Deep powder
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 108
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From: Bemidji, MN
Bikes: Surly LHT
Deep powder
Good morning all,
Living in Northern lower Michigan I'm used to what is referred to as "lake effect snow." It never really stops until spring. Eventually this snow completely covers the MUP I'm used to traveling in about a foot or more. This year as I'm sure many of the readers of this forum did as well, we were hit early on with a nasty winter storm. This has covered the path already, and made it unusable. I think.
The snow is relatively light, and fluffy. Unfortunately in many places it comes up to above the hub of my wheels, and seems to stop me in my tracks without fail. I've tried to shift down to my lowest gear and spin through the snow, but I'm not getting more than a few feet.
There's plenty of experience in this forum, and I wonder if anyone has any suggestions for riding technique to cut through it. Skipping out to the road is a poor solution as the roads are frequently poorly plowed, and even if I can remain upright, and believe as hard as I can that I have the right to the road, I simply don't trust the cars on the highways I would have to navigate to my destination. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
If it helps, my winter beater is a modified MTB running 26x2.1 studded tires.
Have a great one out there!
Living in Northern lower Michigan I'm used to what is referred to as "lake effect snow." It never really stops until spring. Eventually this snow completely covers the MUP I'm used to traveling in about a foot or more. This year as I'm sure many of the readers of this forum did as well, we were hit early on with a nasty winter storm. This has covered the path already, and made it unusable. I think.
The snow is relatively light, and fluffy. Unfortunately in many places it comes up to above the hub of my wheels, and seems to stop me in my tracks without fail. I've tried to shift down to my lowest gear and spin through the snow, but I'm not getting more than a few feet.
There's plenty of experience in this forum, and I wonder if anyone has any suggestions for riding technique to cut through it. Skipping out to the road is a poor solution as the roads are frequently poorly plowed, and even if I can remain upright, and believe as hard as I can that I have the right to the road, I simply don't trust the cars on the highways I would have to navigate to my destination. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
If it helps, my winter beater is a modified MTB running 26x2.1 studded tires.
Have a great one out there!
#2
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 225
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From: Québec, Québec, Canada
Bikes: Fuji Touring 64cm, Peugeot Canada PB-18 61cm and winter beaters
Well, here are two extreme strategies. Each has their proponents.
The first is to use very narrow tires. Think 700x23 racing or 700x30 cyclocross. The narrower the tire, the less snow it has to cut through. Slippery, yes, but since you're plowing way less snow, the effort needed to go forward is much lower. Now, this only works if the tire can bottom out on a hard surface, for example a road. If you have a foot of powder on top of a hard road, then narrow tires would work best.
Now, the other extreme is to use very wide tires. Think 3.7" wide with special extra-wide rims. Then, you can run very low tire pressures, and you won't sink nearly as much. Of course, when it comes to deep powder, even those tires won't be able to float. When the snow gets more compact they'd work well, but if you have a foot of fluffy powder on top, you'll end up having to plow 3.7" of it away.
And then there are even more extreme solutions, like the K-trak

Of course, the K-trak has serious downsides, like the cost, the inability to go on roads, and the very slow speed unless you're going downhill.
In some terrain, the bike just isn't the right solution.
Snowshoes or skis may be more appropriate if you won't go on the road.
Roads, as poorly plowed as they may be, can certainly be crossed by bikes in the winter. MUPs covered by deep snow, that's another story...
The first is to use very narrow tires. Think 700x23 racing or 700x30 cyclocross. The narrower the tire, the less snow it has to cut through. Slippery, yes, but since you're plowing way less snow, the effort needed to go forward is much lower. Now, this only works if the tire can bottom out on a hard surface, for example a road. If you have a foot of powder on top of a hard road, then narrow tires would work best.
Now, the other extreme is to use very wide tires. Think 3.7" wide with special extra-wide rims. Then, you can run very low tire pressures, and you won't sink nearly as much. Of course, when it comes to deep powder, even those tires won't be able to float. When the snow gets more compact they'd work well, but if you have a foot of fluffy powder on top, you'll end up having to plow 3.7" of it away.
And then there are even more extreme solutions, like the K-trak
Of course, the K-trak has serious downsides, like the cost, the inability to go on roads, and the very slow speed unless you're going downhill.
In some terrain, the bike just isn't the right solution.
Snowshoes or skis may be more appropriate if you won't go on the road.
Roads, as poorly plowed as they may be, can certainly be crossed by bikes in the winter. MUPs covered by deep snow, that's another story...
#4
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,556
Likes: 1
From: Boston
I doubt a Pugsley would go through that stuff. This super light snow is so light that my bike has enough weight to sink almost to the bottom. Pugsley tires are only twice as wide, I see no reason to think that they'll keep 10 times the weight half as deep.
Do you have roads that you can use? Clearly your city doesn't think plowing bike trails is necessary. You might tell them you disagree and see if you can find anyone else to come forward. Plowing bike trails is far from unheard of.
I should point out, your snow may very well be very different from what we got. But we also got some lightweight snow and it's a bit over a foot deep on average with lots of drift effect.
Do you have roads that you can use? Clearly your city doesn't think plowing bike trails is necessary. You might tell them you disagree and see if you can find anyone else to come forward. Plowing bike trails is far from unheard of.
I should point out, your snow may very well be very different from what we got. But we also got some lightweight snow and it's a bit over a foot deep on average with lots of drift effect.
Last edited by crhilton; 12-11-09 at 12:57 PM. Reason: added last paragraph
#5
Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 44
Likes: 11
From: Minneapolis
Bikes: Summer 82 Ross SG Tour IV Winter 85 Ross Mount Hood
I dunno man... Hub high powder? I just don't know if there is a reasonable solution to that. We all have laboriously plowed through 6 inches and the skinny tire fat tire thing has its merits. Barely. There's just so many kinds of snow! Sometime google eskimo/snow/words... They have as many words for snow types as we do for ways to insult other people's politics.
By reasonable, I mean one tire that handles it all and I just don't think there's a tire that will allow you to plow through even fluffy, light, cold, fresh powder when there's 12" plus of it. Personally I like a 2" or more tire with a pavement bead and side studs. Lower the pressure on the really bad days when you have to ride in car crud to help you float over that greasy packed chemical snow and the studs will be there when you hit pavement and black ice. But short of having legs like a Percheron horse in the prime of life, I don't see how you are going to power through snow that deep. In the UP? Can you get a friend to run a snowmobile over the worst parts of your route where legal? When that freezes it's quite ridable. Man, where's the city when you need them to plow the trails? Good luck!
By reasonable, I mean one tire that handles it all and I just don't think there's a tire that will allow you to plow through even fluffy, light, cold, fresh powder when there's 12" plus of it. Personally I like a 2" or more tire with a pavement bead and side studs. Lower the pressure on the really bad days when you have to ride in car crud to help you float over that greasy packed chemical snow and the studs will be there when you hit pavement and black ice. But short of having legs like a Percheron horse in the prime of life, I don't see how you are going to power through snow that deep. In the UP? Can you get a friend to run a snowmobile over the worst parts of your route where legal? When that freezes it's quite ridable. Man, where's the city when you need them to plow the trails? Good luck!
#6
Even if skinny tires can cut through it, I'd be exhausted in short order. With snow that deep you're not just pushing your tires through, but your pedals as well. Plus you're dragging your chain and your derailleur (if so equipped) through it.
There's people in Hawaii that ride with surf boards attached to their bikes. There must be a way to carry skis, poles and a set of snow shoes. Ride as far as you can and then strap the skis on.
#7
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: Bemidji, MN
Bikes: Surly LHT
Hey, thanks to all for your replies.
I always thought the K-trak looked really cool too, and I'd love to own a Pugsley. I drool over the pictures.
I kind of thought this might be one of those problems that wouldn't be easy to solve. I'm not exactly a winter novice anymore either. Traverse City is a really small one, and one centered around the car as the primary transport- there aren't any East-West roads that connect or go all the way through town except the U.S. Highway. Our local cycling club puts out a cycling map for the area, and it's marked in red. I agree with their assessment. I've ridden on it before, and it's never a pleasant experience. The MUP is an excellent alternative, but like many parts of the country the city just doesn't have the budget to keep it clear in the winter time. Maybe I'll just get my own snowblower out and clear the parts that I use. I love riding too much to accept defeat, and I hate indoor trainers.
I always thought the K-trak looked really cool too, and I'd love to own a Pugsley. I drool over the pictures.
I kind of thought this might be one of those problems that wouldn't be easy to solve. I'm not exactly a winter novice anymore either. Traverse City is a really small one, and one centered around the car as the primary transport- there aren't any East-West roads that connect or go all the way through town except the U.S. Highway. Our local cycling club puts out a cycling map for the area, and it's marked in red. I agree with their assessment. I've ridden on it before, and it's never a pleasant experience. The MUP is an excellent alternative, but like many parts of the country the city just doesn't have the budget to keep it clear in the winter time. Maybe I'll just get my own snowblower out and clear the parts that I use. I love riding too much to accept defeat, and I hate indoor trainers.
#8
Anarchy by Bike
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton....Burrrrrrrrr
Bikes: 2006 Norco Mountaineer
That is an extremely important fact many people don't do. The municipality is not the enemy, you are a stakeholder so let them know what you want. I'm not even in a very bike friendly city and my MUPs are plowed AND sanded frequently (ie by morning the day after it snows, sometimes quicker). That was the result of cyclists creating good relationships with the city years before I came. To any of you that were involved, thanks so much!
#9
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,257
Likes: 5
From: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
Well, here are two extreme strategies. Each has their proponents.
The first is to use very narrow tires. Think 700x23 racing or 700x30 cyclocross. The narrower the tire, the less snow it has to cut through. Slippery, yes, but since you're plowing way less snow, the effort needed to go forward is much lower. Now, this only works if the tire can bottom out on a hard surface, for example a road. If you have a foot of powder on top of a hard road, then narrow tires would work best.
Now, the other extreme is to use very wide tires. Think 3.7" wide with special extra-wide rims. Then, you can run very low tire pressures, and you won't sink nearly as much. Of course, when it comes to deep powder, even those tires won't be able to float. When the snow gets more compact they'd work well, but if you have a foot of fluffy powder on top, you'll end up having to plow 3.7" of it away.
And then there are even more extreme solutions, like the K-trak

Of course, the K-trak has serious downsides, like the cost, the inability to go on roads, and the very slow speed unless you're going downhill.
In some terrain, the bike just isn't the right solution.
Snowshoes or skis may be more appropriate if you won't go on the road.
Roads, as poorly plowed as they may be, can certainly be crossed by bikes in the winter. MUPs covered by deep snow, that's another story...
The first is to use very narrow tires. Think 700x23 racing or 700x30 cyclocross. The narrower the tire, the less snow it has to cut through. Slippery, yes, but since you're plowing way less snow, the effort needed to go forward is much lower. Now, this only works if the tire can bottom out on a hard surface, for example a road. If you have a foot of powder on top of a hard road, then narrow tires would work best.
Now, the other extreme is to use very wide tires. Think 3.7" wide with special extra-wide rims. Then, you can run very low tire pressures, and you won't sink nearly as much. Of course, when it comes to deep powder, even those tires won't be able to float. When the snow gets more compact they'd work well, but if you have a foot of fluffy powder on top, you'll end up having to plow 3.7" of it away.
And then there are even more extreme solutions, like the K-trak
Of course, the K-trak has serious downsides, like the cost, the inability to go on roads, and the very slow speed unless you're going downhill.
In some terrain, the bike just isn't the right solution.
Snowshoes or skis may be more appropriate if you won't go on the road.
Roads, as poorly plowed as they may be, can certainly be crossed by bikes in the winter. MUPs covered by deep snow, that's another story...
All you do is cut down to the bottom, which is rock solid rutted ice from the previous snow that didn't quite get to melt away or get plowed in time.
you can go forwards in deep powder with narrows, but the work load is something like 20x that of studded on a ploughed road.
26x34 is a medium gear in that kind of situation.
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Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
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