DMC707

No --- a bike like that is not going to slow you down on the track - (if it fits you)

-- unless you are Garth Blackburn or Jeff LaBauve coming out of retirement -- even still, -- the frame wont hold you back much with proper fit and wheel selection

I may be a tad biased because this is my current track scoot ---- lugged steel and under 16 pounds ready to rip --- Its a great all purpose track machine still --- and yes, the quill stem and steel frame look dated . but this guy has personality!

If i muster up a genuine campaign towards going to Masters Worlds one year soon, i will be upgrading to something carbon and hideously expensive , -- but until i can give the program some laser beam singular minded focus, i am more than happy to ride this, a bike i bought new in 2000

Shoot , even a used NJS frame would be a darn nice all purpose track bike, but you do have to watch the wheel spacing and other things on those



I am not a "retro-grouch" either, - my road bike is full carbon and 11 speed and the mountain bike is a fairly trick , but aging, Santa Cruz Superlight --- my bike dollars are soon going to go towards replacing the 6 year old Santa Cruz with a new Yeti 27.5 .

I am not afraid of throwing money at problems until they go away - LOL -- so if i thought for a second my Waterford was a liability for me on the track, it would have been replaced long ago


Happy hunting ! ---- steel bikes are fun !

Quinn8it

^^^^
i totally agree!

i ride the Dolan DF3- mostly because it's about as good a fit as I can get without going custom.
Mine actually weighs in at mid-17lbs... So heavier than your Steel.. Although I do insist on riding a boat anchor saddle..

Ive be said it before- if an EAI Bareknuckle fit me I'd just go that route..

carleton

Steel isn't out of the question for me. My #1 gripe has been the short dropouts. I've just never seen long-ish dropouts on steel frames.

Weight isn't an issue. My Felt TK1 was 20 lbs in full race kit:



I hear that BTs can be heavier.

Giacomo 1 

That's a gorgeous bike Carleton.

It definitely gives off a different vibe than a steel frame. My guess is it might be quite a transition to go from that Felt to a steely. And I agree, weight is not the most important factor...

Giacomo 1 

It certainly does have personality.

Steel does have a timeless look to it, and IMHO, they never go out of style. They look like a bike should.

Take the Waterford! Win with that, and it's curtains for CF!






The hunt is half the fun!

DMC707

LOL -- the Dolan DF-3 is the carbon "superbike" I had in mind to build up for my next run to glory - I pay attention to what the heavy hitters use when they are stuck buying their own equipment and I couldn't help but notice Sky Christopherson running a Dolan also at his last run for the checkers as a MAsters age rider (just barely though -- I think Masters racing should start at age 40 myself , but that another story ) ---



-- Note the saddle on my bike is also a boat anchor too -- albeit the Ti railed version ----- but with the price the fixie crowd is paying for Turbo saddles -- geez, almost makes me hesitant to use it .
That said, even my current carbon Cannondale Synapse runs a Turbo saddle because I can hardly stand the shape of any other -- LOL
That darn thing was light light until I started adding my comfort oriented accoutrements (46c Nitto bars and a Turbo seat look odd on a modern road bike - -- but I gotta sit there )

DMC707

Thanks ! ---- My bike is light, but it has a darn spindly build compared to most sprint machines ---- it does flex , but the flex develops a rhythm that seems to work with you rather than against you at times -- almost like a wind up (that's a poor analogy , but the only one I can think of) --
I am not surprised the big boy sprint machines like Carleton's Felt are heavier --- they have to have more material to handle the stress of 200+ # guys hitting a 45 degree track --- plus full discs and deep dish front wheels are heavy as well

I have had younger guys ask me if my bike was from the 70's - LOL ( Paramount was renamed Waterford in maybe 94 or 95 IIRC) - they are shocked it is as "new" as it is

Quinn8it

yeh- my brand new CAAD10/sram red has a steel railed Regal, with copper rivets and "Rino" leather...

The ass likes what the ass likes

Giacomo 1 

I agree, when tromping on a good steel frame, the flex can be rhythmic. The trick is to find that rhythm and stay in it.

Besides, a little flex makes me "feel" fast!



I'm sure there are plenty of younger riders out there that have never had the good fortune of riding steel and wouldn't dream of trying it either.

chas58

Idunno. I found steel sapped my power. Any time I had to jump or accelerate hard it was just hard to keep it going. With a stiff modern track bike I could accelerate and keep riding. Handling was a lot sharper and easier too.

But, it did take me a year or two of dedicated track riding to get to the point where it made much of a difference.

carleton

I agree. I believe it was Ryan Bayley (AUS Olympic Champ & World Champ sprinter) who wrote on FGF that sometimes carbon can also sap your power the same way. Further, he wrote that Aluminum could be a better choice than carbon for this reason.

Carbon isn't always better. All carbon isn't the same.

Many classic steel frames are just too noodly for modern sprinting. It's all relative to the rider, of course. Basically, if you can feel it flex, it's time to get something stiffer. Would you ever ride flexy cranks or pedals with flexy spindles?

Quinn8it

there are a bunch of guys that rode 10" 200's on them...

chas58

Well, carleton puts down more torque than I do. Still, put any bike nose first into a wall and torque the pedals. The bike frame will twist (probably the crank arms too). Its just a matter of how much it will twist.

But, if you are on a softer bike, and having difficulties doing a lot of jumps, a stiffer frame will make a difference. If you are floating back and forth in a pack just waiting for that final sprint to the finish line, not so much.

Baby Puke

Anybody have any experience with these?
Kilo / Pursuit Bicycle Frame

I keep coming back to this, and drooling. I think I saw one at Masters Nationals in T-town (2011) but didn't get to talk to the guy. They are apparently made of steel...

Dalai

Not UCI legal with the GT style seat stay / seat tube / top tube triangle?

carleton

Yeah, back when the standard was 165mm cranks for people 6ft tall and cadences were in the 160s.

Ask them if they'd ride those bikes today or a BT Stealth or Dolan DF3 and I wonder what they'd choose Oh wait...we can see!

Chiappa was a guy that rode steel in that era:


Let's see what he rides these days:

gl98115

Interesting choice of helmet art by the Italian. I'm guessing this was the '96 Olympics.

Also a 10.000 flying 200 m would not have gotten you into the 24 man field at the latest Track World Cup.

Quinn8it

Carleton-
honestly, what would the actual difference be, for a BF-Track rider ,if it was possible to do Blind 200's on a carbon frame and a high end Steel Frame, assuming all other components and fit were identical?

carleton

I really think it's less about material and more about the build...which explains why I'm still on my Tiemeyer

Hida Yanra

as a guy racing a used Giant Omnium, but with a new plastic Yeti, I can confirm that you are doing this completely correctly.
Congrats on the steelie, and on the yeti to-be... you have good taste.

Giacomo 1 

Just curious -

I'm a steel guy, and I'm just wondering what type of steel frame was the most popular for pro track riders back when steel ruled?

Columbus had to be pretty popular, and I'm thinking SL or SLX were big hits. Maybe the heavier, stiffer CroMo was used? Reynolds or Tange maybe? What type of tubes are NJS approved and used in Keirin racing?

sickz

i use my bareknuckle. (older model w/ shorter wheelbase). i'm not fast enough to warrant anything non metallic.

Baby Puke

It's not the tubing that's NJS or not, it's the builder. I've seen NJS frames built with Columbus. And aero shapes, too.

Giacomo 1 

Thanks for that, I didn't know it was the builder.

I ask because I'll be bringing a Torelli made of Columbus SL tubing to the track, and I'm hoping the characteristics that make that type of steel frame so sweet to ride on the road will transfer to the track...

sickz

buy whatever inspires you the most. you'll perform better happily knowing you're riding what you like. if the results start to disappoint you, then you'll do something about it.