invisiblehand

I was just looking at the specs again ... the flanges are symmetric such that the rear wheel is dishless?

At least, that is what it looks like here ...

Also comes with a disc brake option ...

The only thing that makes me hesitate is its weight. No one has ever called me a weight weenie -- at least not seriously -- but there are times I would like to ride the bike for recreational purposes; i.e., picnic basket + blanket, riding with some slower buds and providing SAG, and so on. Maybe it is just a simple predjudice that I can't get my mind around ... but a reported 11 pounds seems relatively heavy compared to the alternatives.

I guess a 40-pound bike really isn't that different from a 35-pound bike.

What are the best prices out there? I find $400 with a quick web search.

Allen

It's THIS, a Giant Twist/Lite. The electrics are made by Panasonic, 350 watt motor, NiMH battery, and no throttle. There is a pressure sensor (of sorts) in the bottom bracket; the harder you step on the pedals, the more juice from the motor.
After about 16 mph (with the hub in it's tallest gear{range}) the motor slacks off, and if you want to go faster than that you have to do so with muscle alone.

Yep, 400 pounds, four bags @ 50 lbs each on either side of the wide loaders, and band straps holding them up and on. Normally my battery is good for about 20-25 miles, I carried my spare with me, popped it in right before I left the nursery and it was all but flat by the time I got home.

My Xtracycle creeks and rattles more than I do now. I've gotten more than my money's worth out of my Xtracycle and Giant, but they are well on the way to being ridden into the ground.

Rob_E

Yes, I've been thinking about an IGH for my next bike, but as it's primarily going to be a commuter with maybe some short tours, I pretty much ruled out the Nuvinci based on weight. But if I were building up something as a serious utility bike, I don't think the weight would bother me. I figure anytime I'm not loaded up with crap the bike is going to seem lighter, whether I have a ten pound hub or not.

surfimp

Wow, it is quite heavy: around 4300g, or 9.5 lbs, according to this PDF from the Fallbrook Technologies website. That does give one pause for thought.

Of course, if you're going with electric assist, you're going full "supertanker" anyways so it's probably not as much of an issue.

But for a purely human powered rig, one has to wonder if the Rohloff (at 1700-1800g / 4 lbs.) or the Nexus 8 (at 1600g / 3.5 lbs.) doesn't start to sound a bit more appealing. Or even a typical derailleur setup which I guess runs around 1300-1400g / 3 lbs.

I'd be interested to know how many Nexus 8s have been destroyed in purely human powered (not electric assist), on-road cargo applications, i.e. on bakfiets and similar. For some reason (wishful thinking?) I suspect it's not too many

Steve

Val

The published weight of 9.5 lbs is for the original version of the hub, the 07 model, that is. For 08, the shell has been machined a bit more and the weight is down (!) to 8 lbs. To someone used to comapring weights of bicycle components, this seems astronomically heavy, but this is all a matter of perspective. First, this is a Utility Cycling thread, right? We are all here because we are planning to actually use the bikes to haul stuff. When you head to the grocery store, you don't pick up a bag of flour, read the label and say to yourself "Ten pounds - no way, I can't carry that." You don't go to the hardware store and choose a ladder based on its weight. The question is not simply how much something weighs, but what that weight does for you. In this case, it gives you a hub that will hold up to the worst abuse that I and Allen G (in our selfless efforts to test things for everyone) have been able to dish out, while allowing you to fine tune your gear ratio under any conditions, for about 1/3 the price of the Rohloff. It is definitely not for everyone, but for me, the function and durability more than justify the weight. Look here for another impression of one on a bike which is normal and light enough for the weight to be more of an issue: [B]https://tinyurl.com/3lgur3 The Bike Commuter boys actually have several posts about it, if you browse around in there. Second, it is important to remember that bikes roll. As Utility cyclists, most of us probably do very little carrying of our bikes anyway, and we should be in the vanguard of the shift in attitude about bike weight that is beginning to happen here: https://tinyurl.com/5o3ook Wheels make it easy. Oh, yes, I almost forgot: it is indeed a symmetrical hub, so the wheel winds up being very strong. Cheers!

invisiblehand

I don't disagree with you Val ... I think you have excellent points. Just not too sure whether the Nuvinci is the best fit for my purposes.

Then again, I have time to think about it!

badmother

I am thinking of doing something to the gearing of my longtail. Did 40 km on it today, me, my 26 kg dog (he was riding with me for approx 20 km) plus some chlotes. This is what I normally carry.

I find it difficult to get a good chainline with a normal 3 x 7 setup. Also I worry the rear wheel is not strong enough, I am afraid spokes is going to start breaking.

I`we got a Shimano 7 wheel lying around I could use, but worry since I read that they can break.

Also I am thinking of using a 3 speed hub with 2 rear chainwheels (and a shifter for it), and 3 in front. That should be 3 x 2 x 3 = 18, did not look into range and overlap yet. Somebody said three speed hubs are much stronger than 7 and 8 gearhubs. Anyone tryed this? Suggestions?

JeffS

yuk

dwnptrl_777

[/QUOTE]

If I still hit the weed, I could see myself burning a fat hunk of cheeba and staring at that for an hour or three...

Allen

By the time you are done, I think you would have come out cheeper and easier to just use a NuVinci, or a Nexus. I also expect you would have considerable gear overlap.

One of the (IMO great) advantages of an internal hub is the less wear and tear on the drive train compared to a derailer system. A derailer's chain is good for 2K-ish miles, I've gotten as many as 8K miles before my Salsa's chain was stretched enough to be changed. An IHG's cog and chain ring will last longer as well because of the straight chain line too.

Allen

https://youtube.com/watch?v=zBsxqQIu_...eature=related
^^^
When you decide to fall of the wagon, that's funnier.

dwnptrl_777

Mmhmm...Good pick, AllenG. This is another trippy one (turn up your sound):

https://www.zannel.com/viewupdate.htm?id=RKJ3SJ6DH3

badmother

My worry on the present setup is I think the chain is rubbing in some of the gear combo`s. That means breaking MUCh faster than any other setup. Buying a new chain is not my main worry, but the chain breaking on the road. I`d hate that since my trips is getting longer and longer. I think I am going to try the Nexus. Easyest solution.

I like some troubel,but not too much

badmother

Sixty Fiver did this https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/398693-another-damn-twenty-thread-twist.html on a R20. He stayed with one chainring in front, but then a R20 has got a much shorter chain. I am sure that two rings in the front is plenty enough. The "granny" would not be used.

The way I ride i am not looking for a lot of close gears but a wide range of them.

Dan Burkhart 

Here is a weight comparison between a Nuvinci built into Sun Rynolite rim
https://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=...&capwidth=true
https://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=...&capwidth=true

And a Rohloff in a heavy downhill rim
https://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=...&capwidth=true
https://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=...&capwidth=true
Think I'll be stickin with my Rohloffs fer now.

penexpers

Dan : would you be able to ship a NuVinci hub to Ireland? I'm still having real trouble sourcing one, no-one has responded to any of my e-mails yet.

Thanks.

Allen

Try Ben Cooper the proprietor of https://www.kinetics.org.uk/ . He's in Scotland, but deals with bicycle esoterica.

penexpers

I sent him a quick e-mail last week and he hasn't replied. I understand that he might be busy but I would have expected a response by now.

Dan Burkhart 

I do not currently have a direct source for NuVinci.
You might give these guys a try.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/nuvinci.html

cman

Besides weight and the gripshift, can someone bring up any cons on the Nuvinci? I really like the thought of this hub, I just want to be sure on my purchase.

Allen

I don't see the grip shifter as a con. It has an excellent feel, to me second only to my Rohloffs' shifter feel.

Weight and size (makes triple cross lacing dodgy to me--although my giant is triple laced and still true) are the only caveats I've found.

tfahrner

I'm not super impressed with the feel and value of the NuVinci relative to Nexus 8/Alfine. I've put a couple hundred miles on one on a bakfiets, that previously had a Nexus 8. I have many thousands of miles on multiple Rohloff hubs -- those are indeed best, but overkill for many people's needs. Nuvinci isn't bad, but I'm not sold that the extra cost and weight is worth the minor increase in gear range versus Nexus 8 (350% v 305%), at least not in all cases.

Just as with most bike transmissions, you need to let up a bit to change gear on a NuVinci. This goes counter to what I'd hoped/expected to be a selling point of a CVT: no pause in pedaling effort as you dial in the right ratio. In practice, you let up, grab a handful of shifter and twist, and then resume pushing to assess whether the new ratio feels right. Just like an indexed system. So I'm left thinking ... "continuously variable, except under full load, when it would actually be useful..." And it takes several handfuls of shifter to traverse the 350% range, more hand motion for less difference relative to either Nexus 8 (twist) or Rohloff.

The Nuvinci shifter itself feels too light and squishy to inspire confidence of long life. The rubber is too soft, and as I keep wanting to be able to shift under more than trivial load, I tend to grip it hard to overcome the resistance as I taper off my pedaling effort; this causes the rubber to pull away from the plastic barrel and deforms the barrel enough to add plastic-on-plastic friction to the resistance the cables are putting up from the hub. I've wondered whether the nicely machined Rohloff shifter would be a compatible substitute.

vik 

How do you feel about the durability of the Nuvinci relative to the other IGH options for use in cargo bikes?

tfahrner

I don't have enough experience with it to say for sure, but consulting intuition, the hub seems quite durable in design and execution, probably moreso than Nexus 8/Alfine.

The Nexus gearhub family got a bad rap about durability and/or efficiency when their 4- and 7-speed hubs were up, especially in cargo and electric assist applications. Nexus 8, perhaps counterintuitively since more gears means more fiddly inside, seems much better. They are new enough, however, that the bell curve of their real-world service life isn't yet clear.

We've sold around 200 Nexus-8-equipped cargo bikes over the last 16 months, mostly the basic, not the premium "red band" version. 3-4 hubs have had problems not attributable to basic neglect/abuse (e.g., riding hard with shifter way out of adjustment); Shimano has just replaced the internals in these cases. Sometimes a pronounced roughness occurs in gears 4 and 8. We have found that a certain retaining clip inside slipping is to blame, but we don't yet know whether simply re-seating the retaining clip is more than a quick fix; i.e., we don't know why the clip slips in the first place. Ask in another year :-)

vik 

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your comments as you have enough data points to see statistically valid trends that us "normal" folk cannot using one or two IGH at a time. I'd certainly be interested in updates as you get more data...