holy fiber batman, talk about jaw dropping, that's almost 500 grams of carbs in one meal alone.... have you heard of insulin? have you had your blood sugar checked? I worry about you...

Well its your body, you can do to it what ever you please. But if your trying to lose weight, and increase exercise, with a target result of becoming healthier than you are today.......I'd rethink or research more the deep fried parts :)

I'm not a fan of "deep frying" myself. Refined vegetable oils with there damaged/hydrogenated/transfats are realy bad news and I'm an advocate of animal fats anyway. Not refined vegetable oils. Maybe you could find yourself some beef tallow for the deep fryer and use in moderation but gently shallow frying in butter/ghee or lard is tastier anyway as well as being healthier.

Regards, Anthony

Where are you getting your information? According to the USDA Nutrient database, 1 lb. of Swiss chard and 1 c. of garbanzo beans is 71 g carbo, of which 18 g is fiber. 1 lb. of kale and 1 c. of lentils is about 85 g carbo, including 25 g fiber. That's about 53% of calories as carbs in the case of the lentils and kale meal -- and an extremely filling and tasty 450 calorie dinner, I might add, with a buttload of calcium, iron, vitamin C, potassium, vitamin K, B vitamins...

Ignore mrfreddy. He's annoying and ill-informed, but harmless.

gosh, that's the thanks I get? I serve up scientifcally based factual information, supported by dozens of studies, and all I get in return is insults!

anyway, tonight I decided to test out my sprinting ability, hobbled as I am by a lack of glucose on my system ( I probably ate less carbs all week than alison in a single meal....). after an hour swimming at a slow steady pace, I did a few 50 yard sprints. Now, when I was a wee lad of 15 or so, I was a year round swimmer, and I think the best I ever did was 28 seconds. Now, out of shape and knockin on 50 years old, and after a full hour non stop in the pool, I timed myself at 36 seconds. Now, maybe if I'd had a bag of donuts I could have done it in 35 seconds, but, you know, who cares?

mrfreddy,

You have my vote!!!
mike

my mistake, and what a whopper, sorry, I read the calorie column, not the carbs (was in a hurry to get to the pool)....

still that's close to 100 g. carbs in one meal, do that 3x per day, still a lot of carbs... do you realize that's the equivalent in one day to more than one cup of sugar? of course, it's released slightly more slowly than the sugar, but still.. you know you can get all that your body needs without all that sugar, if you can just get past that fat phobia you seemed to have bought into... btw, I think a lot of the vitamins you named are fat soluble, and wont do you much good, unless you, you know, eat some fat along with them...

Why should I have dinner 3 x per day?

Yes. Yes it is. I believe I've already mentioned that I strive for 50% of calories as carbo when I'm not training so hard (like now), and more like 60% when I am training to race.

Who's fat phobic? I get probably 30-40% of calories as fat. Mostly unsaturated, but I'm a cheese fiend, and anyway this last couple of weeks have been an orgy of steak and pork sausage -- I think I've got enough dietary saturated fat to last me a lifetime. :rolleyes:

You *think*. This is your expert scientific opinion? I named three minerals, two vitamins, and one complex of vitamins. Of them, Vitamin K is fat-soluble. Considering my pound of kale (an infrequent treat) contains about 46,000% of the USRDA of K, I think it's OK if the olive oil (and maybe coconut milk, yum!) that I consume it with is insufficient to efficiently carry it all into my blood stream. ;)

oh, ok... nevermind then.... personally I'd advise a lot more fat, including sat. fat, a lot more often, and a lot less carbs but hey, do what you like...

Mike, keep up the good work, you're doing fantastic! btw, you're menu sounds pretty similar to mine.

since we're talkin vitamins, here's what fitday.com thinks is in one of my typical daily food (2500 calories of eggs, bacon, cheese, steak (12oz), salmon (12oz), broccoli, butter):

a little short in vit. d, k, magnesium, potassium (need supplements, I guess) and sodium (not true, I didnt record the salt...)

Fat-Soluble Vitamins
Nutrient Units % RDA
Vitamin A mcg_RE 224.11
Vitamin D mcg 13.06
Vitamin E mg_ATE 183.39
Vitamin K mcg 7.72

Water-Soluble Vitamins
Nutrient Units I% RDA
Vitamin C mg 658.87
Thiamin mg 143.08
Riboflavin mg 206.5
Vitamin B-6 mg 239.52
Vitamin B-12 mcg 779.85
Niacin mg 289.42
Folate mcg 164.62

Trace Minerals
Nutrient Units % RDA
Iron mg 171.92
Zinc mg 155.26
Selenium mcg 452.39
Copper mg 0.931 --- ---

Major Minerals
Nutrient Units % RDA
Calcium mg 101.59
Phosphorus mg 379.93
Magnesium mg 74.75
Sodium mg 4368.4 --- ---
Potassium

Phytonutrients and other plant-based health-producing factors track roughly with folate (USRDA 400ug). You're pretty deficient in my book. A multivitamin/multimineral supplement is a good idea regardless though. (I take one with excess B vitamins, just to hedge my bets, and I've just bumped my calcium up to over 800 mg from supplements even though I get several servings' worth of calcium-containing or fortified foods on a typical day.)

Waitaminnit. Dear god, man, did I read that right? 172 mg of iron? Crap, better add a chelator to your supplement routine! :eek: Seriously. Google "iron carcinogenesis" or run it through Pubmed. You're combining an excess consumption (10 x USRDA) of *oxidative* free radicals with a marked deficiency of *antioxidants*. Not something that causes short-term issues, but something that could, potentially, trigger life-threatening chronic illness. I know you're going to come back with your whole carbs-insulin-diabetes schtick, but that is just not as conclusive to me as the oxidative stress link with cancer. :(

We've been talking about why Lance Armstrong eats a high-carbo diet for performance. What we haven't really touched on is that he is also eating the diet of a cancer survivor. http://www.cancerproject.org/

Anyway, best wishes. I'm glad that you are able to continue to meet your physical goals. If you're ever in the neighborhood, c'mon out with the Square Wheels. I'd say half our members are in the circa-sixty cohort, and they all kick my ass regularly. :D

"an orgy of steak and pork sausage"

Your making me feel uncomfortable!!!

LOL :eek:

:lol:

ok, ok, I'll do some homework on that folate/iron/anti-oxidative business...

I like how you dismiss the carbs-insulin-diabetes as "schtick" it's not, it's quite serious, and quite real.

and yes, there are a lot of cancer survivors who go for the pc solutions, and I cant say I blame them. if I went thru a big cancer scare, I doubt that I would take on a radical diet, or one that is considered radical by the mainstream anyway.

one last comment, do you know the compositional make-up of mothers milk? 50% FAT, a lot of that is saturated fat, the other 50% are carbs and proteins (I forget the exact figure). so, you know, if mother nature thought that was good for growing babies, I'm pretty sure it'll do me no harm...

oh yeah, I forgot to add that I do eat fruit from time to time, berries, half banana, etc.

the iron is 172% of RDA.... not 172mg....

Cool, it's all I ask. :) Berries are awesome, antioxidant powerhouses.

I should have recognized that 170+ mg of iron wasn't possible, but exceeding the USRDA by any amount is still a red flag. Remember that iron sticks around in the body and is difficult to clear. Women need to supplement because they bleed regularly, but most men hardly need the USRDA unless they sweat a LOT or have occult blood loss in the stool.

By "schtick" I meant the melodramatic routine you've gone through a few times here. I wasn't interested when you first posted your link-dump, but I'll read back. In the meantime though, I will state that while I recognize that extreme measures might well be necessary in *existing* diabetes or obesity, I do *not* see evidence for dietary carbohydrate as a risk factor in the *development* of type 2 diabetes. This abstract, part of a paper from the Endocrinology, Diabetes and Clinical Nutrition dept. at OHSU, sums it up:

"Since the dawn of civilization, carbohydrate has comprised the largest source of energy in the diet for most populations. The source of the carbohydrate has been from plants in the form of complex carbohydrate high in fiber. Only in affluent cultures has sugar contributed so much of the total energy. When carbohydrate is consumed as a major component of a plant-based diet, a high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet is associated with low plasma levels of total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, less coronary heart disease, less diabetes, and less obesity. Very low-carbohydrate (ketogenic) diets may provide short-term solutions but do not lead to a long-term solution for most people."

And that's for a being that will double its body weight in six months. Is that your goal? :) (About 5% of calories in breastmilk are from protein, and about 40% from carbohydrate. Does that mimic your intake, too?)

well I guess I should research this some more, but I cant see why it would be a problem when you're eating whole foods... btw, I wasnt able to plug in the grass fed beef that I normally eat,so the figures are off somewhat... dont know if that affects the iron? anyway, that nutcase Mercola recommends donating blood twice a year to lower iron levels, no harm in that I suppose.



melodrama??? just presenting the case to a difficult audience, ha ha...


it's a pretty good guess that refined carbs and sugar play a huge role, seeing as how the rise in diabetes coincides with the rise of consumption of said refined carbs and sugar...


this starts off with a dubious contention and then just dissovles into pure opinion... wrapped around pure falsehoods, ha haa... first off, there is a lot of contention about what we ate prehistorically, which matters a lot more than what we ate since the "dawn of civilization" (which I take to mean the beginning of organized agriculutre 10k years ago, a mear blip on the evolutionary time scale). PC researchers want to believe humans foraged all day at the savannah salad bar and only ate lean wild animals... there is loads of evidence that we ate as much sat. fat as we could, and that was a lot. about the sugar/affluent countries, i think it's actually true that,today anyway, it's the rich countries that eat high quality meat, it's the poor that are stuck with rice and beans.

and why cant a low carb diet be a long term solution? that is just somebody's opion. I've been eating this way for almost 4 years, I see no reason to stop. sure, lots of people try it and fail, but I blame a lot of that on the nonsense spread around in the media about low carb diets.

I knew someone would say something along those lines... but aren't growth factors considered a good thing for an athlete, especially for 50 plus athletes?

as for my typical daily intake, according to fitday anyway, it's 55% fats (23% sat. 6% poly, 20% mono), 36% protein, 8% carbs...

sorry to go on and on about this, but this part just grabbed my attention.

this is what pc nutritional authorities want to believe, however, it may shock you to know that there is no evidence supporting this case. an enormous fraud has been perpetrated on the public over the past 40 years, based on very very little evidence. if you don't believe me, google "gary taubes" "big fat lie" or go to theomnivore.com, read his articles on sat. fat, go to westonprice.com (org?), google "cholestoral skeptics" and on and on....

Im always open to other opinions, so i went to theomnivore.com. Tried to use the link there for Gary Taubes. Doesnt work. So off to google i go.
With this as the result:
http://www.reason.com/0303/fe.mf.big.shtml

Off with the blinders, friend. Ornish's extremely low-fat approach is in the literature as having significant effect against everything from heart disease to cancer.

Ornish? talk about a diet that's hard to maintin for the long term.

also, he has only proved that his diet, in COMBINATION with exercise and meditation, has an impact on lowering cholestoral (which in itself has very little to do with heart disease). Despite his claims, he has not isolated the diet itself as a causative agent. So yes, if you eat extreme low fat, go hungry the rest of your life, meditate (to try to forget how hungry you are), and exercise a lot, you can reverse heart disease, or a least reverse some unreliable indicators of heart disease.

me, I'd rather eat well and exercise, thank you!

well, you can believe fumento's histrionic distortions, or you can peruse the well-reasoned arguments below:

The Cholesterol Myths (condensed version of Dr. Uffe Ravnskov's book)

http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm

The Soft Science of Dietary Fat by Gary Taubes,published in "Science"

http://nasw.org/mem-maint/awards/The...%20science.pdf "

"big fat lie" published in NY Times Magazine

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=1726

read all about Ornish, scroll toward to the bottom to read about his "proof"

http://www.theomnivore.com/Ornish.html