Helmet Head

No way to know. The removal of one contributory factor among others does not mean the crash would necessarily have been prevented. All we can say is that the crash would have been less likely to occur, to some unknown degree. I believe the magnitude of that degree to be significant. Reasonable people may disagree.

No. At least in this case it's compensating for normal expected behavior given the circumstances, not "lack of good driving habits". But "compensating for the lack of good driving habits by motorists" is a good habit too, though not relevant in this case.


There is no evidence that the motorist actually sped up to pass the cyclist.

I was driven to lunch yesterday by a colleague who avoided entering even empty dashed bike lanes at all right turns, in a state where doing so is required by law. Is this a "bad habit" on the part of this particular motorist, or is it typical expected normal driver behavior? Isn't it really a "bad habit" on the part of traffic engineers who paint bike lane stripes all the way up to intersections despite the fact that the vast majority of drivers, even police officers, naturally and rationally avoid entering delineated road space that is too narrow for a car to fit?

SSP

Classic.

FWIW, Shakespeare once noted that "brevity is the soul of wit".

SSP

I don't find that they "inhibit" me in any such fashion.

I'll use BL's when they're present (and appreciate them for the space they allow me), and move out of them whenever it's in my interest to do so. I think most experienced cyclists do the same.

genec

If you were driven to lunch in this city, then the bike lanes were dashed before the major intersections, and your colleague doesn't understand the dashing that is seen on EVERY merge ramp in this state... that is a limitation of your colleague's driving knowlege, and should be rectified.

As far as bad behaviour being accepted as normal behaviour... yes in that, you are correct... however, just like bad behaviour in a child, it should not be tolerated in adult motorists either.

sbhikes

Just as I suspected. HH bumps his bike lane deaths thread any time anybody posts anything regarding bike lanes and accidents.

Motorists simply do not know how to drive. It makes no difference whether you're discussing bike lanes or merging on the freeway, they just don't know how to do it. Nor do they know how to drive 25 in a school zone or use turn signals or stop at stop signs. It's as simple as that. Nothing to do with bike lanes or "expected behavior" or whatever. It's just ignorance run rampant.

Helmet Head

In this one the cyclist was on the shoulder, not in a bike lane.
Also, it's not a death, but close enough.

https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/265283-cyclists-ask-more-space-oregon-roads.html

https://www.oregonnews.com/article/20.../NEWS/70130003

https://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/...rylist=orlocal

Bekologist

yeah, yeah, mr super cyclist. its almost as if helmet wants riders to die in bike lanes..... "not a death, but close enough?" DESPICABLE! dude wasn't even in the bike lane, nor did he persish.

galen_52657

And the list keeps growing....

https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/278410-tragedy-solana-beach.html

John E

See my thread regarding "tragedy in Solana Beach." Yes, this is yet another inadvertent drift into the bike lane, but it also appears to be a DWI.

I-Like-To-Bike

Makes your day, doesn't it? Maybe this will be a good day for ghouls and you can Google up another DWI victim before the sun sets.

galen_52657

Nobody is happy about it. I guess you would prefer that she got hit and killed on the open road?

Helmet Head

Motorist distracted by a bee veers into bike lane and kills cyclist.
Is it a coincidence that he veered into the bike lane instead of the adjacent traffic lane?
Or, because of the bike lane stripe arguably making the cyclist's presence irrelevant to the motorist, was the motorist inattentionally blind to the cyclist up ahead in the bike lane as he was approaching from behind, and, so, he veered into what he thought was an empty bike lane?

Article:
https://www.komotv.com/news/local/7806087.html

Main thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/305593-bee-flies-into-car-driver-veers-into-bike-lane-kills-cyclist.html

randya

^^yeah, sure, it's the bike lane's fault.

Helmet Head

^^yeah, sure, it's just another cowinky-dink.

natelutkjohn

Maybe he was distracted by a bee and veered his car - maybe he hit his steering wheel and accidentally went right rather then left - do you wear a foil hat at night when you sleep?

zeytoun

What should the cyclist have done to prevent his death, HH?

SSP

Oooh-oooh! I know!!

As everyone knows, "the cyclist should have been riding centered in the lane".

From this position, the cyclist could have distracted the bee, thus preventing it from flying into the overtaking driver's window in the first place.

And even if the bee was still determined to fly into the motorist's window, by riding in the middle of the road, the panicking driver would have careened harmlessly to the right of the cyclist.

Either way, it clearly illustrates that the cyclist was ultimately at fault, and was thus responsible for his own demise.

SSP

Sometimes, Professor Freud, a cigar is just a smoke.

Helmet Head

Who knows?

But I do believe his chances of not getting hit would have been better had he been riding in the traffic lane up ahead as the motorist was approaching, thus making his presence more likely to be noticed, before moving into the bike lane. Then, while the driver was distracted by the bee, he might have been at least as concerned about staying out of the bike lane as he was probably concerned about staying out of the adjacent traffic lane.

Helmet Head

Let me put my point in terms of these questions:

1) Do you think the motorist was aware of the cyclist's presence in the bike lane moments before he was distracted by the bee?

2) Assuming the motorist was aware of the cyclist's presence in the bike lane moments before he was distracted by the bee, do you think he instantly became unaware of the cyclist and, so, forget he was there when he swerved into him, or do you think he swerved out of control and was just as likely to have swerved the other way?

3) Assuming the motorist was not aware of the cyclist's presence in the bike lane moments before he was distracted by the bee, what do you think the cyclist could have done, if anything, to significantly increase the chances of the motorist being aware of him, and, would riding up ahead in his path probably have accomplished that?

The Human Car

Don’t you get it? The government paid money to study how bees fly, how to genetically manipulate bees and the effectiveness of bike lanes. If this doesn’t prove that there is a Government Conspiracy and they are out to get us I don’t know what will.

Paid for by the Illuminati Society

randya

no, no, no, you haven't learned anything! It was the bike lane's fault!!!

SSP

Probably a case of "shared liability" between the cyclist and the bike lane.

FWIW, given that the driver was a 17 year old, and he was accompanied by his 18 year old girlfriend, I doubt there was any bee involved at all. The bee was probably manufactured for the accident report, because the kid was too freaked out to tell the truth - that he'd been groping his girlfriend, or just screwing around and not paying attention. That's one reason why many states now have restrictions on kids driving around with kids.

rando

that guy shouldn't have been on the road or in the bike lane at all. he should have been on the sidewalk, where it's safe.

zeytoun

I don't know. I wasn't there.

However, I do know that a sudden out-of-control swerve is plausible. See here:
https://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...7-1352640.html

The driver was likely not "unaware" of the presence of other cars on the road in the story I linked to.

Centerish lane position is just one technique. It may or may not have had any use in this situation.