Forester takes on BF Posters
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Forester takes on BF Posters
On his web site that is.
https://johnforester.com/Articles/Soc...Advocacies.htm See paragraph 2 & 3.
Nothing like a one sided debate, Forester style. What a guy!
https://johnforester.com/Articles/Soc...Advocacies.htm See paragraph 2 & 3.
Nothing like a one sided debate, Forester style. What a guy!
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
On his web site that is.
https://johnforester.com/Articles/Soc...Advocacies.htm See paragraph 2 & 3.
Nothing like a one sided debate, Forester style. What a guy!
https://johnforester.com/Articles/Soc...Advocacies.htm See paragraph 2 & 3.
Nothing like a one sided debate, Forester style. What a guy!
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Originally Posted by kalliergo
Actually, Forester quotes extensively from the statements and arguments quoted here, which he then responds to quite succinctly. Nothing "one sided" about it.
No surprise you are the first to respond to defend the Great One, you are tuned right in to the Master, ain't ya?
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John-boy sure doesn't like ILTB.
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"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen
Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen
Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
#5
Raising the Abyss
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
On his web site that is.
https://johnforester.com/Articles/Soc...Advocacies.htm See paragraph 2 & 3.
Nothing like a one sided debate, Forester style. What a guy!
https://johnforester.com/Articles/Soc...Advocacies.htm See paragraph 2 & 3.
Nothing like a one sided debate, Forester style. What a guy!
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"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
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Originally Posted by rando
John-boy sure doesn't like ILTB.
Make no mistake, ILTB's perspective about vehicular cycling is colored by very personal matters.
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Originally Posted by rando
John-boy sure doesn't like ILTB.
He doesn't like anyone to tip over his house of cards or to call a statistical charlatan, a statistical charlatan. And he has apoplectic fits when his sophomoric so-called risk analysis and tests are revealed for exactly what they are - biased fabrications and statistical crap.
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head
.
Make no mistake, ILTB's perspective about vehicular cycling is colored by very personal matters.
Make no mistake, ILTB's perspective about vehicular cycling is colored by very personal matters.
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
The gored sacred cow is obnoxious ain't he!
He doesn't like anyone to tip over his house of cards or to call a statistical charlatan, a statistical charlatan. And he has apoplectic fits when his sophomoric so-called risk analysis and tests are revealed for exactly what they are - biased fabrications and statistical crap.
He doesn't like anyone to tip over his house of cards or to call a statistical charlatan, a statistical charlatan. And he has apoplectic fits when his sophomoric so-called risk analysis and tests are revealed for exactly what they are - biased fabrications and statistical crap.
Is that right? Who told you?
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I consider myself to be fairly well educated, having a post graduate degree and all, but I could barely understand half of that. I'm not necessarily knocking the man's ideas (i'm not sure I understand them yet), but as far as debating style and response to criticism, he talks in circles.
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head
See, it's objective analysis. It's not a personal vendetta or anything like that.
Like you don't make it blatantly obvious that you have a personal vendetta against John Forester?
Like you don't make it blatantly obvious that you have a personal vendetta against John Forester?
Strictly the facts, Jack. It is YOU and the other Foresterites who believe that the facts and truth are a personal attack on your cherished beliefs.
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Originally Posted by skanking biker
I consider myself to be fairly well educated, having a post graduate degree and all, but I could barely understand half of that. I'm not necessarily knocking the man's ideas (i'm not sure I understand them yet), but as far as debating style and response to criticism, he talks in circles.
If you don't do the work, it might seem like he's talking in circles.
But if you do the work, the objective analysis, usually you'll find he's on pretty solid ground.
But because so few are willing to do that work, it's easy to criticize what he's saying.
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Sorry, that pig don't fly.
Strictly the facts, Jack. It is YOU and the other Foresterites who believe that the facts and truth are a personal attack on your cherished beliefs.
Strictly the facts, Jack. It is YOU and the other Foresterites who believe that the facts and truth are a personal attack on your cherished beliefs.
#14
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I saw that. I don't think I like being characterized as "anti-motorist." I also don't like the California centric viewpoint, that the environment was designed for cars only, and cyclists just have to deal. Not all places are as autocentric as California. And in many places where cycling for transportation has been encouraged, lo and behold, the number of cyclists on the streets goes up! How does J. Forester reconcile that amongst his theory that cycling will always be unpopular and basically without merit as a serious transportational option?
Mr. Forester has thrown in his towel in resignation for cycling advocacy. I think he is getting old and pessimistic. He spoke at that convention, under the exact auspices that we feared: as a pro-motorist who happens to bike. According to his worldview, cycling will always be second best to the car, always fighting for space on the road and to be left alone against the encroaching auto-centric society. I've seen this sentiment in other emails he has posted on chainguard. I think he has come full circle and is not a cycling advocate anymore. He just wants to be left alone. He'll adapt to the changing and more auto-centric road environment (in California, at least) as long as he can, and all others can just f-ck themselves.
Mr. Forester has thrown in his towel in resignation for cycling advocacy. I think he is getting old and pessimistic. He spoke at that convention, under the exact auspices that we feared: as a pro-motorist who happens to bike. According to his worldview, cycling will always be second best to the car, always fighting for space on the road and to be left alone against the encroaching auto-centric society. I've seen this sentiment in other emails he has posted on chainguard. I think he has come full circle and is not a cycling advocate anymore. He just wants to be left alone. He'll adapt to the changing and more auto-centric road environment (in California, at least) as long as he can, and all others can just f-ck themselves.
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Originally Posted by kalliergo
Actually, Forester quotes extensively from the statements and arguments quoted here, which he then responds to quite succinctly. Nothing "one sided" about it.
Quite cowardly in my opinion. If he wishes to debate members of this forum he should do so from inside the forum instead of sending his "minions" here to do his bidding.
Additionally, he may be infringing upon the rights of this forums owners and members by quoting them on another site without their consent.
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Originally Posted by ILTB
Is that right? Who told you?
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Like you don't make it blatantly obvious that you have a personal vendetta against John Forester?
Again, ridicule, name-calling, bullying -- none of these are convincing arguments for anything and don't contribute to the discussion. If the operators of this forum were serious about the "Forum Guidelines," this sort of thing would be weeded out.
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That's hilarious! The great scientist in his own mind even got in a comment about the Cyclist Inferiority Phobia.
John Forester's website is one of the funniest websites I've ever seen in my life - a true "Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science" classic.
John Forester
Advocacy at its best.
This thread will probably be:
John Forester's website is one of the funniest websites I've ever seen in my life - a true "Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science" classic.
John Forester
- What a scientist!
- What a class act!
Advocacy at its best.
This thread will probably be:
- very funny
- very hostile
- very long OR
- shut down by the mods
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Originally Posted by celticfrost
ha ha ha... he pwn3d you guys.
#19
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Actually, I saw his CG letter.
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"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#20
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Originally Posted by JRA
Advocacy at its best.
This thread will probably be:
This thread will probably be:
- very funny
- very hostile
- very long OR
- shut down by the mods
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
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Originally Posted by deputyjones
How do you not see that quoting and responding on a static HTML page is not "one-sided"?
Originally Posted by deputyjones
Quite cowardly in my opinion. If he wishes to debate members of this forum he should do so from inside the forum instead of sending his "minions" here to do his bidding.
I'm getting really tired of this childish name-calling, DJ. I am, decidedly, not anyone's minion. If you knew me, as opposed to having simplistically categorized me, you would be in no doubt of that fact.
What is it with the adolescent gang mentality that prevails here? Did you people all beat up kids who "dressed funny" in junior high? Did you feel proud of yourselves when you did?
Originally Posted by deputyjones
Additionally, he may be infringing upon the rights of this forums owners and members by quoting them on another site without their consent.
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
On his web site that is.
https://johnforester.com/Articles/Soc...Advocacies.htm See paragraph 2 & 3.
Nothing like a one sided debate, Forester style. What a guy!
https://johnforester.com/Articles/Soc...Advocacies.htm See paragraph 2 & 3.
Nothing like a one sided debate, Forester style. What a guy!
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Originally Posted by John Forester
The rest of society, be they motorists on the road, highway engineers in their offices and on the highway, legislators in their halls, and just plain people, should treat cyclists with the same care and consideration that they treat other drivers of vehicles.
#25
Part-time epistemologist
I have to check out his responses. Although it would make more sense if he responded directly to the forum.
Then again, it might not be as productive.
At least we know he reads other people's opinions.
By the way, we sold our place in DC and are now looking for another place to live. Then comes the "exciting" part of actually moving. Apologies for my discontinuous participation. I hope no questions or statements directed to me were unanswered.
Then again, it might not be as productive.
At least we know he reads other people's opinions.
By the way, we sold our place in DC and are now looking for another place to live. Then comes the "exciting" part of actually moving. Apologies for my discontinuous participation. I hope no questions or statements directed to me were unanswered.