validname

Can someone share some experience with track frames for tall riders?

I'm about to get a new frame because my old one made of Columbus steel is not stiff enough. My size is 196 cm (6' 5") with a weight of 92 kg (202lb) and I'm looking for a 60 frame.

My road bike is made of aluminum but I was also looking into fiber and titanium. I don't have any experience with either one of them and there are so many different opinion about it. A good friend recommamd Demon Frameworks from England. I really like the work from what I saw. He's using Reynolds 853 but the price is even more than a titanium frame! So I'm quite unsure.

Looking forward for any feedback or experience!

mcafiero

I've got a Dolan DF3 and it's plenty stiff. Also consider Tiemeyer.

carleton

Titanium isn't worth it. And it's not stiffer than aluminum.

Get *quality* carbon or aluminum for stiffness.

I think the Felt TK2 comes in 60cm. It's a great mid-level complete bike (among others). Just swap the bars out for standard road bars or track sprint bars.

validname

Thanks for the reply! I was already looking into Dolan frames I really like the Seta frame. May I ask how much your weight is?

carleton

Dolans are nice. I weigh 240lbs (108kg) or less and my DF3 held up fine.

Some of the budget carbon frames will flex under a heavy rider who may make more torque than a smaller rider. That is why I suggested quality carbon.

validname

Thanks for the advice! So you would prefer carbon over aluminum?

carleton

Honestly, they are about the same. Fit and angles are more important than the difference between carbon and aluminum.

My aluminum Tiemeyer was slightly stiffer than my Dolan. My aluminum Tiemeyer was 3lbs lighter than my Felt TK1. But the carbon bikes absorbed bumps and vibrations better. So, there are pros and cons, but no clear advantage in terms of performance.

So, in short, they are really interchangeable. I just wouldn't consider steel, that's all.

The best bang for the buck is with aluminum, hands-down.

carleton

If you are looking to get faster on the track, there are several ways to improve. The frame is one of the least of them.

See my post here: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post14849124

But, if you want a carbon bike because you like it, then there's no harm in that either. This is our hobby. What's wrong with having nice things?

I have both carbon and aluminum track frames.

JMR

Ask this guy!

brawlo

https://alienbikes.com/v3/

You could look at these. I'm 6'5" and I have 2. The first which is the one I'm still riding was an early incarnation of their development. It's a bit sloppy in the front, but the second frame I have has 50% thicker top and downtubes and should have a much more stable front end, but I've been really slack and haven't cut it down yet so can't fully comment just yet. We start our racing season next week, so I'm going to do it this weekend. So I could get back to you in a week or so.

Interestingly, the guy who developed them is REALLY finnicky and actually raced the world masters on his older aluminium bike. He just has not been happy with the carbon steerer forks. So from that, you could consider aluminium custom, or look at those frames. My previous bike was a Cinelli frame. Same geometry as but prior to Vigorelli. The frame I'm using is still stiffer than the Cinelli when you're up in the pedals stamping it down.

I'm looking forward to trying out the revised frame and I have a set of rock solid but heavy forks to try with it as well if I find I don't quite like the fork that comes with it.

I know from personal experience that you have few options. You can look at the alien, which was always going to be a big carbon frame that was not ridiculously expensive, or you can go custom. If you do go for custom, make sure you do your builder research.

Or of course being German, perhaps you could come across one of Carsten Bergemann's old FES frames. That would be perfectly nice!

carleton

I know the guy that runs this. He's a nice guy. He races track, too. He's also a fellow "big guy" so I'm sure that he makes sure that his bikes can handle it.

brawlo

It was an interesting experience following the development with the frame. He really doesn't like average, and that's certainly a good thing. Yes, very nice guy.

validname

Alien Bikes look very interesting! I was trying to get in contact with him but both of the email adresses aren't working. Is he still around?

carleton

I just emailed him. I'll let you know when he replies.

carleton

He just replied to me that he's having email issues for which he apologizes. And that "the V3 is still in development and has a few issues to be worked out. Mainly the seat clamp needs to be beefed up."

validname

Thanks man you seem like a cool guy! I'm not in a hurry to get a new frame so I can wait till the V3 is ready. You think you can pm me his email adress so I can get in touch with him? Or I can give you mine

Dalai

Any photos of your bikes?

brawlo

Here's a pic from a while ago. If I pull the finger out this weekend I'll post the new sprint style setup.

bigfred 

I'm also 195cm/6'5" and have been going through the same search as track season just started here in the Southern Hemi. The largest of the commercially available frames I could find was Specialized's Langster Pro in a "61cm" That's actual to the top of the seat tube. It's also got one of the longer head tubes and front centers. If ordered as a frame set they come with an uncut steerer that apparently extends approx. 80mm above the headtube. If purchased as a complete bike the steering tube is cut to headtube + 40mm. But, there won't be any framesets in their NA system until December.

Ridley used to make traditional style Oval frames up to a 66cm I believe. But, I'm not certain if they still do and we don't have a distributor here that I'm aware of.

Both of the above are aluminum.

brawlo

Those Langsters only go to a 585mm TT and the Ridleys to 590mm.

I would say keep a good eye on your top tube lengths. Not so sure about rest of the world, but anything above club racing here is subjected to UCI rules. I started out on a 58cm TT Cinelli and I just couldn't stretch out enough within the parameters of the rules. In the end it was a longer TT or nothing. I had almost settled on going custom aluminium until I heard of the Alien frame development. I prefer sprinting and I had given my Cinelli skid marks within the chainstays from flex. The prospect of a larger stock frame meant most likely more flex from the larger dimensions as they're primarily built as a points racer style of bike, not a sprinter.

If you're not sprint orientated, then I might suggest the Felts as they go up to 607mm TT length. If you like to sprint, then go custom aluminium or look for something carbon like the Alien or even Serenity (60cm TT but for a significantly higher price).

As it is, my fitted sprint setup on the 61cm TT Alien is with the stem 25mm lower and a 20mm longer stem (140mm) than in the pic. It fits like a glove and I have longer legs as opposed to a long torso.

bigfred 

It was my understanding that the measurement on drop bars was from the front wheel axle. Is that not correct? If so, the front centers between the Langsters and the Felt are within 3mm of each other. Or, am I misinterpretting this?

Thankfully my torso isn't very long. So, my challenge is mostly just saddle height. And, I don't have a sprint, so if I'm going to be successful at this its going to be pursuiting and enduro events.

However, for the price, the Alien looks very interesting. I'll be interested to hear your reports on the new frame. Keep us posted. Thanks,

brawlo

The bars are allowed to extend 50mm in front of the front axle at their most forward point. For sprint events, this is allowed to extend to 100mm. For me, I needed a 170mm stem to take advantage of the extra room allowed, but I would be constantly changing back and forth between the setups. not to mention 170mm stems are pretty hard to come by. Of course you are controlled by your own physical dimensions, so go for whatever TT fits the motor. I'm just saying that for me at the same height as the OP and with relatively long legs, I really make use of the extra TT length from the bigger frame.

As for the bikes, the new frame is cut up now and should be assembled tomorrow. First hitout should be training on Monday.

validname

Hey Carlton you think you can give me his email adress so I can get in touch with him?

brawlo

After a session of standing starts yesterday, I can say the newer frame I have is WAY stiffer in the front than the old one. It's a lot more responsive in the steering and a real pleasure to ride. I've seen pics of the frame with a curve in the seat post just above the BB. Guessing these are a newer revision on the design, so it's evolving and therefore can only get better. It's a testament to the guy's commitment to the design of the frame as he's really designing the frame for himself. Rest assured he won't stop until it's the meanest carbon track frame for the money.

validname

Sounds good! That's what I'm looking for! Can't wait to order mine