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  1. #26
    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    Sucks man. Heal up fast.
    Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kansas Don View Post
    Tight corner everybody was pushed too wide, outside guy had to cut across you to keep from hitting those parking blocks coming up. I'd still look him up and dot his eye though, it was a bad place to try to pass.

    What's a guy to do though, if you ride your going to have crashes.

    Don
    The other guy did not HAVE to cut across. He could have waited to attack after the corner. He was riding like an idiot and apparently needs to learn to corner. It didn't look deliberate but it was definitely an unsafe move especially for someone that looks like they're an inexperienced bike handler.
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  3. #28
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    Sorry, heal well and do not rush back. Had a friend who felt great and wound up backing out the screws because he started back too hard.

    Clicked almost frame by frame and looked like a fairly good closure/pass with some arm/body contact pushing bars left then reaction and going down. Lead rider did a heck of a job saving himself and pulling away. Inside rider held inside line without coming out even though painted lines were in his path.

  4. #29
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kansas Don View Post
    Tight corner everybody was pushed too wide, outside guy had to cut across you to keep from hitting those parking blocks coming up. I'd still look him up and dot his eye though, it was a bad place to try to pass.

    What's a guy to do though, if you ride your going to have crashes.

    Don
    That was not a tight corner and the only reason that guy came anywhere near those barriers was because he straightened out and looked back after causing the crash.

  5. #30
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    . Outside rider is also on the hoods, which may be part of the reason why he's not comfortable cornering hard. Without as much weight up front the front end feels skittish so riders tend to get scared. That means pulling back away from the front end (making the problem worse) as well as leaning the body more instead of leaning the bike more.

    Oloveg, you're not on your, may be a bit more vulnerable. For me I'm way more vulnerable if I'm on my hoods and I'm shorter (so hoods are better for planned contact). Taller people will be more vulnerable when on the hoods because the drops are exposed to a hit from a shorter rider, or one to the outside when leaned over in a turn. Shorter people like me tend to need to be on the hoods for bump drills etc.

    Looked at the video again, and in the entire clip only one rider is in the drops.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  6. #31
    Banana Pancakes furiousferret's Avatar
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    What it boils down to is making a pass on a corner is a risky move. You have to make an assumption of what line the rider you are passing is going to make, and in this case the passer went too far in and ovo went slightly out. It seems like he just went in too fast and was worried about making the turn and not other riders.

  7. #32
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
    The other guy did not HAVE to cut across. He could have waited to attack after the corner. He was riding like an idiot and apparently needs to learn to corner. It didn't look deliberate but it was definitely an unsafe move especially for someone that looks like they're an inexperienced bike handler.
    Nothing wrong with where he attacked. Going right before and into a curve can be a great place to attack, particularly the last turn of a crit.

    And he had plenty of room here. He could have easily gone around that curve even faster without chopping Ovoleg's line. His contribution to the crash was not passing; it was cutting into the line Ovoleg was on before he was past him.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  8. #33
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    ovoleg - Bummer! Best wishes for a quick and full recovery - like others have said, don't be a dumbass and push it faster than you need to. The races will be there when you're healed.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
    Can you elaborate on the leaning body more then the bike part? Yes it closes the gap, but is there more to your statement as it relates to BP.
    BP?

    I find myself leaning the bike more when I am scared or panicking. It's usually in low traction situations, like rain or dirt. To feel more secure, to have more confidence in the front end of the bike, I need to have a lot of weight up front. That means a longer stem, so that my hands are further forward, it means sliding forward on the saddle a bit, it means being on the drops instead of the hoods, and it means being confident in my tires.

    When I see a rider that's leaning their body much more than their bike (and they're not a downhill mtb guy at the absolute limit) it's usually because they're not comfortable cornering, at least in that particular situation.

    Some warning signs I look for:
    - Hands on hoods, which means compromised control, especially if you hit a bump or another rider. Riders will crash on their own because being on the hoods let their hands slip over the top of the lever. The Junior in town, who I learned has 5 national titles to his name, crashed once when he was on the hoods and the guy in front hit the deck. He couldn't slow, he couldn't steer, and he broke his collarbone. Later that year he won both the cross and crit titles so it didn't affect him that much but he didn't have to fall. He's a great bike handler who was too relaxed in that particular race.
    - Unweighting the saddle to push the bike forward a bit. Unweighting the saddle makes the rear wheel lose its solid footing, making the back end bounce around a bit, which is the last thing you want when you're cornering hard.
    - Hands at the end of the drops. Can't reach the levers, you might as well be cornering on the tops.
    - Stiff upper body, typically due to nervousness, not great if they get bumped.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Looked at the video again, and in the entire clip only one rider is in the drops.
    It's terrible. It's one of the things that I wish people were more aware of in terms of racing technique. The benefits of riding on the drops when the crap hits the fan is huge, and in a race you never know when that'll happen.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  11. #36
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    Welcome to the club - here is mine from November 30, 2013, before and after pinning. Mine was very displaced.

    Busted Hip.JPG12.17.13 - 2.jpg

    I liked reading about other people's recovery so here is mine if you are interested. In a crash in a 4/5 crit with several other people who went down right in front of me. The guy in front of me going through a corner went hard into my front wheel when someone in front of him went down and I high-sided and came straight down hard. I slid so little I barely had any road rash. Surgery the same day for the pinning and went home from the hospital the next evening. I was on crutches and under doctor's direction for no, none, zero weight bearing for 11 weeks then 2 more weeks of crutches going from 25% weight bearing to 50% weight bearing.

    The same day I was released by the doctor for full weight-bearing I did a little 30-40 spin on the trainer just to see how it felt - getting my leg over the bike was the hardest part. Second day I did an FTP test (the one with two 8 minute intervals times .9) and based on that was about 50 watts short of where I was before the break. Just did another FTP test on the trainer a couple of days ago (this time the full 20 minute interval times .95) and had gained about 35 watts.

    I just started not getting dropped and hanging on for dear life on fast group rides that I used to take pulls off the front on. The hills are the hardest part due to the lack of strength in my right leg and I was getting dropped pretty easy even on little inclines but am holding on now at the back of the pack. I still have pain in the muscle, but not in the hip joint. I'm at high risk for AVN due to the displacement of the original break, but that won't be detectible for several more months.

    I don't know how much, if any of that, translate to your recovery but maybe it will give you some frame of reference.

  12. #37
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    BP?

    I find myself leaning the bike more when I am scared or panicking. It's usually in low traction situations, like rain or dirt. To feel more secure, to have more confidence in the front end of the bike, I need to have a lot of weight up front. That means a longer stem, so that my hands are further forward, it means sliding forward on the saddle a bit, it means being on the drops instead of the hoods, and it means being confident in my tires.

    When I see a rider that's leaning their body much more than their bike (and they're not a downhill mtb guy at the absolute limit) it's usually because they're not comfortable cornering, at least in that particular situation.

    Some warning signs I look for:
    - Hands on hoods, which means compromised control, especially if you hit a bump or another rider. Riders will crash on their own because being on the hoods let their hands slip over the top of the lever. The Junior in town, who I learned has 5 national titles to his name, crashed once when he was on the hoods and the guy in front hit the deck. He couldn't slow, he couldn't steer, and he broke his collarbone. Later that year he won both the cross and crit titles so it didn't affect him that much but he didn't have to fall. He's a great bike handler who was too relaxed in that particular race.
    - Unweighting the saddle to push the bike forward a bit. Unweighting the saddle makes the rear wheel lose its solid footing, making the back end bounce around a bit, which is the last thing you want when you're cornering hard.
    - Hands at the end of the drops. Can't reach the levers, you might as well be cornering on the tops.
    - Stiff upper body, typically due to nervousness, not great if they get bumped.
    BP == Body Position

    I see your point. When done correctly it does lower CG which allows for bike to stay more upright for the same speed and radius of a turn. Which is advantageous in low(er) traction citations, or allows one to take corner faster.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
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  13. #38
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    yikes, sorry to hear of this.

    speedy recovery!

  14. #39
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    sorry--didn't read the whole thread and didn't really even want to click on it (nothing personal, ovoleg, but it is one thing to read about a crash and another to maybe see pics & video....i don't love having that imagery in my head as i race).

    i sure am sorry for what happened to you. "that's racing" offers little comfort in these situations. allow yourself to feel whatever you want to feel now...anger, sorrow, anything. sounds like you have an inner optimist in there. i bet we will see a better version of you back at some point.

    i trot this out every time there is an injury, but every single time i've had an injury in life -- every. single. time. -- i have come back WAY stronger. i think if one views an injury as an opportunity to work on all the things that were neglected when we were just comfortably plodding along.

  15. #40
    Senior Member agoodale's Avatar
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    I know that turn well. It's a bad place to attempt an outside pass since it's a decreasing radius turn (i think that's the right term). see here:
    ElDorado.PNG

    Although Ovoleg is drifting wide, and maybe going a bit too fast, he would have made the turn.

    Did the rider appearing on the outside at the last minute shock you? It appears like you get stood up before he makes contact. Maybe you touched the brakes? Or, maybe he came around you, bumped, and then he touched the brakes when he realized he was going too fast.

    Either way, heal up, and I hope we'll see you out there again soon.

  16. #41
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    Sucks to hear ovoleg, i hope you have a speedy and full recovery!

  17. #42
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
    but it is one thing to read about a crash and another to maybe see pics & video....i don't love having that imagery in my head as i race
    Says the guy who posted graphic surgery imagery to FB!! =]

  18. #43
    Senior Member Breal's Avatar
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    Get well soon, not sure if I was you I could watch that video. Come back strong!!
    Frequently Read, Seldomly Post

  19. #44
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjclint View Post
    Welcome to the club - here is mine from November 30, 2013, before and after pinning. Mine was very displaced.

    Busted Hip.JPG12.17.13 - 2.jpg

    I liked reading about other people's recovery so here is mine if you are interested. In a crash in a 4/5 crit with several other people who went down right in front of me. The guy in front of me going through a corner went hard into my front wheel when someone in front of him went down and I high-sided and came straight down hard. I slid so little I barely had any road rash. Surgery the same day for the pinning and went home from the hospital the next evening. I was on crutches and under doctor's direction for no, none, zero weight bearing for 11 weeks then 2 more weeks of crutches going from 25% weight bearing to 50% weight bearing.

    The same day I was released by the doctor for full weight-bearing I did a little 30-40 spin on the trainer just to see how it felt - getting my leg over the bike was the hardest part. Second day I did an FTP test (the one with two 8 minute intervals times .9) and based on that was about 50 watts short of where I was before the break. Just did another FTP test on the trainer a couple of days ago (this time the full 20 minute interval times .95) and had gained about 35 watts.

    I just started not getting dropped and hanging on for dear life on fast group rides that I used to take pulls off the front on. The hills are the hardest part due to the lack of strength in my right leg and I was getting dropped pretty easy even on little inclines but am holding on now at the back of the pack. I still have pain in the muscle, but not in the hip joint. I'm at high risk for AVN due to the displacement of the original break, but that won't be detectible for several more months.

    I don't know how much, if any of that, translate to your recovery but maybe it will give you some frame of reference.
    Mine wasn't displaced according to the docs so I hope it stays that way, still very nervous about it.

    I'm going to take it super easy like they recommend. They told me 6 weeks no weight bearing so I'm going to stick to that. Sorry to hear about your accident too.

    Thanks for the wishes guys. I hope it all goes well and I don't need anymore surgeries related to this injury
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    . I asked them if I need to take them out later and they said they weren't sure but will need to evaluate that in the future, right now I need the fracture to heal. I guess I should be glad I didn't get more hardware in the leg
    When it heals, don't worry about the screws -- you won't notice them. I have a steel plate the full length of my right thigh with numerous screws, courtesy of a run-in with a truck almost 30 years ago. Even that doesn't bother me and I ride every day.

  21. #46
    Senior Member rideaz's Avatar
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    So sorry! Take care and heal up fast!

  22. #47
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    looking at the pre and post-op xray, how was there any doubt that it was broken? wtf.

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  23. #48
    Arrogant Roadie Punk save10's Avatar
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    ^^^i think you are confusing clint's xrays with ovo's (get well soon).

  24. #49
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by save10 View Post
    ^^^i think you are confusing clint's xrays with ovo's (get well soon).
    I am, you're right!

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  25. #50
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Ovo, get well soon and heal well man. I enjoy reading your posts...well, most if the times.
    My current stable:

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