I recently rode with a women from off the mountain and she had a rpm computer...she said it helped improve her speed. I asked my local LBS about it and they said it's silly to have one here in the mountains. They said don't bother with it. I'm happy to agree with them because the last thing I want is to spend more money on my bike...especially on something so computer/tech related...I'm not into the whole gear thing. I just want what I need, no excess.

So, I was thinking a Heart Rate Monitor would be more appropriate. I want to make sure I am properly training and challenging myself.

Any recommendations on a HRM? I want something basic and inexpensive...I'm not a very technical person and don't want my cycling to get complicated...I just want to make sure I'm reaching peak performance.

POLAR HRM's are, to me, the best. They have several models, and prices, to choose from and hold up quite well to the rigors of riding.

By RPM do you mean cadence? I should think that would be a welcome addition, especially in the mountains, to your computer. Many computers have them as an add on option at reasonable prices.

I feel that HRM can be made to look more stylish. I'll definitely wear them wherever I go if they are more stylish.

Guy on the Cycle South Carolina tour said he lost 50+ lbs in 2 months by setting
his HRM to the burn fat zone. He would work out for X hours and stay exclusively in that
burn fat zone. What's that all about?

The "fat burning zone," 50-60% of MaxHR, is really something of a myth. It has been perpetuated to encourage people who don't like to sweat to at least get some easy-to-moderate exercise. Having said that, the zone from 60-70% can be very beneficial for burning fat. You don't burn fat [or, more accurately, convert fat into glycogen] in that zone any faster than in higher aerobic intensities [say, 75-85%], but you don't burn it that much slower, either, and it's an intensity level that most relatively fit people feel comfortable maintaining for extended periods.

So, any more recommendations on HRM?

I'm not really interested in burning fat, but increasing my endurance and speed. I just want to make sure I'm getting the most out of my rides.

Been using a Polar Protrainer XT for well over a year, and I think it is essential in my training. I just started cycling a few weeks ago and I am learning to use it during cycling. I am primarily a distance runner.

Look at your budget first. HRMs go from about $60 to many hundreds of dollars.

The Polar A3 is around $80 +/- and will give you the all-important "time in zone."

Performance Bike Axiom HR 150 $55 is a very good deal giving all the basic features, including time-in-zone.
Find it here.

The HRM will be useless unless you first find your max HR, since intensity is usually referred to as a percent of max. Finding max is a hard and painful workout, and I suggest you repeat it a couple of times in the weeks following your first try to confirm your findings.

Once you have your max you're ready to go. You'll find your HR as info overload or a training miracle. There's no in between.

I went out and bought a cheap one. Simply tells me my current speed, distance of trip, and total distance. It does help improve speed if you are self motivating. I get my best and strongest rides when on my own riding a cliff face etc. Because of this and my background in weight lifting I need concrete numbers on speed etc. While I dont worry about speed at the time I do time my runs and count the number of walks I do. When riding fire roads and other relatively easy treks I am a speed freak and constantly compare my speed with other times I have hit the trails. It is a preference but one that isn't 'useless' by any means.

I'm using the Polar XT cycle.
The only thing I don't like about it is sometimes it
seems difficult to get the monitoring function started.
other than that I like it, can choose from 3 zones to work
out in.
If I were to look into a new one I'd probably look at the
Polar 210, or 510.

Marty

I have a Polar HRM and can't ride without it now. I use to be like you - no excess on the bike. But I was riding blind. Didn't know how far I could push it because I had no baseline.

Becareful with how you read your HRM. Your heart rate will drop as you get more fit. If you consistently ride up a hill at 180 bpm when you first get it then notice the same ride only requires 160 bpm several months later then you've improved. You can go faster uphill. Take the max heart rate test like every 3 months on a trainer if you can to see where you're at.

An HRM will benefit you the most if you are training rigorously. In a nutshell, it can help you determine that you're riding hard enough on hard days, and easy enough on recovery days.

They're also useful for pacing yourself on long rides, i.e. that you're not overdoing or underdoing it. It's easy to go too hard early in the ride, and not conserve your strength/energy for later. By the same token, the HRM can help you determine that you are riding up to an effort level that you are capable of.

Shoot....

Anyone that tells you to forget about a cadence moniter is crazy. When I first started doing hill climbs, my hills would average between 6 and 9 km/hr. I was horrified. Actually, I was closer to 6 km/hr. As I got better at it, I started climbing faster. I am still new at this hill game. I try to keep my hills no slower than 15.5 km/hr. As I continue to work with hill training, I really hope to get to 20+ km/hr. A bike computer wouldn't kill you, and it doesn't cost that much to begin with. No more expensive than the mid-range moniters, and in some cases, cheaper. Just my 2 cents with that one.

As far as HRM's are concerned, it is true. I think any old moniter will work, but if you want something with a backlight for your night riding or early morning riding, you'll have to shell out a couple of more bucks. I was happy with my hrm until I started riding at night and couldn't read it! I am no expert on HRM's, but check www.heartmoniters.com. They have most (if not all) of the legitimate hrm's on the market. They are very unbiased and just give the description of the watches and the prices. I bought a bunch of moniters from them in the past.

A word of caution. From my own experience, the Timex digital hrm's are horrifyingly bad. I am not down with that piece of junk. They're too hard to figure out, sometimes you can't read them unless you twist your arm around and bend your head back in some britney-spears, can't-dance movement. And they sometimes take a bit of time to start up. I have 10 of them I can't wait to get out of my office. They are in a box and I ain't touchin' them again!

As far as using them to increase endurance and speed, it's true you would need to know max hr in order to do achieve these objectives. You can do a sub-max test, which is not as strenuous as the max hr test. Or you can do the max hr test and go to a performance lab in the neighborhood, and they can determine what your max hr is and give you the recommendations on what heart rate ranges for you to work at using your hrm. I went to a performance lab at my club that was based out of San Diego, and I did the max hr test and got the readout and the recommendations on where to work my training schedule. I also know I'm due for a new test, and I'll be out there in Oct to have my next one performed. I just wouldn't trust anyone else. They are lifesavers. Find some way of doing a test to determine what numbers you want to work with on your hrm. That 220-age crap is as old as the driven snow. It just doesn't take into account genetics, fitness levels, or any other factors that may affect your heart rate.

Good luck.

Koffee Brown

Any opinions on Oregon Scientifics HRMs? I posted about this earlier and got no bites.

Ditto, any opinions on HRMs by Ciclosport or by Sigma?

Cheers,
Jamie

:confused: What's up with that?

It really doesn't have to be so complicated, especially if you aren't training for the TdF. For riders with a more recreational/fitness focus, you can start by determining your anaerobic threshold (which is a lot less painful and much easier to determine than max HR), along with the standard 220 minus age calculation, and come up with a pretty reasonable estimate. Then, basically, focus your pace and exertion based on AT.

FWIW, for rigorous training, isn't HR at your lactate threshold, rather than max HR, really the most important thing to know? Problem is, I guess that can't be determined w/out help from a performance lab.

My $.02

Roadbuzz-

I quickly wanted to say that I train people all the time, and I use heart rate moniters (I actually have 28 moniters for loan). I teach classes, but I also do one on one training also. I'll train them for whatever objective they are trying to achieve. I think the people I train are the fittest, strongest people I've ever come across (as opposed to the typical aerobic bunny teacher) because I insist all my students use heart rate moniters. In the fall, I will start to incorporate strength training into my resume, since I 100% believe in resistence training to increase performance.

As far as your other comments, I think we are agreeing here, for the most part. It is true that for riders who are more recreationally inclined, it is easier to do an anaerobic threshold test rather than a maximum heart rate test. I would never personally try to administer a maximum heart rate test either, as it is too painful for the subject, and really should only be done by professionals in a controlled setting.

Actually, it does have to be so complicated for recreationally inclined people. What one has to keep in mind is that they are not professional athletes, no matter how much these people want to think they are. They want to look, act and dress like athletes, but they don't want to maintain the same fitness program. They couldn't- athletes spend their whole lives and days training. We can't. We have jobs and social lives and eat a bit differently than the typical professional athlete. But we can modify the program of a typical professional athlete for the average individual so they can get fit too. And when we are trying to get fit, there has to be a way to measure and moniter our fitness improvements. That's why we use heart rate moniters. I always tell everyone that going without a moniter is like covering your odometer in your car when you're trying to drive. How do you moniter your speed if you can't see how fast you're driving?

Ok, so then it does become complicated, but the good news is that it's not rocket science. It would be nice if everyone could go to a performance lab and get tested, but unfortunately, for a lot of people, it's not an option. Perhaps there's not one nearby, or they can't afford one, or whatever the reason. Well, you can still take some tests that are not as accurate as the performance labs' tests, but they are pretty accurate. Much more accurate than those generalized, one-size-fits-all formulas. I highly discourage formulas with everyone I encounter. When they start throwing out that 220- age, I cut them off, throw a heart rate moniter on them, then start training them to get used to seeing their number ranges for whatever drills we're working with that training session. We'll do this for a few weeks until I'm satisfied with their fitness level, and I think they are comfortable with using the heart rate moniter. Then I run them through a heart rate test, usually a anaerobic threshold test. I could take them through a sub-max test, but I would rather take them through an anaerobic threshold test (also known as the lactate threshold test). Once we get the heart rate number for their anaerobic threshold, we can calculate out all their heart rate ranges. From there, we can work with whatever they are looking to improve in. They want to work on hills? Well, now we have a good idea of what their heart rate ranges are (typically 80% and upwards), and using their heart rates, we can measure their performance, and as they get fitter, those numbers will change, and THAT'S how we can use the heart rate moniter to improve our performance. You want to burn some fat? Typically, fat burning occurs at anaerobic threshold. How do we know what anaerobic threshold is without using the moniter? Well, we know what the feeling is, but we don't know how we can measure it without quantifying that feeling. As we get fitter, we can more easily hit higher heart rates. By looking at those numbers, we now can see how we've improved, and we can readjust our program to reflect these changes. That's how we can constantly work towards getting better, fitter, faster and stronger. I work with a periodization program for a 12 month period. I slice up the time people will work within certain heart rates and put together a comprehensive training program. Even if this sounds complicated, I am equally sure that for the professional athlete, the amount of work I put together for my recreational athlete is a piece of cake compared to their training program. But I've never put one together and not seen substantial changes in anyone I've worked with. So I will swear by heart rate moniters until I die, and when I do, cremate my body and stick it in a heart rate moniter box and shoot it out into space. That's just how much I believe in them.

For what it's worth, maximum heart rate and lactate threshold are important to know. I know my maximum heart rate and my anaerobic threshold. I also try to work towards pushing my anaerobic threshold closer to my maximum heart rate so I can train at higher levels. But I also use lactate threshold to determine where my fat burning range is (for the ceiling). There is a floor for my fat burning range, and by knowing my maximum heart rate range, I can calculate out all my heart rate ranges and figure out where my low end fat burning range is. From here, I can design some great interval traning classes to increase my anaerobic threshold and expand my fat burning range. It's a battle. I have a lot of fat, so I have a lot of work to do.

We can talk until the cows come home about the importance of heart rate moniters. Bring it on... I love to talk and tonight's a slow night.... (look, just kidding, for real... I'm a heart rate moniter nut, man and I got it bad)

To make the long story short, the answer to the original question is... ???

I forgot.
Koffee

So, Koffee....where do you train people? I'd love to have a personal trainer

All that attention. I really need someone to drag my butt out of bed and get me riding in the morning before the days get much shorter. Evening rides with the sunset are my favorite. They wont last much longer.

Anyway...sounds like you like HRM. I think I'm going to seriously look into it. I'll need to find out where I can get my max heart rate monitored and a little more info on how to use the information correctly.

Thanks for all the info.

I figured something like that was the reason for so many HRMs.

I think so, too.

I'd use driving w/out a tachometer as the analogy for training w/out an HRM.

So, are you saying anaerobic threshold and lactate threshold are the same thing? (That question shouldn't be read as disagreement... I'm really asking.) If so, how do you perform the test. I mean, I know when I go anaerobic, but then I spend a lot of time doing that kind of thing.

Done! Sometimes, slow nights are a good thing. Thanks for your post!

Yes, I say that lactate threshold and anaerobic threshold are the same thing. Both have the same meaning. Anaerobic (lactate) threshold is the point when exercising where the body passes from aerobic to anaerobic metabolism- from the primarily fat burning metabolism to the glycogen (primarily carbohydrate) burning metabolism. It is at this point that the body cannot take in enough oxygen for the intensity you are exercising at. As you continue exercising at this higher intensity, the body begins to draw upon alternative energy pathways due to the lack of oxygen the body is taking in. This anaerobic energy pathway is known as glycolysis. The end products produced in this cellular process is ATP, which is used for energy to keep the muscles contracting, and lactic acid. This lactic acid accumulation is what causes that painful feeling in the legs. Luckily, research shows that as you become more efficient with your exercise, the body will use that lactic acid accumulation to convert back to pyruvate in the mitochondria. This pyruvate is needed to drive the reaction for the krebs cycle (citric acid cycle) to start- leading to the body using fat as it's primary energy source. As you get fitter, instead of accumulating lactic acid in the muscles, which would eventually cause the muscles to become tired and basically, your workout would be over, you can train the body to the point where your body will shunt more and more of that lactic acid back into the mitochondria, and the body will convert the lactic acid back to pyruvate and begin the krebs cycle, which would cause a greater dependence of fat metabolism. Fat metabolism is more desireable, as it produces more ATP and of course, uses fat from the body's fat cells as it's energy source to produce the ATP. Ok- this is just the explanation of what's going on in your body so we can understand how and why we administer the anaerobic threshold test.

Going into administering the test, I like to use the 2 X 20 anaerobic test. What this tests for is your anaerobic threshold. To administer the test, you need a bike (one of those ergometer bikes or a stationary bike that measures speed that you can program manually, or an indoor cycling bike) and a heart rate moniter. First, take at least a 10 minute warmup with an easy spinning of the legs. Once you've finished your warm up, begin increasing heart rate over the next 5 minutes, until you have reached the point where you reached a high intensity. The way you know you've reached anaerobic intensity is by going by rate of perceived exertion. The feeling you'll have is that you'll be out of breath and soreness and pain in the legs (from lactic acid accumulation). From there, you need to take your heart rate as high as you can and maintain that one number on your heart rate moniter that you can sustain without increasing or decreasing your heart rate for 20 minutes. Once you've reached the 20 minute mark of the test, decrease the intensity and take a 5 minute break. From there, repeat the test again, simulating the same conditions as much as possible, using the same number you obtained from the first 20 minute test. YOU MUST MAINTAIN THE SAME NUMBER ON YOUR HEART RATE MONITER THAT YOU MAINTAINED IN THE FIRST 20 MINUTE TEST.

Hmmmmm.... this is turning into a different kind of thread. If people have more to comment on with this, let's create a new topic, and call it "cardiovascular testing" or "anaerobic testing wth a heart rate moniter".

By the way, the answer to the original question is...?

I can't remember... ;-)

Koffee

"From there, you need to take your heart rate as high as you can and maintain that one number on your heart rate monitor that you can sustain without increasing or decreasing your heart rate for 20 minutes."-koffee

This may sound naive, but how do you know you can sustain such an elevated heart rate for 20 minutes? I know if my legs are burning and I'm out of breath I go into protection mode and slow down and recover so to ensure I can go the distance. I guess I don't understand how you sustain such a challenge and then repeat it.

"The way you know you've reached anaerobic intensity is by going by rate of perceived exertion. The feeling you'll have is that you'll be out of breath and soreness and pain in the legs (from lactic acid accumulation)." - koffee


I'm also confused by the word 'perceived'. I know the reason I want a heart rate monitor is to challenge myself physically. I feel that I am too kind to my body. I am very aware of a physical goal and want to finish and not burnout. So, I pace myself...sometimes I think my fear of burnout costs me speed and improvement. What my mind perceives as exhaustion seems very different than what my body perceives as exhaustion. I think my mind is very kind. Does this make sense? So, how do you truly know you are at the desired point to sustain a 20 minute pace? I guess this is why I'd only every do these tests with the supervision of a professional.

This is a very informative thread...thanks!

Well when you reach your maximum level, maintain that level. If at first you don't succeed (most don't) keep trying. You train yourself (muscles and mental intensity) to push that hard. It really is a trained level. Being able to work throught that heart rate and the sheering pain of the lactic build up is a trained behaviour and can come with time.

Some say with sports in general you have to be a mascocist of sorts. Learn to enjoy and thrive harder with the intensity.

As for perceived. When I used to workout regularily, for example, I would load the weight to my max. I would reach a perceived failure. This is when my brain is screaming to stop because the intesity is tooo tough for my body. In reality I could usually pull out 1 or 2 more. When I trained people this difference (between brain failure and actual physical failure) was greater sometimes 4 to 5 reps depending on the persons individual intensity. While you dn't always want to train in this range of intensity it is important.

Hi Betta-

I'm sorry I wasn't able to respond to your post until now. I've had a hard week at work, and I just don't think it's getting better in the rat race.

Anyway, for the easy one, rate of perceived exertion (RPE) is a term used by fitness professionals to describe how you're feeling as you're working out. It's a way to subjectively quantify the intensity at which you are working out. RPE is a scale, usually from 1- 10, with one being easiest, 5 being hard, but can maintain the intensity of exercise, and 10 being hardest. Sometimes scales are 1- 20 too, but I've mostly seen 1- 10. So, for a test like the one I described, I'd ask for about an 8 on the scale. For me, I'd define 8 as vigorous exercise, difficult to maintain the intensity, very sore leg muscles. Once you're feeling that level of exertion, I'd ask you to look at your heart rate monitor and then maintain that number on your heart rate monitor for the 20 minutes, then the second 20 minutes, I'd have you aim for that number right away and repeat the test. From there, you have your numbers for your anaerobic threshold, and you can calculate out the rest of your numbers from that one number for the rest of your heart rates. If you need some more clarification on this, send me a PM so we can hook up.

Ok, so leading into the second part of your question. You said that you'd work out at such a high intensity that you couldn't maintain your workout. Well then, you are working beyond your anaerobic threshold. In fact, you are working WAY beyond your anaerobic threshold. What you want is the highest intensity you can possibly maintain without having to slow down. If you are slowing down, you are over the desired intensity. So if you were working with me, what I would do would be to immediately come up to you and modify your workout as quickly as possible to get you to the desired intensity. It is a good idea to get someone to work with you so that you don't overdo it or underdo it either.

So this leads to the question, what do you do with the numbers once you've gotten what you think is your anaerobic threshold? Well, typically, at that intensity, anaerobic threshold for the fit individual is ABOUT 85%. If someone is more deconditioned, they could hit anaerobic threshold as soon as 70% max heart rate. But as the unfit individual gets more conditioned, they will find that they are able to work out at a higher heart rate, and their anaerobic threshold increases. And as individuals working on getting fitter, we want to train our bodies to increase our anaerobic threshold. Someone like Lance Armstrong may do his time trials at 85- 90& heart rate max, but he spends days, months, and years working to push his anaerobic threshold closer to his maximum heart rate. I get a lot of people that tell me they worked out at 85- 90% max heart rate for the whole class, or for my entire session, and I just have to wave them away. Because truly, if they were at 85- 90% max heart rate for the ENTIRE class, they would have had heart attacks for real. Most likely, they were anywhere between 75- 85%, and sometimes might have peeked a little close to 90% for a few seconds every now and then. The truth is, we are not athletes. or not professional athletes. We don't spend 3 hours in the morning, then go off and do more time for 4- 5 hours in the later day every day on a bike. Professionals do. And that's why they're professional and we're recreational. I don't ever let anyone I work with forget that. And I am always more than happy to charge them for me to come out and train them every day for 8 hours a day. I'd also give them about a week before they'd break too.

Be realistic when you do your test. And be honest with yourself, and don't push yourself beyond what I would call an 8 on the scale. Because you will bonk just how you described when you posted your last reply, and you'll never get your numbers, which means you won't be able to train properly. If you're working at the wrong numbers all the time, you'll never see the improvement you want to see.

Good luck with your training.

Koffee