'm totally loaded with food and water I'm looking at a 40/60 balance (front/rear). Water is carried in a frame bag plus a 3rd bottle cage if needed and most of the food is stored in the rear panniers. Bike handles nicely with this combination on or off road.

jrickards

Although not specifically about weight distribution but rather about packing, there is an interesting article on the Arkel site at: How to Pack. What is most relevant to this thread is about 3/4 of the way down at the heading "General Packing", about left/right packing.

MassiveD

My tech side loves the look of the front and rear distribution of weight in 4-6 bags. The best thing you can do for your weight though is leave as much as possible at home so the bike rides as if you didn't have any panniers. I know you can go cycle camping with 10-20 pounds of base gear and food. At that point it really doesn't mater too much where you put it.

The 60-40 front bias has been dogma for a long time. I have loaded like that plenty, but never really seen the point. The rider is the largest variable. You have guys out there touring at a body weight of 350 (sometimes because they have a body weight of 350). That pretty much overwhelms any distribution of weight issues. I toured once at 275, with about 10 pounds a bag, and the bags (that weigh almost as much rack included). That was probably around a 50/50 distribution, but with like 220 resting on the post over the rear tire, the distribution of the gear is the least of my worries. My main reason to put weight forward is to unload the rear tire for structural reasons.

My overall take-away, is:

1) For and aft weight distribution is a minor issue. In small boats we trim them level. If you have access to two bathroom type scales (or one with a block of wood for the other tire), knowing your distribution would be interesting, and something to manage to keep the wheels turning, particularly if you have a high body weight number. If you have 160 to 300 resting on the back wheel you need to have a very solidly overbuilt rear wheel.

2) Perfectly balancing left right weight, particularly up front, seems to correlate with shimmy. I normally weigh and distribute carefully when I pack for a trip. And there is often shimmy. As I add stuff like evening food, or rummage around, the bike gets less balanced left/right, and it handles better. What I don' t know is whether that is in the hands, or in the distribution. Never done a test that would indicate whether I grip the bike more effectively over time, or whether the balance is what is reducing shimmy.

3) Low center of gravity improves handling;

4) Lowering the overall weight is the best thing you can do for your carry issues. Most efficient approach is to minimize the number of panniers, this applies to bike packing or rack packing. Most efficient gear up is a light backpack on a rear rack. If you pack correctly there is almost no way to get to a front rack. I haven't tried the UL approach and a front rack. At my size, getting to a 50/50 wheel weighting would be huge. Keys there are forward weighting, really long chainstays, and no stupid offset seatposts, but you need to go custom to get there. A side benefit of less stuff and fewer bags may be better organization with less searching.

5) I dislike implying that something is just an industry scam, but the 60/40 stuff accompanied the development of the front rack, and a ton of money has been made through that addition. At that time, the really lightweight guys were the cyclists. Backpacking was external frames, and 70 pound loads. And of course in backpacking you are off the beaten track in some areas, with little chance of food resupply. If a company had an ultralight tent it the cyclist version. Backpacking was headed in the direction of heavier fabrics, heavier bags and clothes (cordura and pile and polarguard), and heavier freestanding tents. Since then, cycling has become the pig sport, and backpacking has gone all ultralight. During that period the world is more built up, so if anything, cycling has more resupply options, not less.

3speed

^ I would run just front panniers before running just rears. At least for me, and others from what I've read, the bike handles better that way. And my last choice for loading the bike is to put things on top of a rack. I have to disagree with your statement that just a lightweight backpack on the rear rack is the best route. I'd go with some really light panniers on the front if possible(1lb Arkel Dry-Lights or similar). The front wheel is also stronger, so it makes sense to me to load the front first, and even more so considering my weight is already more on the rear wheel.

irwin7638

Yeah, what he said!

mdilthey

In November of last year, I rode the front range of the Rockies. I had two rear panniers, a frame bag, and a drybag strapped to a front rack. I also brought a backpack (mostly because I liked the backpack) and ended up strapping it to the rear rack, which worked in theory but was messy in practice.

Here's the setup:



That didn't work. I was heading East on a 96-miles-with-no-services highway during a windstorm. The tailwinds were absolutely mind-blowing; I was coasting at 25, downhilling at 40. The road was clear and open, so I pushed my speed. Some tumbleweeds hid a pothole until it was too late, and I hit an asphalt chunk the size of a dictionary, fish-tailed due to rear weight, and slammed the bike after 5-6 wobbles. Lost a front wheel and a LOT of skin; I was bleeding for three days. I had to ride 90 miles on a severely untrued wheel to get to a train station so I could take a 3-day train home.

Not a good experience. I decided to take weight balancing seriously.

This was the "improvement" to that setup for 2014:



This rides much smoother, almost like an auto-pilot. The weight is basically the same as before, minus a few items. The capacity is slightly dropped. However, with a large sleeping bag in a drybag strapped to the front rack or a handlebar sheath, I can keep my panniers free for clothes, sundries, food, etc.

I also have a "Fully Loaded" setup with a similar 60/40 weight distribution as others have mentioned, which I said I'd use for Kelley, my girlfriend, to tour with me. This has been scrapped, since Kelley is tough enough to go "ultralight" right alongside me and she carries her own gear.



Of course, my first tour (1,500 miles, unsupported, and camping) was my best setup...



It doesn't really matter where you carry it if it's only 8 pounds. Today, I usually tour with a computer to run my website and work remotely, and all the setups listed above were for 3 season/winter conditions, so I had much more stuff... but there's a simple luxury in carrying only the bare necessities and riding an essentially unloaded bicycle.

burtsbees

Mdilthey, is that an Old Man Mountain front rack? I'm debating between that and the Tubus Nova. The OMM resembles a rear rack but up front, whereas the Nova has the loop. Wonder which is stronger.

djb

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veganbikes

"i don't like spaaaaam"

Tourist in MSN

I do not know if he is going to respond to your question or not, I am guessing it is a RackTime TopIt.

Nova looks nice but I am happy with my Ergo.

burtsbees

I looked up RackTime and it sure looks like it. I wanted to get the Nova, but according to the specs, the distance between the mid and end fork eyelets has to be around 165mm, otherwise the rack won't be level. Mine is 175. Ugh...

Regarding a handlebar bag, this summer was the first tour (after about 15) I used one, and the convenience of it made me wonder why I didn't use one before.

mdilthey

Racktime! You got it! Good rack, not the lightest but a good balance between durability and cost. It sits squarely between Tubus and Blackburn when it comes to price.