Joe Gardner

I would love to gain 5 - 10 lbs of muscle this summer. I currently maintain a diet of 3000+ calories a day. I figure 1 pound a week would be great. I just started taking creatine, and have noticed my LT is higher then before, but no weight / muscle gain. I have been on creatine for the last three weeks. I'm thinking about a Weight gainer, but i dont want to gain weight to gain weight. Looking for muscle mass, not fat.

Any ideas on picking up an extra 5 - 10 lbs of muscle this summer? I would love to beable to feel out my shirt for a change!

6'5" tall, 170 lbs... looking for 180.

fubar5

How much of your diet is protein?
At the recomendation of my friend(at Physical Therapist) I have bumped up my protein intake to around 100 grams a day, and I've been feeling alot better in fact. But 100 grams is alot of tuna and smoothies( without tuna and smoothies I barely make 40 grams of protein a day). Whey protein tastes really really bad, and getting a whole protein bar down can be a real challenge.

Joe Gardner

Good question, Im not sure exactly how many grams of protein i eat each day. I usualy down a tuna fish sandwitch for lunch, and a foot long Subway Club for dinner. Its not rare for me to grill up a 8oz steak after work, but rarely more then once a week.

The weight gainer shakes really pack in the protein, around 50g per serving. I figure one shake a night, right before bed should do the trick.

Precision Pedal

It is going to largely depend on your metabolism. Gaining muscle mass in your upper body is not difficult, but it will help if you can shrug some weights around, not huge but enough of a routine that you are taxing your muscles. Also age has alot to do with it.Many years ago when I was in my late 20's I came in at 6'2" and anywhere from 165in the summer to 175 in the winter. However once I got to 32 I noticed my clothes were getting smaller. I stepped on a scale and BAM 200 lbs. So I go out and sweat like 10 people 190 is all I can get down to now.

MediaCreations 

I've got plenty of extra weight you can have free.

Unfortunately, not a lot of it is muscle. I want to hold on to all the muscle that I've got.

Now - if we can just figure out a way of transfering weight over the net.

pat5319

If you're not doin it already-

Lift weights to stress the areas you want to develop, you HAVE to "tear down" muscles to build them, ( they rebuild more than they've been torn down) if you don't tear 'em up thay won't get bigger and you won't gain the right kind of weight.


Ride Tougher
Pat

Joe Gardner

Good point pat. Right now I do shoulder, arms and a bit of upper body work. However, due to my surgery, im unable to do any type of ab work, or heavy lifting. Makes working out hard when you have a few bars in your chest!

nathank

i tried mostly unsuccessfully from about age 15 to 25 to gain weight, and then was finally able to gain 15 lbs in 1 1/2 years - up to a max of 170lbs - i'm 6'1" and was downright skinny at 150-155 from age 20-25 - although it's not bad for cycling...

it finally did work when i combined solid lifting 5-6 days per week, conscious effort to eat a ton including lots of chicken, creatine, gainer, plus i think just getting older my metabolism slowed a little.

although the last 2 years i've reduced the weights to about once per week and i've lost weight so i'm back down in the low-mid 160's...

i would think that taking gainer wouldn't hurt but eating well is probably better. i think gianer can often be less effective than eating b/c your body is unable to process all the calories at once and some of them just pass through - i also had frequent gas when i took gainer

finding someway too stress and really break down the muscles is necessary for "hard-gainers" like us. then it's mostly a matter of eating enough calories to allow your body to rebuild.

not sure if you're wanting to gain just upper body, but sounds challenging as you can't do much heavy lifting (i lifted hard for 2 years) but you can also do squats, lunges and then sprints and intervals on the bike for the lower body.

if you're just wanting it for the visual effect, i found triceps to be the most effective b/c you can make some major gains and then it really shows - also i love lifting for triceps... with the bulge on your arms and a washboard stomach people don't notive that your chest isn't so full, plus strong triceps are of more value in most sports than chest which is mostly just a 'show' muscle - plus studies have shown that MEN notice muscular chests, but women tend to notice muscular butts, stomachs and arms... so if women's your motivation...

bikehard700

Joe,
As you might know (I mention it in the forum once in a while), I work out regularly for muscle stregnth, and growth in the winter, when not riding as much. Anyway, the advice on protein is the best so far... tuna, eggs, and chicken or beef (trim the fat off) are excellent. Milk and yogurt also add to the count at the end of the day. Weight gain shakes are good in the morning, BUT, at night, if they have high carb counts, you will not burn it off sleeping, and it will add fat. There are some good high protein, low carb bars on the market that will help as well... just have to get used to the taste. Wash it down with 1% milk (skim if you can).
Now, about the creatine. I do use it. It only works if you take it immediately after a weight workout, when the muscle fibers are torn open and raw, so it can replace what you depleted during your workout. It volumizes by getting into the muscle, but does not become tissue... you probably don't need to be using it.
The best way to add lean muscle, is to eat more protein, and lift weights, but be careful not to overtrain. Allow at least 24/48 hours for the musle tissue to repair itself, and eat a post-workout shake after each session.
Let us know how you do.

nathank

bikehard700

although i agree with almost everything else you said, this is not what i understand about creatine - that you should take it after a workout and that it's mostly used in rebuilding...

my understanding is that creatine is produced naturally in the body and used not only in the rebuilding, but more importantly in the energy conversion process of high-stress usage of muscle fibers. So when you take it as a supplement you increase the available amount and are able to get a little more effort out of your muscles (i.e. work out harder) which leads to a better break-down of the muscle tissue which then induces more muscle-rebuilding and a net gain of muscle. it also causes the muscles to hold more water so they look even bigger than they actually grow, although after the water-gain is lost there is still significant muscle growth.

creatine has been shown, in conjunction with with training, to stimulate muscle growth and particularly in short-burst fast-twitch type muscle movements to greatly improve strength (i.e. sprinting, jumping or maximum-effort weight lifting)

the way i learned it is there is a loading period of 1-2 weeks where you take large amounts of creatine to raise the levels in the body (read the recommendation on most packaging for loading doses). thereafter, i took mine with grape juice which supposedly increased the body's absorption about 15-30 minutes before my workout and then ate something with protein and calories but not creatine afterwards. don't use creatine for a long period of time, but cycle off and then back on maybe every 2-3 months.

also, bikehard700, i'm also not sure that i agree about the recommendation to not take the gainer at night. it depends on your body and metabolism... i think if you're a ultra-low-fat high-metabolism kind of guy (true for most trying to gain) working out regularly your body will use this energy at night for muscle rebuilding, not fat storage as you suggest. it takes 1-2 days or more to rebuild muscle after a hard workout. i used to do exactly that and take the gainer before bed - depends on how lean you are. when i was in the 135-150 lbs in the 4-5% body fat range for 6'1" it was irrelevant if i gained a little fat as long as i gained some muscle.

Joe Gardner

Thanks everyone! Right now, i spend about an hour a day on my bike, and 20 minutes on a total gym. At work, I have a set of 10 pound dumbbells and do simple curls a few times a day. I'm thinking about signing up at a gym, I would love to have access to more equipment, but I just don’t see my self as a gym type of guy.

As for the creatine, I have been on it for almost a month. As recommended, i loaded up correctly the first 5 days. Now i have one spoonful in a cup of fresh OJ every morning. The only difference i have noticed so far, is my sprint speed seems to be higher then before, and my lactate threshold has defiantly improved. Is it due to the creatine? I have no idea, but im going to keep on taking it for now.

I have been told the importance of diet, and im trying to change for the better. My daily diet looks something like this:

9:00am breakfast: two eggs, 12oz fresh squeezed OJ (w/ creatine), beagle with cream cheese.
I will sometimes swap out the eggs for cold cereal.

10:00 - 11:30: On the bike

12:30pm lunch: Tuna fish sandwich on wheat or grilled cheese sandwich, 1 Banana, down with a large glass of lemon aid and Cytomax recovery drink.

(2:00pm - 10:00pm: Work)

6:00pm Dinner: Foot long club from subway or large bowl of rice with chicken. If short on time, I’ll hit Wendy’s, Carls Jr, or Taco Bell.

10:30pm: Late snack, anything from fresh fruit to an ice cream sandwich.

11:00 - 11:20: On the total gym.

I have been thinking about meal replacement bars, I could eat one between lunch and dinner. Most people say eat 5 small meals a day, rather then 3 large meals.

oxologic

I totally disagree with weight gaining. You can gain weight from muscles. However, doing anything to gain weight, other than gaining muscle, is bad. I am just on the edge of the acceptable weight. So long as you are fine, there is no need to gain weight, definitely not when you are a pro cyclist.

nathank

Sounds like you're doing this just about right to me... congrats on improving your LT. that usually means you've been training really well (or you were really out of shape to begin with)

i'm just guessing here, but i would say your sprint has improved mainly from training plus a little help from the creatine (i.e. creatine w/o the training wouldn't have done much), but i don't think the LT should be much affected by the creatine-- creatine should promote strength, whereas the LT has little to do with strength and is determined by your cardiovascular system (heart, lungs, ability to transport acid out of muscles, etc) and you don't necessarily have to be really straining your muscles in order to train your cardio system (although you often do both together) - thus, i would expect the improvements in your LT to be almost completely from your aerobic training... of course there's also probably a connection between your cardio training and your sprint strength gains

...although, the heart is a muscle, so maybe the creatine helps it too, but i just don't think building up the heart works the same as building up your biceps or something - besides, when do you get that sore muscle feeling in your heart? i think it would dangerous to tear down your heart in the same way as you do your bicep, and your body prevents you from doing so... and when it fails that basically is what a heart attack is... (this is only my speculation here... i know little about cardiology)

fubar5

Joe, make sure you train for strength not mass. Do you have a book you're using?

bac

Okay, I'm ready to get blasted, but creatine scares me. I've read about this stuff, and I know people who have used it with some success, but it still worries me.

The bottom line (for me!) is that it's just not worth the (@ least perceived) risk. Your mileage may vary.

Joe Gardner

Aww, but i want mass! Seriously, i would like to have a bit more mass (as well as strength) on my upper body, Im not at all worried about my legs, there huge...

Can you reccomend a good book? I have the Cyclist training bible, but they do not go into weight lifting much at all.

Amir R. Pakdel

I go to the gym about twice a week, and when I go I spend about 3-4 hours there.

In the past month that I have taking up (I had let go for some months) serious cycling with long milages and a lot of climbing (about 2000 meters height each week), I have gained about 5 pounds. And a body to show for it.

I am sure it is muscles mass as I can easily tell if it was fat (around the belly and arms etc.) I have not used any special supplements. I just ate a normal diet of good amounts of protein and carbs.

Bodies are different so you have to find what is good for you.

fubar5

Well, just don't go for too much mass. Mass looks good but isn't as useful or as long term as strength.

I have a bookl called "Fitness Weight Training" put out buy human kinetics. It has three different tracks, muscle toning, strength, and mass. Plus it has 6 zones/training programs, and based on a bench press test you can figure out which zone to start in. You might be able to pick it up off of Half.com.

Joe Gardner

Thanks, I'll check it out. I think im going to sign up for a 3 months membership at the local gym... See if i can build some strength

Emm

Just want to explain some points about creatine.Well what I've learnt at uni anyway!!
*It's stored in the muscle as Creatine phosphate.
*It dosn't require the muscle fiber to be damaged to get in but the muscle WILL uptake more after/ during a workout as it needs to replenish it's supply.
*Creatine phosphate is used in the muscle at the start of contracile activity
* It is broken to creatine and phosphate which releases energy, plus the phosphate joins with ADP forming ATP
*this is a very quick way of producing ATP, but not the main way
* and can only be used for the first few seconds of contractile activity
*ATP is the main store energy of the cell- that is ATP is broken back down to ADP and Phosphate but when ATP goes to ADP and Phosphate it releases a large amount of energy, more than that required to make ATP
*fast twitch fibers have a high ATP use, hence sprinting uses creatine phosphate in the first few seconds, and more creatine phosphate means more energy in the FIRST FEW SECONDS of contractile activity
* so also drinking a fluid with creatine in it prior to and during a ride that has several sprints in it should give you the benifit of more power at the start of each sprint.

So I hope this helps
Emm

RWTD

Joe I currently weight train as well as bike and also chest is my most difficult bodypart to maintain size on.I think the hardest bodyparts to gain size on are also the first you tend to lose size on during long bike rides etc.I think you are on the right track with the need to greatly increase calorie levels but I suggest you consider your own healthier custom shakes rather than sugar laden (and expensive)gainers and bars.With a blender and water you can use for protien such sources as Whey(recommended),milk or raw eggs.For complex carbs I add raw oatmeal for simple carbs I add various fruits or figs,dates etc.For fat I add flax,peanut butter,nutsor coconut or cream.Various spices can be added as flavor.All this leads to such variety and convinient complete nutrition that I often have up to 3 or 4 of these shakes a day and only cook 1 or two additional meals.If you decide to take this approach the whey can be bought in bulk very cheaply by mailorder.

chewa

Beagle?

maybe go for Great dane for some weight gain. Sorry Joe, couldn't resist

Seriously, this subject interests me. I'm a 41 year old, cycle 100 plus miles most weeks and have a fairly active lifestyle. I'm 6' weigh 185lbs, generally in good shape but have trouble shifting my "lovehandles" (I love my wine and beer)

I've also lost a lot of the chest muscle I gained when hauling myself about on crutches for 4 months and would like to get it back. i.e I want to gain some weight but as muscle, like Joe.

my further problem is that I am vegetarian, which knocks out a lot of supplements which seem to be based on animal protein.

i don't have time to go to the gym, tho' I do use a total gym at home (occasionally).

Any suggestions as to how I can build muscle using minimum of gym or total gym time?

RWTD

You need to set aside at least an hour three times a week or you are wasting your time.Use adjustable dumbells and barbell plus a thick rubber mat(horse stall mats work well).Total Gym may work but I am not familiar with it.Pick two or three exercizes for each bodypart(chest,back,shoulders,arms,legs)and do two sets of 12 to 15 reps for each exercise each workout focusing on proper execution and feeling the targeted muscle working(this is challenging until some mass is actually built)and starting with relatively light weights.As you advance you want to progressively add more weight ,more exercises and split the bodyparts into different sessions.To prioritize chest do it first with maybe more exercises.There are numerous web sites with exercise discriptions and routine advice if you do a web search. For diet it sounds like you need to do a lot of food conbining(beans+rice sounds good)and eat a lot of soy or milk and eggs if allowed in order to get the necessary complete protien.Good Luck

LittleBigMan

By far the most important thing is to exercise those muscles with resistance training. Exercise releases the hormones that stimulate muscle development naturally. Combined with eating properly, you will grow muscle, if you stick with it.

Don't forget that you are not trying to copy someone else's body
structure.

Maelstrom 

Personally I found creatine only helped with water retention. During my workout heyday I would down upwards of 1.5g or protein to 1 pnd of Muscle. That is a major key to muscle growth. Creatine is a toss up. It works on some and on others does nothing.