C_Heath

Ok, The T&N forum has been dead all day, I guess everyones out riding Anyhow, I have "tried" to add weight training to my execise program that started around the first of February. My ultimate goal is to loose weight and both feel and look good. On Feb 1, I weighed in a 210 pounds. I did a little modified atkins deal for 7 days to kind of kickstart my deal.

Atkins sucked, I lost 4 pounds but felt hungover all the time, Glad it was only for a week. With that said, I kicked it into high gear. At 5'9" 206 I started eating healthy foods, and taking in minimal fats and Calories and started exercising (bike).

As of this past week. I have gotten down to 196 pounds and feel good. I dont like to set goals but About 20 of us couples are heading to the beach as we do ever year and I would LOVE to Clock in around 175. At 1.66 pounds per week, I think this is very attainable. Consuming an average of 1700 calories a day of good fruit, wheats and a ton of water, I have started seeing a change in my clothes and also the mirror. Though I havnt gotten one of those "have you lost weight?" I know I look different.

I have alot of coaches that have helped me from this forum and I thank them.

Ok, this past week, I have started adding weights to my program. 100% for definition. I do not want to bulk up. Imagine Race driver, Tony Stewart and thats me. Maybe a little lighter now but I look just like him people say.

People say, to get a cut look and tone up, go light weight, high reps. My dad is a power lifter and he hasnt a clue because he tries to get me to bulk up and I surely dont want that. So dad is not a help, (thought he has the gym so I have to be nice).

Im sore as heck and only did LIGHT stuff, like 25 pound curls, 50 pound benches. No more really than 25 pounds and high reps on anything. My main focus is to get a jump start and tone my muscles under neath my fat so as I burn off the fat with the bike and cardio, My tone definition will start to show through.

Is this wrong? Why am Im sore? I can lift several more pounds than what Im doing now. Is it the high reps? Anyone? I dont want to gain weight, thats for sure. Just wanna tone up as my fat burns off and hopefully the muscles that I am working will show through as the fat goes away?

Thanks in advance for all the replies and thanks for the support from DannoXYZ, Edzo, Sandy Swimmer, Lowcel and KevinMcdade.

kfdh19

By the sounds of things you are not getting enough protein my friend. No matter what your goals are, protein is a very essential macronutrient. When you train with weights, your muscles are broken down, and subsequently need a combonation of proteins, carbohydrates, and fats to rebuild themselves. I would certinally recommend consuming a quick release protein shake that is high in amino acids (Whey Protein) post workout to aid in your recovery. Don't succumb to the myth that protein powders are for bodybuilders becuase it is simply not true, everyone needs protein, especially athletes, regardless of their sport. As for bodybulders, there is a lot more to the equation than a shake or two a day... these guys are consuming thousands upon thousands of calories a day, doing minimal cardio and participating in a weight routine that is night and day from yours.

If you are still finding recovery an issue after supplementing with protein, you may choose to add a BCAA supplement to your lineup. BCAA stands for Branched Chain Amino Acids and consists of the amino acids most essential to rebuilding torn muscles.

All the best and good luck!!

-kyle

SandySwimmer

I also drink whey protein shakes (with a frozen banana in it) after a workout. Protein is important. I try to have some protein within the hour of my strength training workout. If I can't have a shake, I have a can of sardines, some peanut butter, or a handful of nuts.

With soreness . . .
make sure you stretch afterwards
drink lots of water, keep hydrated

I'm usually sore the day after if I've been away from strength training, or if I suddenly increased reps or increased weight. It's amazing what doing slow motion lifts can do for the muscles . . . slow motion push-ups are really interesting.

With strength training, I see so many people at the gym rush and end up depending on momentum rather than the strength of muscles . . . and they wonder why they aren't seeing progress.

Get a deep tissue sports massage every now and then just to get circulation going (after my workout on the day before my day off is my favorite time).

Machka 

Look up DOMS or Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness on google. You'll get a pile of sites telling you why you are sore ... and some might even tell you what to do about it.

Guest

You're sore because you're working the muscles in a different way- and you're tearing the muscle when you do your weightlifting, even if you're not lifting very heavy. You're also new to the weight training routine too. So you are going to be sore. Continue with your training, though, and try a few things- massage, a whirlpool bath afterwards, or stretching.

What you are experiencing is DOMS- delayed onset muscle soreness. This is to be expected, since it is caused by microtears in the muscle from weightlifting. The DOMS after your weightlifting will probably last for several weeks, but eventually, it will minimize. Just give it time, and keep up the good work.

Koffee

C_Heath

thx everyone!

53-11_alltheway

Being sore means your muscles are adapting. I love it.

C_Heath

sup 53 long time no read.

Mach42

Eat a lot of protein to avoid being sore for as long. In my experience, if I keep loaded up on protein, especially before bed and right after I wake up, the soreness goes away much more quickly. There have been a few times where I skipped breakfast two days after a workout day. It hurt a lot more that day than the day before when I had kept up with my protein shakes and meals. Your body needs that stuff to repair those muscles and if you don't give your body what it needs, it has nothing to repair them with, and may even cannibalize protein from your muscles given the right circumstances, such as not eating a meal.

McSpin

You should be aware that "toning" and "definition" has little to do with muscle and weight lifting. It has everything to do with body fat. Remove fat, and muscles show, no matter what size the muscle is.

That said, larger muscles are not a bad thing unless you're a competitve climber. Each pound of muscle will burn about 50 calories/day - at rest! Weight training can be addictive. Not only will you lose weight, you will place muscle in all the right spots. Don't worry about getting too bulky. It would take one heck of a lot of serious wieght training for a long time for that to even be a possibility. Most serious weight trainers who have little body fat, look skinny in their street clothes. Those guys on TV in the body building contests are extreme examples of fanatical training for many years and plenty of steroids. Those guys get very limited aerobic excercise. It's considered bad for building large muscles.

Pay attention to what others have said about protein and hydrating. When training, many would recommend that you have approx. 1 gram of protein/day for each pound of lean body mass. Drink many glasses of water each day. The combination of diet, weight training, and aerobic excercise can transform a body into a lean, mean bike riding machine, very quickly.

Yo-

Drop the pink dumbbells and go heavy. It's doing nothing for your muscles... you're just burning calories doing those high reps (that's fine if that's what you want). If you don't weight train and go heavy then when you hit that 175 pounds, you will just be a miniature version of yourself. Your face and neck will look slimmer and your abs may start to show and people will notice your weight loss, but your body composition will be exactly as it is now (give or take depending on how it is now). You want as much muscle as possible and on a calorie restricted diet you won't gain any muscle (except for some newbie gains. But nothing noticeable) When you go on a calorie restricted diet your body wants to get rid of that "expensive" muscle unless you weight train. If you lose muscle it will get harder and harder to lose weight as you get closer to 175. Basically go on a weight training program tailored to building muscle (bulking up) for bodybuilders. Your diet will ensure you don't "bulk up". Going on your dad's powerlifting routine would be a great idea. He'll probably have a whole bunch of compound exercises you can do. But stick to 6-10 reps.

Soreness is just lactic acid buildup and not an indication of the muscle fibers being torn. Good luck.

skandal20

Yo and McSpin know what they're talking about. Listen to them.

C_Heath

lol pink dumbells!!!!

thx guys!

FCastigl

just like everyone else said, its normal to be sore after beginning a new weight training regimen. your body needs time to adapt.

upping your protein intake is a good way to recover faster between workouts, as well as to maximize the results of the workout.

Guest

Ummm.... not.

See a personal trainer. What you said really made no sense. Not even the reps you mentioned make sense. And make sure the personal trainer has a good certification, not some lightweight, phone it home certification they got online.

Koffee

Yo-

That's great. Telling me I'm wrong and then telling the OP to go see a trainer. So what rep range would you recommend?


To the OP, unless you want specific training (for a sport, more explosion in your muscles, etc) don't go to a personal trainer. They are just a waste of money. If you have plenty of money, then go ahead. But just wanting to lose fat while keeping your muscle doesn't require a personal trainer.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16

This should get you started. But there's a lot of information on the other parts of the forum.

Guest

Depends. For mass, I say 3- 5 repetitions. For muscle endurance, I say 8- 10 reps. For muscle maintenance, I say 12- 15 reps. Of course, this is according to the ACE guidelines and was given to us at the 2005 ACSM personal trainer summit in NYC. This is how personal trainers work. Where did you get your information from?

Koffee

Yo-

First off building, maintaining, or losing muscle is all about diet (assuming you are going heavy enough to do 12 reps).

You make it sound like someone will get huge doing 3-5 reps while another person won't gain muscle doing 12-15 reps.

3-5 and you're form is compromised and you don't deplete enough atp or cause enough microtears. 12-15 will let you make muscle, but 6-10 will be optimal.

Bottom line: Lift heavy with good form and you will be rewarded.

Guest

No, I'm talking about the proper means of weightlifting for mass vs. muscular endurance... and I'm referring to working at a certain percent of your 1 RM. What % of your 1RM are you referring to? At what point are you talking about max. hypertrophy? I wasn't referring to diet. If you want to talk diet, that's a whole different ballgame, and at that point, it's time to see a personal trainer who can put together your training program, and for your nutritional needs, either a dietitian or nutritionist (dietitian preferable) to determine your metabolism and work with the personal trainer to see what your nutritional needs would be based on the amount of exercise you're doing).

*sigh* This is a lost cause. Arguing with someone who hasn't the proper training is... pfffft. No more interest in participating. Good luck to the OP.

Koffee

Romulus

First congratulations on all your success so far... You are doing great, really great...

It is normal to feel sore after working out... in fact, feeling sore is an indication that you are challenging your muscles, and they will be forced to respond. However, your goal of 1.66 lbs a week is rapid, the recomendation out there is 1lb a week, more than that and you start loosing muscle. However, you can counteract that by doing what people here are saying, eat more lean stake... Proteins, in any form, shake, milk, stake... One good idea is to increase the protein intake, and if you are watching your calories, cut down on carbs... Not like the Atkins, as a perfect diet is a balanced diet, just switch some...

The other thing - it's really hard to bulk up while you are trying to loose weight. Bodybuilder double their caloric intake in order to bulk up. So, from that aspect, even going heavy will do you good and probably be the fastest way to get a toned defined body. Just to make sure that you understand, 5-7 reps is considered heavy lifting for building overall strength, 8-12 reps is usually a good balance for building muscle, and 12-16 reps is what is considered high reps for endurance and toning. What I would recommend is switch weekly what you are doing, thus start with a week of 12-16 reps, do one week of 8-12 reps, then go heavy for another week to get some strength, and then lift 8-12 for another week, and then repeat cycle (one month, you want to progress, so hopefully, by the time you repeat the cycle, you are able to lift more, you are stronger, and hey - more defined)... Since you are just starting, 3 days a week, full body workout is probably good. Pick 6-7 exercises, 1 per muscle group (e.g. start with big muscle groups - pull ups are the best exercise out there for back and core muscles overall, bench press for chest, overhead press for your delts, curls and extensions for bi and tris, abs, and legs), do 3 sets per exercise... on your last set you should not be able to lift anymore then the desired number of reps (e.g. 15 reps and that's it, you cannot lift anymore - usually that's about 70-80% of your max - the weight you can do only one rep)... switch the order day to day (e.g. back, chest, delt, bi, tri, legs, abs then chest, back, delt, tri, bi, legs, abs)

Every time I get back to lifting, I end up throwing up after the first few workouts and feeling really sore and even painful for a week... I take it easy that week, maybe work out only once, or twice... One of those solutions for heart burn will help here too... The soreness is due to build up of lactic acid in the muscles, so if you counteract the acid, you help the problem. Also, stretching and massaging the muscles will help decrease soreness, as it gets rid of some lactic acid... It takes a couple weeks to a month for your body to fully adjust, but by then you will see a more defined body... If you get through the first month, you will start feeling good about the workouts, and close to second month you will see drastic changes (the first month it's mainly innervation results, so you gain strength as your nervous system learns how to stimulate those unused muscle groups) which will keep you motivated...

Good luck...

Roody

The American College of Sport Medicine published a position paper on weight training for healthy adults. Here is their reccommendation for strength training:


Here is their reccommendation for muscular hypertrophy (increasing muscle mass):

Here is their reccommendation for increasing power:


And finally, here is their reccommendation for increasin local muscle endurance:


I added the bold print. This is from a PDF, POSITION STAND: Progression Models in Resistance Training for Healthy Adults:


https://acsm-msse.org/pt/re/msse/posi...856144!9001!-1
Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise - positionstandards


I just resumed weight lifting after more than a year off due to injuries. I have been following the above guidelines for increasing strength. In six weeks, I have noticed significant gains in my strength and have increased loads three times, following the guidelines above. My muscles are also much larger, in only six weeks. I have had almost no muscle soreness whatsoever.

I hope this helps the OP. I think the best bet, if you can't go to a personal trainer, is to seek out good information. In this case, the information came from the group that "trains the trainers."

Pelon

I wish that was true. If each pound of muscle burned 50 calories per day, a person with 50 lbs. of muscle would have a basal metabolic rate of 2,500 calories per day from muscles alone. When you add the higher calories needed to keep the organs going and the small number of calories needed for the rest of the body, that person's daily requirements would be well over 4,000 calories before adding in daily exercise.

A more realistic estimate is about 6 calories per pound of muscle (https://www.powerbar.com/NutritionRes...-B9A7A52BA4FA).

Yo-

Quit saying go see a PT. We're on these kinds of forums so we can learn all this by ourselves and not pay someone money that took a 3 day course. Losing weight while keeping muscle does not require an "expert".

What is this weightlifting for mass vs. endurance?

I'm talking about the OP's original situation which is weightlifting to keep muscle while on a caloric deficit. Optimal reps would be 6-10 reps. None of this hoopla 1RM %tage. Telling him to lift 75% of his 1 rep max won't help him. Simply lift a weight you can do for 10 reps. Next set add more weight. When you can do that for 10 reps add more weight. Repeat.

By the way, I agree with the other poster that said to cycle the reps. Do what works for you. Some people respond to higher reps, some lower. 6-10 is a good mix.


Let's keep this on-topic. You don't know me or my training.

cod3man

Hey C_Health,

Good job on picking up the weights. From what you have written it would just be that you are simply sore from using your muscles and all the tissue around it like tendons, ligaments and crap- you are not sore the day after from lactic acid. You will only feel lactic acid when you are lifting or shortly after. Your muscles and ligaments will swell and thus pain- soreness. Which is why resting is quite essential, more so then eating protein shakes and such. If you do feel the muscle just stretching and burning you should stop. You could be getting tendonitis, or a tear in the muscle. It does take time to build up to a point where you can lift for over an hour and not injure yourself. It also takes time build up to training a body part multiple times a week. Try to much to soon and you will have to take time off because of injury/ strain.


Also don't ask anyone here about weight lifting- like someone else said go to bodybuilding forums, they can give you great advice. Like I always wonder when I am in the gym- why would a out of shape person hire another out of shape person to tell what works and what doesn't? Obviously the trainer can't find what works for themselves... and I am not expecting Arnold S...

cod3man

Hey C_Health,

Good job on picking up the weights. From what you have written it would just be that you are simply sore from using your muscles and all the tissue around it like tendons, ligaments and crap- you are not sore the day after from lactic acid. You will only feel lactic acid when you are lifting or shortly after. Your muscles and ligaments will swell and thus pain- soreness. Which is why resting is quite essential, more so then eating protein shakes and such. If you do feel the muscle just stretching and burning you should stop. You could be getting tendonitis, or a tear in the muscle. It does take time to build up to a point where you can lift for over an hour and not injure yourself. It also takes time build up to training a body part multiple times a week. Try to much to soon and you will have to take time off because of injury/ strain.


Also don't ask anyone here about weight lifting- like someone else said go to bodybuilding forums, they can give you great advice. Like I always wonder when I am in the gym- why would a out of shape person hire another out of shape person to tell what works and what doesn't? Obviously the trainer can't find what works for themselves... and I am not expecting Arnold S...