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Today's dog incident

Old 02-22-15, 07:55 PM
  #1  
Tandem Tom
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Today's dog incident

So yesterday I posted about agas canister that got punctured. Today while we were ridi

ng, presently touring in Florida, a dog came after us. The owner called it back and it partially obey. Then it came after us again but an oncoming car got it! Felt bad but we were way up the road and it being a rurual area I just didn't want to stick around too long.
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Old 02-22-15, 09:11 PM
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Don't feel bad, wasn't your fault...
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Old 02-22-15, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tandem Tom View Post
So yesterday I posted about agas canister that got punctured. Today while we were ridi

ng, presently touring in Florida, a dog came after us. The owner called it back and it partially obey. Then it came after us again but an oncoming car got it! Felt bad but we were way up the road and it being a rurual area I just didn't want to stick around too long.

It is freakin' stupid when people decide to not use a leash when walking a dog in a non-fenced area. I always love when they say "my dog wouldn't run away" as if they have some magical powers to recall the dog in any situation.

Also just FYI dogs are not "it"s an "it" is something that is non-living a dog is someone who is living (or was living at one point).
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Old 02-23-15, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
It is freakin' stupid when people decide to not use a leash when walking a dog in a non-fenced area. I always love when they say "my dog wouldn't run away" as if they have some magical powers to recall the dog in any situation.
Or how about, "Gee, officer, my dog never did that before..."
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Old 02-23-15, 08:29 AM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
wasn't your fault...
+1.

Something similar happened during my x-country group tour while riding in Alberta. Farm dog chased one of the participants and ended getting hit and killed. Sad, but not the rider's fault.
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Old 02-23-15, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
....
Also just FYI dogs are not "it"s an "it" is something that is non-living a dog is someone who is living (or was living at one point).
An animal is correctly mentioned as "it" . Only humans are mentioned as he or she. Accordingly an animal is not "someone" but something.

The he and she about animals is incorrect language that is used by people who humanise their animals.
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Old 02-23-15, 01:24 PM
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I worked for Fed Ex Freight for six and a half years. I can't tell you how many times someone told me "Don't worry, he won't bite" I got bit twice. Each time the owner said the same thing. "I just don't understand why he did that" DUH --- I'm not the one that feeds him.
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Old 02-23-15, 02:35 PM
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1 car stopped at the cross walk. 2nd car rear ended them going too fast on a wet road ...

Generally same thing , Faultless, nothing for me to do, So I just continued across the crosswalk and let them sort out the claims info for their Insurance companies.
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Old 02-23-15, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jargo432 View Post
I worked for Fed Ex Freight for six and a half years. I can't tell you how many times someone told me "Don't worry, he won't bite" I got bit twice. Each time the owner said the same thing. "I just don't understand why he did that" DUH --- I'm not the one that feeds him.
My sister has driven for FedEx for decades. She IS the one who feeds the dogs; she carries dog treats on her rural routes so the dogs tend to not bite her. I'm not sure such a technique would work for cycle tourists.
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Old 02-23-15, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
1 car stopped at the cross walk. 2nd car rear ended them going too fast on a wet road ...

Generally same thing , Faultless, nothing for me to do, So I just continued across the crosswalk and let them sort out the claims info for their Insurance companies.
Well I think I would have left my phone # with the rear-ended driver, as a witness can be handy in an accident, as stories of how things happened can change sometimes... JMO As for the dog I wouldn't have even slowed down...

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Old 02-23-15, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pbekkerh View Post
An animal is correctly mentioned as "it" . Only humans are mentioned as he or she. Accordingly an animal is not "someone" but something.

The he and she about animals is incorrect language that is used by people who humanise their animals.
That is actually incorrect. Gender is not a human centric idea. Also a thing is a material object without life or consciousness. I would hardly call a living dog or anyone living, what amounts to, an inanimate object.

If non-human animals were non-living then yes calling them "things" and "it"s would make sense, tons of it however that is not the case. We are all part of kingdom animalia so I don't understand why we would call one part of kingdom animalia he/she/they... and another it? It is not like humans are that radically different biologically than other animals in the "kingdom". Some minor differences but keep in mind we didn't magically just appear on this planet we evolved over time.
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Old 02-23-15, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jargo432 View Post
I worked for Fed Ex Freight for six and a half years. I can't tell you how many times someone told me "Don't worry, he won't bite" I got bit twice. Each time the owner said the same thing. "I just don't understand why he did that" DUH --- I'm not the one that feeds him.
Peter Sellers is a genius (the end is where the important quote is)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o
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Old 02-23-15, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
That is actually incorrect. Gender is not a human centric idea. Also a thing is a material object without life or consciousness. I would hardly call a living dog or anyone living, what amounts to, an inanimate object.

If non-human animals were non-living then yes calling them "things" and "it"s would make sense, tons of it however that is not the case. We are all part of kingdom animalia so I don't understand why we would call one part of kingdom animalia he/she/they... and another it? It is not like humans are that radically different biologically than other animals in the "kingdom". Some minor differences but keep in mind we didn't magically just appear on this planet we evolved over time.
No, an animal is an "it" or male or female animal, or a "stallion/mare", not he or she... As I understand it... Only humans are correctly called he or she.

EDIT; Oh, I also know people who call their dogs their "babies" no... incorrect/impossible even...

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Old 02-23-15, 06:28 PM
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heck, next time just toss him, her or it one of your aluminum propane camp containers, one chomp and BLAMMO it'll be like the shark at the end of Jaws.....
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Old 02-23-15, 08:09 PM
  #15  
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That is what I hate most about a dog chasing me, looking in my mirror and watching a vehicle hit it if it enters the road; gives me cold chills and bad day dreams the rest of the day.
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Old 02-24-15, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
No, an animal is an "it" or male or female animal, or a "stallion/mare", not he or she... As I understand it... Only humans are correctly called he or she.
I was curious so I looked in a few dictionaries. It seems that either "it" or "he/she" are correctly used for animals in the dictionaries that I checked. On the other hand Veganbikes use of "someone" is incorrect. "Someone" refers only to a person and a person by definition is a human individual.
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Old 02-24-15, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
I was curious so I looked in a few dictionaries. It seems that either "it" or "he/she" are correctly used for animals in the dictionaries that I checked. On the other hand Veganbikes use of "someone" is incorrect. "Someone" refers only to a person and a person by definition is a human individual.
Yes, it has "become" correct, but it's not proper English, A dog is a male animal decended from a wolf, a b**** is a female animal decended from a wolf... See, even the censers won't let me call the animal by it's right name...
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Old 02-24-15, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
I was curious so I looked in a few dictionaries. It seems that either "it" or "he/she" are correctly used for animals in the dictionaries that I checked. On the other hand Veganbikes use of "someone" is incorrect. "Someone" refers only to a person and a person by definition is a human individual.
Language changes over time, always has. The "correct" form is just a snapshot of what has gone before, and what some people sat down and decided was canonical based on that. But people change language, it's not static. In recent years, there has been a trend to see animals not just as things, but as living beings worthy of respect and consideration. To people who feel thus, referring to any animal as "it" just doesn't feel right. They are "he" or "she", and I see no problem with "someone" either. This doesn't mean we are anthropomorphizing (i.e. attempting to treat the animal as human), or calling them "our babies" or whatever; we are simply recognizing something vital and fundamental.

I guess there will always be people who see animals as being something less than humans, but I'm just explaining the mindset that objects to animals being referred to as "it" - we are all animals, equally worthy of respect. Of course that view understandably raises all sorts of mental discord if you've been brought up to think that it's ok to eat animals and treat them as things to be used for our convenience and pleasure; if we saw them as anything more, then we wouldn't feel as free to casually abuse them in the ways that we do. So the current status quo kind of makes sense, in that context - but I see it as speciesism, in the same way that looking down on some other race of humans (which was once completely socially accepted - see slavery) is now seen as racism. They are both coming from the same place, really.

Some current books that go into this in much more detail than I can here, for anyone interested:

Wild Justice: The Moral Lives of Animals
The Animal Manifesto: Six Reasons for Expanding Our Compassion Footprint
Animal Wise: How We Know Animals Think and Feel
The Emotional Lives of Animals: A Leading Scientist Explores Animal Joy, Sorrow, and Empathy — and Why They Matter
The Dreaded Comparison: Human and Animal Slavery

Neil

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Old 02-24-15, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NeilGunton View Post
Language changes over time, always has. The "correct" form is just a snapshot of what has gone before, and what some people sat down and decided was canonical based on that. But people change language, it's not static. In recent years, there has been a trend to see animals not just as things, but as living beings worthy of respect and consideration. To people who feel thus, referring to any animal as "it" just doesn't feel right. They are "he" or "she", and I see no problem with "someone" either. This doesn't mean we are anthropomorphizing (i.e. attempting to treat the animal as human), or calling them "our babies" or whatever; we are simply recognizing something vital and fundamental.

I guess there will always be people who see animals as being something less than humans, but I'm just explaining the mindset that objects to animals being referred to as "it" - we are all animals, equally worthy of respect. Of course that view understandably raises all sorts of mental discord if you've been brought up to think that it's ok to eat animals and treat them as things to be used for our convenience and pleasure; if we saw them as anything more, then we wouldn't feel as free to casually abuse them in the ways that we do. So the current status quo kind of makes sense, in that context - but I see it as speciesism, in the same way that looking down on some other race of humans (which was once completely socially accepted - see slavery) is now seen as racism. They are both coming from the same place, really.

Some current books that go into this in much more detail than I can here, for anyone interested:

https://amzn.com/0226041638
The Animal Manifesto: Six Reasons for Expanding Our Compassion Footprint: Ph.D. Marc Bekoff: 9781577316497: Amazon.com: Books
Animal Wise: How We Know Animals Think and Feel: Virginia Morell: 9780307461452: Amazon.com: Books
https://amzn.com/1577316290

Neil
I prefer to stay in the shallow end of the pool. I don't care what you call it, I just don't want to get bit by it.
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Old 02-24-15, 01:31 PM
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I'm with you there.

I've never been bitten while on a bike but clearly remember the sound of a pit bulls nails doing a cartoon burnout on the pavement as the little ********* tried his/her/it's damnedest to take a chunk out of my lower right leg.
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Old 02-24-15, 01:58 PM
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Nobody likes being attacked. I favor a good strong pepper spray - stops the attack, makes Cujo think twice about chasing in future (safer for everybody), and no lasting damage:

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/DealingWithDogs

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Old 02-24-15, 02:10 PM
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I've hit dogs three times. Crashed every time. I have also brushed a dog off into a telephone pole. (That did cure his chasing of all bikes, not just me.) I don't blame the dogs as much as the owners. Now, if the owners got to feel say the 18 months of bursitis I lived through after my last dog crash, maybe they would change their ways.

When I am trying to out-sprint a dog, I have no feelings for that dog at all. It's my skin I am trying to save. If that dog comes to an unhappy ending, there will almost certainly be another cyclist who gets to benefit.

Dogs (for the most part) belong to owners. Dogs owned by responsible owners are not the problem.

And a fun story on the flip side. When I was 25 yo, a bike racer, mid-season and in form, I was starting down a fairly long hill when I passed the walk in front of a house with a large yard. As I crossed the walk I saw the dog on the front step as he saw me. I poured it on. Looked back as I hit the corner of the yard. That dog was three steps back! As I hit my max, he came alongside and paced me down the hill. Never came forward of my BB, no barking, no growl, just an easy run beside me. Hill leveled out, I slowed, he turned around and trotted home. Job done.

I was truly humbled. We both knew that if there was a finish line, he had me easily. But he did not have to do anything threatening to prove that point. He was just being a whippet, the coolest (and fastest) animal on the planet.

Ben
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Old 02-24-15, 02:21 PM
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We should be grateful we don't have these guys after us:

Built for speed ? Six Incredible Things Before Breakfast
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Old 02-24-15, 03:49 PM
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Why have a screen name of Veganbikes if you don't realize your perception of animals is different than that of others, what would be the fun?

The idea of dogs chasing one out into the road and then getting killed by other vehicles being the fault of their owners is incomplete. It is true that cyclists are at times models of excess caution (helmets, cotton avoidance), but the world does not revolve around us, and if we choose rural routes where clearly the same dog was not killed on any other day of it's life by charging a cyclists, it may be that our presence is so unusual that the owners would not have rationally factored us in. It can't do much for our reputation if the result of our passing is the death of a prized and probably loved animal. And then we just drive off. On the other hand I know of at least one case where a hiker was forced to shoot a dog owner because the owner tried to kill the hiker who had drawn out his dogs. So hanging around may not be a great idea either. Having hit a large dog when it simply trotted across the road in front of my Ford ranger, it got under the front of the car, and I ended up in the ditch. I didn't steer myself there. So there is that risk also. Not to mention several thousand dollars of property damage to the dog and the vehicle. We have the right to the use of the road, and I don't see a particular solution to this problem.
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Old 02-24-15, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
.When I am trying to out-sprint a dog, I have no feelings for that dog at all. It's my skin I am trying to save. If that dog comes to an unhappy ending, there will almost certainly be another cyclist who gets to benefit.

Dogs (for the most part) belong to owners. Dogs owned by responsible owners are not the problem.
The onus is on the dog owner, but responsible behaviour is going to come down to some standard like a reasonable "man" standard. If no crazy geeks in day-glow lycra normally troll their property line, who is to say they are being irresponsible. People in the country may want their dogs to keep intruders off the property. I have one acquaintance (same guy whose poly pro got melted on him), whose neighbours were murdered by a serial killer in Montana. So for them rare cyclists, rare serial killers, good dog, kind of deal.

Outrunning dogs doesn't work with touring gear. I remember discovering that to my distress. Well it doesn't work for me... But I feel fairly certain I can place kick a whippet into the back 40. Just prey you don't irritate an Irish wolf hound. I always have a plan on how to kill any dog I meet. I'm not a deer, I don't fear dogs. What ticks me off is the energy they take from me. Anything over two dogs does start to look a little iffy.
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