jrockey2

Hello All,
I am looking to purchase my first track bike and I was wondering if I could get some advise on what frame size would be best. I am currently looking at a 55cm square NJS frame. I am 182cm tall (roughly 6 feet), with an inseam of 84cm. I also will be using a 100-110 mm stem. I intend to use this bike mainly on the roads, but I also want to use it on the track. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on what size will be perfect for me.

Baby Puke

That 55 is gonna be far too small for you. A human of your height would probably be looking for a top tube between 57-61 cm, depending upon your other dimensions.

Clythio

1,83m heavy chassis 90kg, tried 56 frames when got back to track cycling in 2017 (even tried 54 frames, on the old trend of short, fast-reaction bikes), but for sprint activities, with currently the used higher hands position and smaller width handlebars, I've later switched to 58 XL (Fuji Track Elite) and won't look back in terms of control, power transfer etc. And I'm with a 130mm stem.
So, if you intend to spend some time on real tracks, go for something at least 56 or above.

m@tty

I am 178cm with 82cm inseam and ride a 55 top tube frame with a 120mm stem and my bars have an 80mm reach I use the frame for endurance mass start and pursuit so it’s a bit of a compromise and I’m considering trying a 130mm stem.
my guess is that the frame you are looking at would be on the small side unless you have arms like a T-Rex?

2500W

French sprinters such as Gregory Bauge (181cm) and Quentin Lafargue (183cm), generally do well on frames of size M. The older model L96 had a reach/stack 405mm/559mm. Current frames Look R96 & T20 of size M have reach/stack 427mm/520mm. Only Quentin Caleyron (188cm) was seen mounted on Look's largest frame.

Here is Lafargue on L96 (the referent measures are the wheel diameter, an average of 676mm; and the closest possible front-centre of 583mm):

carleton

Giddeon Massie also rode a LOOK 496 in his prime:



...it was still too small for him. I think he made it work because he seems to have longer legs and a shorter torso instead of a 50/50 build. So, he just jacked up the seat post and moved his saddle back to make space for his legs.

When he returned to track cycling a couple of years ago, he was on a 60cm Felt TK-FRD that fit him a lot better. I know because I spotted the size sticker on his frame from one of his social media posts.

Part of the problem with top riders riding small frames is that that's what bike manufacturers made. When the British made their own frames, Hoy (6' 1"/185cm) rode maybe a 60cm top tube (give or take):



I imagine that this proved to be more aerodynamic with the arms acting as a ramp for the air.

carleton

Also, when Hoy started his bike company, his top entry/mid level "Fiorenzuola" frame came in size 60 or 61. Soon after, Felt offered the TK-FRD in 60cm.

I think manufacturers caught on.

carleton

Here's one of Hoy's early UKSI bikes.



Look at the reach on those bars...trying to stretch out to get the body in the correct position.

2500W

Lutz Hesslich, his son and his winning Textima of 1980s. He once rode a match sprint in 9.98 s. Some interesting geometry numbers I extracted include a 439mm reach at a 554mm stack and a 608 mm front-centre, i.e. pretty longer than traditional Italian-Japanese geometry. Now, Lutz only expressed regret for "completely nonsensical gears, with a cadence of up to 170rpm" they use in 80s (an article in German >>).

I am very impressed by new track geometry consistently presented by Look, Koga, BT, and Argon 18, especially in their elite models. I was eager to buy an aluminium frameset that resembles this geometry such as Fuji Elite (cons., complete bike only), Thunderdome (complete, currently not available in Europe), or Jorbi Omnium Al (they did not respond, now doubled the price, and no info on loading it with a 117-kg rider).

However, Hesslich was in his prime until the age of 28; and Hoy -- until 36. I am 56-57 yo enthusiast and probably most of us in this forum are well over 36 yo. I started to ride regularly in mid 2017. Last year I injured my lower back after adding 92mm handlebar reach plus 140mm quill-stem to the 411mm frame reach. So IMO old guys should stretch their bikes and themselves very carefully. And please do not spurt against the wind and handle the drops simultaneously.

DMC707

definitely do not want to be spurting against the wind!

carleton

As we age, the cadences that we can maintain drop off significantly...but our strength doesn't fall at the same rate. Bigger gears (along with other factors like training regimes) may explain why pro trackies can stay on top of the sport well into their 30s.

2500W

Gears and cadence cannot predict the career span of a sprinter. Hesslich taken his first medal of Worlds at age of 18; and his last at age of 28. His closest teammate -- Huebner -- was just of a different breed. He reached the world podium first at age of 24 and last at age of 37. Huebner probably used similar gears (I estimated 50/14 in a certain event).

brian44

FWIW, I was (am) a roadie with reasonable flexibility transitioning to the track and I was advised to size up through these forums. I generally ride a 56cm TT on the road with a 120mm stem (I am 183cm in height), but my track rig has a 58cm TT with a 130mm stem (and am considering 140) and fits well. There are times when I wish I had a little bit more reach. The point is...abandon the conventions of "road" sizing and perhaps go 2cm longer if using TT as a reference point. This is a very simplistic approach, but it helped me in the road to track bike fit process. See shameless bike photo op below:

Bisexcycle

how high is your reach? I know theres more variables but how many cm of spacers and what degree 130 stem do you use? I'm around same size and am working on my bike fit and have noticed the modern set up is high. So I'm not sure if you should go lower or not. My 120stem feels too short though on my 58 jamis sonik. I find the longer reach helps me stabalize more since I'm bad at handling anyway.

brian44

The HT is pretty short (12.5 cm) relative to the frame size, and I'm running about 10mm of spacers. The 130mm stem is a -10. It's as low as I want to go. Regardless, the setup is slightly different now with a 140mm stem (-6), and the bar's reach is a little longer.




I was going to try 150mm out, but I have a set of Velobike Bunch Bars that have a longer reach. We'll see how that works out. FWIW I do sprint and mass start events, so I need a middle ground without switching out equipment all day. Judging by the photo below...I have plenty of drop, but I still *feel* scrunched up. I could probably go with a larger frame, but this is an XL...most (not all) frames (e.g., Argon 18 Electron Pro) top out with the same geometry figures. I used the Argon 18 as an example because I was very close to picking one up, but the fit would've been a wash. Finally, the obvious...I need to get my head down.