Blood Doping Question
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Blood Doping Question
After hearing so much about blood doping in the Tour de France, I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge of what exactly blood doping is, how it is done, and how those athletes went about doing it?
Thanks
Thanks
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 524
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Wily Voet has a pretty good book on it, from what I understand.
Good luck finding it. I think Barnes and Noble had a copy or two in their old books section, but that was a few weeks ago.
Cole
Good luck finding it. I think Barnes and Noble had a copy or two in their old books section, but that was a few weeks ago.
Cole
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 604
Bikes: LeMond Zurich
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
A drug called EPO has been used by some cyclists. It increases, as I understand it, the number of red blood cells and thus the oxygen-carrying capacity of of the cardiovascular system. The downside, besides being illegal, is that it is very dangerous. It requires the constant monitoring of a doctor and must be used in conjunction with a blood thinner to prevent ischemic events such as stroke or heart attack.
__________________
I’m not familiar precisely with exactly what I said, but I stand by what I said whatever it was.
I’m not familiar precisely with exactly what I said, but I stand by what I said whatever it was.
#4
Castiron Perineum
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Taking a tip from Siu Blue Wind, I too am typing a lengthy passage of text down here to demonstrate the enormous amount of space available should one wish to use it-- in sharp contrast to the avatar text above this part.
Posts: 1,199
Bikes: '06 Salsa Campeon, '84 Cannondale R1000, 80's Nishiki Ariel
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 2,794
Bikes: litespeed, cannondale
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
"Blood doping" traditionally refers to an athelete donating blood. Then before an event the athelete receives a trasfusion of their own blood. The idea here is this gives them more red blood cells.
So why are having the red blood cells a good thing? Aerobic atheletic performance is generally limited by the amount of oxygen that the muscles get. The more red blood cells in the blood, the more oxygen delivered to the muscles.
Another method can be used. Quite some time ago Amgen developed a drug called Epogen that stimulates the body to produce red blood cells. The drug mimics the natural human hormone, erythropoitin, which stimulates red blood cell production. Amgen did not develop the drug to give atheletes an illegal performance boost. They developed it as a treatment for anemia which is often a side effect of chemotherapy that cancer patients get.
Epogen can be quite dangerous for cyclists to use. Think of the blood. Most of it is made up of red blood cells (think little balloons) and plasma (think dilute salt water). The heart is the pump and the veins and arteries are the pipes. So taking EPO will increase the concentration of red blood cells in the blood and increase the amount of oxygen a given amount of blood can carry. The problem comes when the cyclist sweats and gets a little dehydrated. That means the cyclist will have less plasma in the blood. It is quite easy using EPO (epogen) to have so many red blood cells in the blood that there is just enough plasma in the blood to keep the blood a fluid. The cyclist sweats and the blood turns from a fluid to just a sort of gel and the heart can not pump a gel. The cyclist dies of a massive cardiopulmonary failure. Interestingly enough, around a score of professional cyclists are thought to have perished this way.
So why are having the red blood cells a good thing? Aerobic atheletic performance is generally limited by the amount of oxygen that the muscles get. The more red blood cells in the blood, the more oxygen delivered to the muscles.
Another method can be used. Quite some time ago Amgen developed a drug called Epogen that stimulates the body to produce red blood cells. The drug mimics the natural human hormone, erythropoitin, which stimulates red blood cell production. Amgen did not develop the drug to give atheletes an illegal performance boost. They developed it as a treatment for anemia which is often a side effect of chemotherapy that cancer patients get.
Epogen can be quite dangerous for cyclists to use. Think of the blood. Most of it is made up of red blood cells (think little balloons) and plasma (think dilute salt water). The heart is the pump and the veins and arteries are the pipes. So taking EPO will increase the concentration of red blood cells in the blood and increase the amount of oxygen a given amount of blood can carry. The problem comes when the cyclist sweats and gets a little dehydrated. That means the cyclist will have less plasma in the blood. It is quite easy using EPO (epogen) to have so many red blood cells in the blood that there is just enough plasma in the blood to keep the blood a fluid. The cyclist sweats and the blood turns from a fluid to just a sort of gel and the heart can not pump a gel. The cyclist dies of a massive cardiopulmonary failure. Interestingly enough, around a score of professional cyclists are thought to have perished this way.
#6
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
What about anaerobic activities? Would blood doping aid in those cases as well, such as maximum strength ouput, etc., by giving you more oxygen available in the blood?
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NJ/NYC
Posts: 420
Bikes: 2008 Salsa Fargo
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm sure you guys know that but just to make sure: EPO or erythropoietin, isn't only a synthetic drug but also a natural hormone that our bodies can produce (in kidneys), under certain circumstances... I.e., if you go to altitude, the presence of this hormone in blood causes the bone marrow to start producing more red blood cells, and help you acclimatize... So any time, you find yourself on some of those high passes in Colorado, you'll become an "EPO factory"...
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 13,954
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 109 Times
in
78 Posts
The heart is the pump and the veins and arteries are the pipes. So taking EPO will increase the concentration of red blood cells in the blood and increase the amount of oxygen a given amount of blood can carry. The problem comes when the cyclist sweats and gets a little dehydrated. That means the cyclist will have less plasma in the blood. It is quite easy using EPO (epogen) to have so many red blood cells in the blood that there is just enough plasma in the blood to keep the blood a fluid. The cyclist sweats and the blood turns from a fluid to just a sort of gel and the heart can not pump a gel. The cyclist dies of a massive cardiopulmonary failure. Interestingly enough, around a score of professional cyclists are thought to have perished this way.
Elite cyclists have very low heart rates. Some have resting rates in the 20's BPM range. At elevated Hct. levels the blood becomes more viscous. At low heart rates the blood is moving so slow through the coronary arteries that micro clots form. These clots lead to ischemia (lack of oxygen) which in turn leads to an infarction (damaged tissue). Either of these events can lead to heart attack. Keep in mind that the UCI's cut off for Hct. is .50. normal lab range is as high as .52 depending on the reference used. Its a combination of low heart rates, increased viscosity and lower blood pressure while resting that cause elite cyclists to die. Have you noticed most die in their sleep?
#10
Just ride.
Originally Posted by Pat
Epogen can be quite dangerous for cyclists to use.
#11
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Venice, California
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by miamijim
Keep in mind that the UCI's cut off for Hct. is .50. normal lab range is as high as .52 depending on the reference used. Its a combination of low heart rates, increased viscosity and lower blood pressure while resting that cause elite cyclists to die. Have you noticed most die in their sleep?
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 13,954
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 109 Times
in
78 Posts
Sessamoid, I'm sure the UCI allows exemptions for cyclists who have established normal Hct's above .50. As you have, I to have seen many non-atheltes with Hct's above .50. The difference is these people have much higher resting heartrates and blood pressure. Higher heartrates and BP's mean the blood doesnt have have time to stagnate therefore micro-coaggulation doesnt occur.
#13
Stegosaurus
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Goa, India
Posts: 1,530
Bikes: 2004 Giant OCR-3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bikershark
What about anaerobic activities? Would blood doping aid in those cases as well, such as maximum strength ouput, etc., by giving you more oxygen available in the blood?
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
EPO takes away the burn associated with lactic acid which is when your muscles go anerbic , spelling ? or without oxigen . So imagine doing situps and never going aneroboc ? do you think you coud do more ? would this help weight lifters ? hehe
peace
jar
peace
jar
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Originally Posted by miamijim
Sessamoid, I'm sure the UCI allows exemptions for cyclists who have established normal Hct's above .50. As you have, I to have seen many non-atheltes with Hct's above .50. The difference is these people have much higher resting heartrates and blood pressure. Higher heartrates and BP's mean the blood doesnt have have time to stagnate therefore micro-coaggulation doesnt occur.
Koffee
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Desert
Posts: 271
Bikes: Colnago, GT Team
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jarhead#42
EPO takes away the burn associated with lactic acid which is when your muscles go anerbic , spelling ? or without oxigen . So imagine doing situps and never going aneroboc ? do you think you coud do more ? would this help weight lifters ? hehe
peace
jar
peace
jar
How can you go anerobic doing situps? and again your 500 situps is a waste of time! get a ab board with a decline and throw some weights on your chest. save some time and your hip flexars and get stronger at the same time.lay on your back hold both legs about 5 inches off the floor, your stomach will burn in time. are you anerobic at that point? ofcourse not.