levinskee

Hey all. I believe I'm overthinking this to a degree, but I've been having trouble finding the "magic number" for my calorie intake on lighter training days.

For the last 2-3 months I was in base training putting in 15-20hrs every week. Now I'm in the build period, starting some longer intervals and looking at 12-16hrs of training.

This last week I had a pretty light week, one hard interval session and some shorter rides. I have been absolutely starving. I have an incredibly clean diet, I track everything I eat and while I don't necessarily need to lose weight I sure as hell don't want to gain either (which I've never dealt with being overweight, so it's fairly irrational).

People think it's absurd that as a female I'm eating 2500kcal on off days (I've been trying to keep it around 2100-2200, but like I said, I'm so freaking hungry). Does this sound like a reasonable amount for my amount of training? I'm 5'4", 127lbs, 16% body fat.

I just want to be comfortable with my consumption and fuel my body properly. If I'm feeling tired and lacking energy quite frequently, I'm sure it's a result of my fuel intake given I've had adequate rest off the bike.

gregf83 

If you're hungry on your light days I would be looking at what you are eating on your work days. As you increase the intensity of your workouts you will be burning more carbs. If they don't get fully replenished on the days you are working you'll be hungry the next day.

How are you estimating your caloric requirements? Do you use a powermeter?

Rowan

My suggestion is to increase your protein intake after your sessions, and moreso after the intense ones.

Looigi

FWIW: I found it much easier to eat the same amount every day than eat more on training days and less on rest days during routine training. I gorge less on riding days and get much less ravenous on rest days. For example, I figure 1800 x 7 days + 600 cal/hr x 10 hrs training/wk is 2650/day. I do play with the timing a bit to ensure enough energy for training, and try to east some protein and carbs soon after riding to assist with recovery, but still stick with the daily calorie limit. I do jack up the calories appropriately ahead of big rides or races.

hueyhoolihan

when i reach a certain weight and am still riding 25-35 miles everyday, i'm ALWAYS hungry.

when i stop in starbucks and order a coffee, and they inevitably ask me if i would like a pastry. i glance over at the confections behind the glass and it takes everything i have to not say something like, "yes, please give me EVERYTHING ON THE ENTIRE TIER", or something like that.

levinskee

Thanks for the responses.

-i do use a power meter. Beyond riding I am moving around all the time so I figure a base requirement of 1600ish (1400 for my rmr on top of every day activities and then riding). -i have a fairly high protein intake for an endurance athlete. I do a protein shake (brown rice and pea protein) after rides in addition to lean protein and eggs with almost every meal. I'm assuming I get between 75-110g a day.

I think the point about eating the same amount every day makes sense. I never really gorge after rides unless it wasover 4 or 5 hours. You're all probably right, I eat on workout days generally due to time.

For example, I have had roughly 2000 calories today and I burned 1400 during my workout and then had to rush to class, etc.

Our bodies are smart, and I'm sure the hunger is a response to hard training and my body wants the fuel to recover to. I feel like a lot of cyclists tend to underestimate their calorie needs when they're in heavy training (and conversely you have those who way over estimate...)

Carbonfiberboy 

Another one for increasing protein intake and maybe fat, too. Put more slow burning stuff on the fire. I just weigh myself and watch my fat percentage. I never count calories in or out. I figure my body does that a lot better than I ever could. If I'm losing weight and strength, I give myself more recovery and eat more. If I gain weight, I eat smaller meals. I never change the amount I eat on the bike. Counting a recovery drink, but not counting eating on the bike, I have something to eat 7 times/day on average. I mess with composition and timing so that I'm almost never hungry. Hungry is deadly for me - I overeat every time. Overeating is what puts on the fat. But hungry means that your blood sugar is low and that's not good. Your body can't scavenge for glycogen if blood sugar is low. Glycogen replacement is what makes me hungry. I just keep dribbling in small amounts of carb and a little protein, maybe a little fat, until I feel OK.

Looigi

Agree. I find eating protein and some fat very helpful. Just gotta be careful on the associated calories as these are often associated with calorie dense foods.

levinskee

Ironically my sports nutritionist always struggled to get me to eat more carbs. I definitely focus on protein and fat when I'm hungry off the bike. I did the whole paleo thing too and honestly it yielded the same results with less energy.

FWIW, I have a long past of disordered eating and really damaged my metabolism so last year I started eating upwards of 3000kcal a day and lost about 6 pounds in several weeks. I'm just not sure where my metabolism normalized per se.

Thanks again for the responses

mr_pedro

Yes you are overthinking it. Give yourself a range around your target weight and as long as you feel good and the weight stays in that range, just follow your appetite. Counting calories is only required if following your appetite doesn't work. I had to count calories a while back in order to loose some weight, but I found that after doing that for a while it is as if my system got a reset and I can now just follow my appetite again.

DataJunkie

I can't seem to stop counting as my appetite seems to know no bounds. That and being a vegetarian I find watching how many grams I consume of protein to be useful.

37 year old male, 5'10" 150 lbs, and I train 10-15 hours a week mostly on a trainer. I believe my calories tend to fall around 2500 a day. My tracking app says 2000 for rest days but I can't eat that small of an amount of food.
I am pondering heading up to 3000 on non rest days and adding a bit on rest days as I am still having recovery issues.

levinskee

So, now I'm starting to back track and answer my own question but I think when I said that cyclists in moderate-to-heavy training underestimate their needs, this is a good example.

Plugging in your stats for someone with a "sedentary" lifestyle yields a daily need of 1,970. That's assuming no extra movement beyond a desk job, for example. Then, let's assume you burn 600 calories an hour (presumptuous, but seems like a fair middle ground). An average of 12hrs/week of training+burning 600 kcal per hour=7200kcal.
7200/7=~1028.5 ON TOP of your BMR (of course your BMR would be more if you spend time doing other physical activities throughout the day, but this is the bare minimum for everyone, unless you're in a COMA, in which case you would burn 1934.

So, 1934+1028=2998.

EDIT: I know these numbers are not concrete due to a million factors such as metabolism, thermal effect of food, blah blah blah etc. But it's a base nonetheless.

I've used the above information for myself and it's undoubtedly helpful, I think why I am struggling is because I am quite active throughout the day (physical job, commute by bike, walk a lot, etc) but I always use my sedentary BMR+exercise calories just to be sure I don't go overboard. I never over eat, I measure nearly all my portions, and I never eat anything unhealthy.

I think the issue just lies in finding a comfortable number so I optimally recover, especially as the season gets closer, and that seems to be needing more fuel.

mr_pedro

In your example you need to divide by 7 days and not 12 hours to get the daily requirement.

DataJunkie

I grossly underestimated the importance of recovery last year. As the season wore on and on combined with my training load things were not pretty.
It took most of the off season to recover from it. While taking whey protein has improved my recovery things still aren't quite right. Improving... yes but still not there. I expect this is one of the issues. It is rather difficult to force someone who was overweight to eat more.

levinskee

A-ha. You're right, good catch. Edited. Which yields an even greater avg intake to pay attention to!

DataJunkie

Oooo.... more food.

Carbonfiberboy 

If your sport nutritionist said eat more carbs, she's probably right. Dribble them in. Maybe you're hungry because you're shorting your body on carbs. OTOH, if you feel strong and can climb hard, maybe not.