thebankman

For my health I've cut down meat consumption to one serving or less a day...you really can get by without it, but it's kind of a pain to have to actively seek replacement foods. Completely cut out pork and duck due to the bad stuff in em. But unfortunately I love the taste of beef and chicken so it's still part of my diet. It's really easy, if you love burgers, to replace the beef with a big portabello mushroom, they have a similar texture to a patty and have more taste than beef if seasoned well.

Also, since reducing the meat content of my meals plus a few other lifestyle changes I've lost more weight than I have in ten years. It's a substantial factor in the weight loss if not a primary one

FXjohn

Good job. Like I said earlier, i try to treat meat like "candy" maybe a porterhouse or a piece of chicken once in awhile. Right now I'm cheating though, I don't treat fish as "Meat", but I believe salmon is a nutritious and healthy thing to eat.

KrisPistofferson

Hi, all. It's now been over a week and a half since I've given up the meat, and it's been fun. I've got one question-Does anyone know of a product like V-8 that doesn't have a week's worth of sodium per serving? It's kind of maddening how many otherwise healthy products are not worth considering due to sodium content. Even the "low sodium" kind is too dang salty. I don't have the money right now to invest in a juicer, or I would.

Lecterman

Not for the salmon

FXjohn

They don't live that long. Do vegetarians get mad if bears eat fish or if wolves eat deer?
I saw them demeonstrating in Texas against Cheney/hunting in general yesterday.

azurechaos

i wouldn't say that vegetarians get mad per se, it may be a sad thing to see, but it is a necessary part of the system.

i think the difference that most would point out is that humans have a choice whether to be compassionate or not, and that the circumstances in which our culture raises and consumes animals is far from integrating with the natural system.

FXjohn

Yes, I do agree with many of your points.
People have it too easy..just buying processed burger.
Maybe if they had to raise or hunt their own animals, and butcher them, they would be more in tune with what they are actually doing. I fish, and clean and eat my own fish as well as buying wild salmon that is caught in a sustainable way. Meanwhile, going to go buy more firm tofu today.

-=(8)=-

^^^^ John...fry that tufu up in garlic spiked olive oil or something
like that for some great veggie junque food !!
MMMmmmmm......T_o_F_u...
I dont even kill bugs so I just dont understand hunting.
What possible enjoyment can there be in deciding YOU
need something, a deer, cyote, etc, to die for a moment...
one second of YOUR entertainment. To quote the Human League..
"It took seconds of your time, to take it's life".
I never will get it........
That being said, carnivors would find it annoying for me to preach
to them about how selfish they are for 'needing' that Big Mac the
same way I dont want to hear some fat butterball preaching to
me about how many nutrients I am missing in my diet......Yeah,
I just rode 8 miles to work through the snowy hills of Vermont in 1 degree
weather and you've been sitting in your car thats been idling to keep
warm, powerstuffing donuts and Im the one in bad shape ??
Ill take your suggestions under advisement

Lecterman

+1

Blue Order

I was just about to say get a juicer...

I've totally cut out sodium, so I know what you mean about sodium content, but I haven't actually looked for V8 since then. Best bet is to start saving for a juicer.

Congratulations on the first week-and-a-half!

beppe

This isn't an answer to your question, I admit.

However, many new vegetarians feel like their sodium consumption increases once they have stopped eating meat, and become worried about hypertension, etc. Some even say that they feel like they are craving salt.

This is normal--meat is a huge source of sodium intake for most Americans, and if it is your only source (formerly), your body will need to make up for it somehow.

Vegetarians have a much lower incidence of hypertension (and numerous other disorders) independent of sodium intake. It's not a huge health risk for us, so eat what you like w/r/t sodium, unless a doctor has specifically told you otherwise.

Another aside: There is a school of thought that argues that the food is saltier in cultures that eat little to no meat, and they cite historical China, Japan, and Italy as examples of this. As an aside, to this day Italian food in Italy is noticably saltier than Italian food in the U.S.

Blue Order

In my own case, I've been told several times over a number of years that my blood pressure was high. The most recent time my blood pressure was checked, it was quite high, and I couldn't blame it on the fact that I just ran my hand through a power saw, like the last time it was checked.

So I cut out all salt, and within two weeks, my blood pressure had dropped significantly, and within a month, was down to a normal level.

I've noticed since cutting out salt that although food (for example, vegetables) doesn't taste salty, it's still salty-- I have that "ate a lot of salt" thirst after eating certain vegetables, for instance. And I do have salt carvings, by the way-- I've read that this is common, and harmful, for hypertensives.

I'm going to experiment with salt and water balance (i.e., I'm going to increase my water consumption and salt consumption), because I've read that hypertension can be controlled through the blood's water/salt balance, but only after I buy a blood pressure monitor so I know if I'm helping or harming myself.

DannoXYZ 

It's not the actual sodium levels that matter in blood-pressure. It's the sodium-magnesium-potassium-calcium balance...

FXjohn

Bolthouse farms has a good quality vegetable juice drink, it's about a quart and has 20% of the RDA of Sodium. For a juicer go cheap, like a juiceman Jr.
I bought my second one at a garage sale.

Blue Order

So where do I go to get the info to figure that one out?

iBarna

I just found this thread. I've been vegan for 6 years. Umm... I don't really think about it that much these days anymore. I also don't watch what I eat. I eat stuff that I like and that makes me feel good (so I don't eat fried foods or desserts because those make me sick). Indian food is where it's at, my friends :drool:

DannoXYZ 

Here's some journals:

JAP - Role of potassium in regulating blood flow and blood pressure Dietary supplementation of potassium can lower blood pressure in normal and some hypertensive patients. Again, in contrast to NaCl restriction, the response to potassium supplementation is slow to appear, taking ~4 wk. Such supplementation reduces the need for antihypertensive medication. "Salt-sensitive" hypertension responds particularly well, perhaps, in part, because supplementation with potassium increases the urinary excretion of sodium chloride.

NewsTarget - Blaming dietary sodium for high blood pressure is too simplistic most theories focus on sodium's in vivo interaction with potassium, magnesium and calcium. In fact, some experts believe that these nutrients play more of a role in these individuals' salt sensitivity than sodium itself. Deficiencies in these complementary minerals may actually be the larger culprit in hypertension.

UMMC - What Lifestyle Changes are needed to Control High BLood Pressure Some experts believe that sufficient intake of minerals, particularly potassium, magnesium, and calcium, may be more beneficial than salt restriction for reducing blood pressure.

* Potassium. Studies have indicated that potassium deficiencies increase the risk for high blood pressure. More important more recent studies indicate that a potassium-rich diet may reduce hypertension. The best source of potassium is from the fruits and vegetables that contain them. In fact, there is some evidence that a potassium-rich diet can reduce the risk of stroke by 22% to 40%.

Body & Fitness - What is Blood Pressure? However, Dr. Whitaker states unequivocally that it is as important to increase your intake of both magnesium and potassium as it is to reduce your intake of salt. Potassium works with sodium to help regulate fluids in the cells, and to equalize the acid-alkaline balance in the blood. To function correctly, these minerals need to be present in the body in a ratio of 5:1, potassium to sodium. Health Counselor editor Karolyn Ga***** reports that the typical American diet includes twice as much sodium as potassium. This results in water retention and the loss of potassium through the urine. In fact, Researchers from the University of Mississippi report that too little potassium combined with too much sodium may be a major contributing factor in the development of hypertension.

DairyCouncil - A New Look At Dietary Patterns and Hypertension

Physiological Reviews - Sodium/Calcium Exchange: Its Physiological Implications

CSU - Diet and Hypertension A newer area of interest is the relationship between calcium and high blood pressure. People with a low calcium intake seem to be at increased risk for hypertension. Everyone should meet the Dietary Reference Intake (DRI) for calcium every day. For adults, this is 1,000 mg per day. For adults over 50, 1,200 mg is recommended.

However, note that high-calcium intake inhibits absorption of iron. So take just the recommended dosage of calcium, it's all about balance.

Blue Order

Thanks! Much appreciated!

nicomachus

You want to try "coarse" tofu. Silken tofu comes in a variety of textures, from soft to firm and even extra-firm. But, like you, I've had even the extra-firm stuff break up in a stir fry. For stir fry now I use "coarse" tofu, usually sold in bulk. It holds up much better.

GuitarWizard

Well....

Just got my results back from the Doc......my cholesterol dropped nearly 70 points (249 to 183) from my last exam (like 6 years ago ), and my blood pressure is very good....although I don't recall what it is.

Meat is good for you...lean cuts of meat, that is. And plus, cows are ugly animals, so it's ok to eat them.

DannoXYZ 

yeah, imagine if people actually ate those cute baby fur-seals they've been clubbing...

cerewa

From an ethical standpoint, I try not to eat anything that (in my opinion) has feelings and has been grossly mistreated. From a health standpoint, I try not to eat anything that raises risk of heart disease or cancer. I also don't eat stuff that just plain tastes bad to me (most seafood). I also try to choose a diet with low environmental impact. So... I'm a lacto-ovo vegetarian. (or an almost-vegetarian by some people's standards because I'm not too careful about things like chicken stock or gelatin being in my diet)

I think that generally speaking, my diet has enough protein. I don't really agree with the people that say that soy is bad for you- I eat a moderate amount of soy and it never seems to do me any harm. Some peoplel think dairy is bad for you, too, but for me personally I think dairy is an important part of my diet. I could stand to eat more beans and nuts and less dairy and soy, maybe, but I think on the whole my diet is fine. I don't believe in letting dietary concerns take over my life, so I eat whatever's convenient.

I also go almost everywhere by bike. Yay veggie bikers.

Enthalpic

Holy stereotype batman!

According to you if I eat a piece of chicken I am a fat, lazy, selfish, fast food gorging, inhumane, petrol waster who can’t ride a measly 8miles. Too funny… 8miles, be proud about that man. haha

FXjohn

I believe yogurt is pretty good for you, even though it's "dairy", it has live yogurt culture.

GuitarWizard

Yeah I know...I mean, I couldn't eat a dog or anything....and honestly, if I had a pet cow and grew attached to it, I would probably have issues eating that too.