YogaKat

Currently I start out my day with a breakfast of coffee, biscotti and a protein shake consisting of milk, peanut butter, banana and one scoop of protein at around 7am. I head out for my ride usually 9:30am - 11:30 then have lunch when I get back.

I've been reading carbs rather than protein before working out.

Would it be a better option to replace the protein shake with oatmeal and fruit (or something like that) then save the shake to have with my lunch after riding?

chasm54

Whether you need to bother with protein shakes at all is a moot point, depending on time/intensity of rides and what's going on with te rest of your diet. But if you're having one, I'd make it post-ride rather than pre-ride. Oatmeal is good, slow-release complex carbs...

YogaKat

I replaced the shake with oatmeal this morning and didn't expect how much of a difference this made. I lost that sluggish feeling at the beginning of my ride and breezed on against 18mph headwinds on my first hour. Amazing what one simple change in diet can do.

The protein I use is soy protein. There are a few reasons I have been using it. First being that I am one of those that tries to gain weight as well as trying to build muscle. The other is that being an older female and due to family history, estrogen is not on option that my physician will prescribe. Therefore soy is a more natural way to replace the hormones in my system. I could be completely off base on that, but that is what motivated me to add it to my diet.

I wish there was a way to change the title of this thread to YogaKat's Nutrition Questions. I'm sure I will have more.

wolfchild

My daily ride is my commute to work. I prefer to ride in a fasted state and eat my breakfast after my ride is finished.
Here is my favourite breakfast:

- Bacon
- Onions and spinach sauted in bacon grease
- Eggs cooked in butter
- 1 whole Avocado

I don't eat any carbs for breakfast, I prefer to fuel myself with lots of protein and fat...On some days I don't eat any breakfast and instead I will have a smoothie made from whey protein, nut butter and pure cocoa.

NYMXer

I work out first and eat afterwards and have been doing this my whole life. Somewhere I have learned this is how you do it, not saying it's right for everyone, just right for me.

Heathpack 

I ride fasted a lot, on purpose (its an endurance riding thing, to try to force your body into fat metabolism). Pretty much a ride 3 hours or less, I intentionally won't eat prior, even very intense interval workouts contrary to common practice).

Over 3 hours or for a race, I'll eat carbs. Carbs plus protein will slow digestion, so that's what I'll eat prior to long distance rides. The lesser my initial intensity the closer I'll eat to the ride. So for a long casual ride with friends or a harder training ride that will star with a warm-up, I might eat 30 min prior to riding.

Carbs without protein will be digested more quickly, so before a race this is I'll just go with a high-carb meal. You don't want any food in your stomach during a race, so I'll eat 2-3 hours prior.

If I do a hard ride- a "workout"- I always have a recovery drink post-ride. My goal is 30 grams of protein (that's a lot), with carbs. The ideal is twice as much carbs as protein, but I need to lose weight, so I can't afford the calories. So I do a drink that is 250 cal/30 gm protein and 30 gm carb.

Carb breakfast is usually oatmeal, cold cereal or toast/English muffin with butter and jam.
Carb plus protein breakfast is usually oatmeal with egg stirred in.

Soy protein is beyond the scope of BF, but is of some concern because estrogen may increase the risk of breast cancer. If your doctor won't prescribe estrogen, you should think twice about relying heavily on soy protein.

Machka 

Avocado (1 whole) - 17 grams of carbs:
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Avocados, raw, all commercial varieties

Onion (1 small) - 7 grams of carbs:
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Onions, raw

Spinach (1 cup) - 1 gram of carbs:
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Spinach, raw

Eggs - 1 gram of carbs each:
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Egg, whole, cooked, hard-boiled


So, assuming that's what you have with 2 eggs, that comes to 27 grams of carbs.

TheLibrarian

I figure I'm doing something healthy so i can eat whatever i want. usually 2 eggs on toast, bland and boring but quick to make. Sometimes cereal or ham egg and cheese from the deli. never been a breakfast person but i try to force myself when i go riding. If I can't even force myself I'll stop and bring a fruit bar, cookies or chocolate bar to eat on a break. Even if i'm not hungry now i will be halfway through.

caloso

Depends on the ride. If it's a Z1 or Z2 ride, I will go out on just coffee. After an hour, I might break down and eat a banana or half a Clif Bar, but the purpose is to train yourself to just burn fat.

If it's high intensity, I need to eat first. Oatmeal works well for me.

wolfchild

None of those carbs you mention are starch or sugar and they have absolutely no effect on your blood sugar. Most of those carbs are fibre...Yes I know that an Avocado has 17 grams of carbs but they are all in a form of fibre.

Garfield Cat

When it comes to longer rides, its what you eat the day before that morning ride. Pro riders in stage races is a different thing. Their rides start late mornings or early noon.

tmac100

Don't forget that the process of gluconeogenesis converts "the body" into glucose. You may be starving (remember Biafara) but YOUR body will convert itself (in a cannibalistic manner) into glucose. There are "harmful byproducts", but...

The brain and CNS run on glucose and thus the body produces it when not enough is ingested thru the diet ....

As for what I eat while touring - on my tours in Australia I eat a mixture of carbs, fat and protein. This past July-August, I ate a cold breakfast/lunch from the previous day at about 7 am watching the sun rise, then napped in my warm sleeping bag for another half hour or more as the temps rose to about 10C so I could get on the road. For me there is NO POINT in bicycling in the cold morning when waiting for an hour makes the tour more comfortable and the tour speed "faster"

Usually I did 80 km/day but ate figs and nuts and (if I had it) meat - as in sausage/salami. My body needs protein and carbs, otherwise I don't function at all.

Oh, I have been a Type 1 insulin dependent diabetic since 1964 - about 51+ years since I was diagnosed. With many blood test strips, adjusting insulin during the day's tour, etc ..... my diet works for me but YMMV

KonaRider125

I have not found a better pre-ride breakfast than oatmeal(whole oats, not instant). 1/2 cup whole oats, 1 cup water, handful of raisins/goji berries/other dried fruit. Simmer 10 minutes. Topped with peanut or almond butter and lots of honey.

If your going on a very long ride, add 3-4 scrambled eggs on the side.

drew55

Carbs are carbs - It doesn't matter if they come with protein or just other carbs, 1 gram of carbohydrate is 1 gram of carbohydrate which will in short order be broken down into sugar during digestion. Anyone with diabetes will tell you that they've got to account for each and every one of them to regulate blood sugar. Yes, some can be offset to a certain degree by fiber, but they still need to be accounted for.

wolfchild

I disagree with you. Not all carbs have the same effect on your body...There is a huge difference between eating starch/sugar and eating an avocado...Eating starch and sugar will shut off your body's fat burning mechanism, eating eggs and avocado will keep you in fat burning mode...There is a huge big difference between eating a candy bar full of sugar and eating a handful of nuts...So no, not all carbs are the same.

wolfchild

Starches and sugars spike your blood sugar, some do it more then others, and all carbs eventually get converted into glucose in your body...Fibre carbs don't spike your blood sugar and fibre doesn't get converted into glucose, it just passes through your body. So how can you say that all carbs are the same ??..

gregf83 

Mostly incorrect. Eating carbs doesn't shut down your fat burning mechanism. Unless you're diabetic there's no performance benefit to restricting carbs on the bike. If you ride at a moderate to high intensity you'll be burning more carbs than you can ingest so you may as well try and replace some while riding.

Most riders have plenty of fat so a handful of nuts isn't going to help much on a bike ride. You'd be much better off with the candy bar if you're looking for energy. If you eat while you're riding there's also very little increase in blood sugar.

My normal breakfast before a ride is steel cut oats with cinnamon and apple or if it's a big ride I like French Toast with maple syrup. I've never had a problem eating shortly before rides. Generally rides and races in the morning don't start with much intensity. Ice hockey on the other hand, I could never eat within 3-4 hrs of a game.

drew55

I have diabetes.

I didn't say they are all alike, they just all need to be accounted for.

Those carbs not immediately converted to glucose still get converted, just at a different rate. It's not a spike, but a raising of the plateau. Eating things that are low in carbs doesn't preclude the need for insulin to make the glucose usable, it just needs a slow acting version that will be there when they are converted.

tmac100

Glycaemic index and food allergies have (for some people) profound effects ....

Carbonfiberboy 

I've been riding with a Type 1 guy for years. He's a good rider, used to race. He always eats carbs during rides, mostly Clif Bars and Shot Bloks. If he didn't, his BS would go in the toilet. He uses a pump which I think is automatic but occasionally gives himself a bolus. If I understand correctly, it uploads his BS data to his doctor. He's over 60 and still riding strong. His opinion is that it's not the different to be Type 1 with today's knowledge and equipment. It's just carbs and insulin, same as anyone except that the insulin is exogenous and you gotta know what you're doing to balance it correctly.

tmac100

With a pump this fellow is using rapid-acting insulin to keep his blood sugar down. How does he monitor his BS levels? Then he might need to adjust his pump insulin bolus.

I use one-touch strips for testing my BS, testing every couple of hours when touring day-long, and manually make adjustments to my fast-acting insulin when I use my needle. In addition. I have to lower my long-acting insulin bolus by 20% when on tour. In addition, I test more often when pedaling than when not - including more middle-of-the-night tests to keep my BS levels from going too low - with candy at the ready if going hypoglycemic. This does not seem to be the case when I am not touring - just a different dynamic as far as burning carbs goes.

YogaKat

Ooops, I started a thread last week then just now found it again. A lot of informative posting going on here.

Interesting regarding the fasting. I would find myself starving and feeling weak on just a two hour ride if I didn't eat at least 60 to 90 minutes prior. I do practice yoga on an empty stomach though.

Carbs plus protein and how it is digested is something that I wasn't aware of and will take note of that. That makes a lot of sense.

Beyond the scope - I was taking an over the counter supplement (mainly containing Black Cohosh and other ingredients) for the same reason and my doctor was aware of it. I discontinued that about a year and half later when I was prescribed a medicine that interacts with an insane number of other meds and supplements. I will reconsider the soy and opt for whey. It's been a long time and at this point I really may not need that boost. My doctor's main concern was family history of high blood pressure leading to stroke even though my BP always tests in the good range.

A side note: I have put down the ice cream and chocolate lately and started eating a lot more spinach, avocado, tomatoes and other fresh fruits and veggies in addition to regular proteins. (Other meals of course, not for breakfast.)

EDIT:
Sports nutrition is also something very new to me.
Many years ago when I was really into body building I pretty much ate anything and everything and even light up a smoke after my work outs. Horrible I know, but it was in my late teens and early twenties and thought I was invincible.

Carbonfiberboy 

The pump monitors, and displays a graph of BS levels, though I don't know the X axis time period. He backs up the pump by testing manually every once in a while, like on a lunch stop. He gives a bolus with a button on the pump. Of course the pump is reactive, rather than active, hence the bolus.

Yes, burning carbs on the bike or when hiking is obviously different, even for me.

Heathpack 

Whenever you ride, you are burning calories, some are mobilized from fat and some from glycogen stores, the proportion depends on the intensity with which you are riding. At lower intensity, you burn proportionally more fat. At high intensity, you burn more carb.

For cycling purposes, you have infinite fat stores vs about 1200 cal (this is a low number taking into account your description of yourself as 'tiny'). Given your size, you probably burn about 300 cal/hr when riding at lower intensity and around 425-450ish/hr in a hard workout.

Therefore, you should easily have enough stored glycogen for a two hour ride fasted. One reason to ride fasted is to maximize calorie decficit if you're trying to lose weight. But the other is to try to improve fat metabolism- this is pretty vital for endurance racing, which you have mentioned is your aspiration. So at some point, you are going to want to try to eat less on these short (2ish hr) rides. Probably not now, smart perhaps to take 6 months to build some fitness.

Also, if you're interested in endurance racing, be aware that in many ways these become nutrition contests. Nutrition is make or break during these events. There is individual variation for sure and some trial & error. But there's also a lot of basic concepts to get under your belt. Beware what you read on BFs- endurance racing is different than endurance riding at lower intensity. Also people will tell you quite dogmatically what they do with the belief that's what you should do. What you really need is an understanding of the basic concepts and then enough training time to try various things out & see what works for your body. If I find the time I'll jot down some ideas for you.

YogaKat

Excellent explanation and information. Looking ahead at the HH100: nutrition before, during and after is one of my main concerns. I feel it wise to start working on this now so that I am ready to keep fueled properly throughout those 100 miles. I can very well see how nutrition in this endurance ride can either make or break me (especially in the high temps I will be riding in.)