Is there widespread hatred of cyclists?
#101
Banned
How do we balance capturing accurate and valuable evidence with the loss of privacy that "cameras everywhere" will bring about? If we ask citizens whether all actions in public areas should be captured on film, I would hope they would say "no".
The motivation of a cyclist for wearing a helmet-cam is really irrelevant. Whether it's being done to document a case where they might be injured by a reckless driver or whether they are doing it to be a vigilante shouldn't matter. The real issue to consider is whether the benefits of "cameras everywhere" outweigh the risks.
It's easy to argue that we shouldn't be afraid of obtaining the best available evidence by mounting cameras on helmets, on buildings, in cars, on traffic signals, on telephone poles and ... everywhere. But ... "big brother is watching you" isn't just a cliche.
This is a serious issue that frankly is not being addressed in our society. Many cite all the recent shootings by police as justification for increased video surveillance. Clearly, there are times having a public eye to witness events can be a huge benefit. It could also be a slippery slope to tyranny.
The motivation of a cyclist for wearing a helmet-cam is really irrelevant. Whether it's being done to document a case where they might be injured by a reckless driver or whether they are doing it to be a vigilante shouldn't matter. The real issue to consider is whether the benefits of "cameras everywhere" outweigh the risks.
It's easy to argue that we shouldn't be afraid of obtaining the best available evidence by mounting cameras on helmets, on buildings, in cars, on traffic signals, on telephone poles and ... everywhere. But ... "big brother is watching you" isn't just a cliche.
This is a serious issue that frankly is not being addressed in our society. Many cite all the recent shootings by police as justification for increased video surveillance. Clearly, there are times having a public eye to witness events can be a huge benefit. It could also be a slippery slope to tyranny.
#102
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
Reporting an inappropriate act of a law enforcement official through the appropriate channels, and posting a video of ones awkward and failed attempt to personally correct an inappropriate act are two very different things.
#103
Just a person on bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,140
Bikes: 2015 Trek 1.1, 2021 Specialized Roubaix, 2022 Tern HSD S+
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times
in
56 Posts
They may be very different, but they are both legitimate, in my opinion. The latter is perfectly legal, too.
__________________
The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
#104
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
#105
Just a person on bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,140
Bikes: 2015 Trek 1.1, 2021 Specialized Roubaix, 2022 Tern HSD S+
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times
in
56 Posts
It is your choice. I try to do it as much as I can.
__________________
The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
#106
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
Ok, but which way would you handle the situation in question? Confront the cops directly with a video camera running, or report it to the appropriate authorities.
Personally I wouldn't choose the public shame option, especially against private citizens. There's no control over how someone may chose to use the information.
Personally I wouldn't choose the public shame option, especially against private citizens. There's no control over how someone may chose to use the information.
#107
Just a person on bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,140
Bikes: 2015 Trek 1.1, 2021 Specialized Roubaix, 2022 Tern HSD S+
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times
in
56 Posts
I would *like* to discuss it directly with the police officer involved if I was in that situation, especially since I'd be able to collect evidence. I'm not "confrontational" by nature, though, so I may not be able to do it in practice.
__________________
The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
#108
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: D'uh... I am a Cutter
Posts: 6,139
Bikes: '17 Access Old Turnpike Gravel bike, '14 Trek 1.1, '13 Cannondale CAAD 10, '98 CAD 2, R300
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1571 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times
in
9 Posts
I, you, anyone.... could make a long list of things that NO girlfriend, wife, mother, parent, child, friend, employer, or neighbor would find morally acceptable. Yet they would meet your criteria of perfectly legal and not against the law. So... are you saying socially acceptable is NOT a worthwhile goal?
Being creepy is legal. Stalking is legal... to a point. But we should help those can't tell when their behavior has drifted into that gray area.
#109
Just a person on bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,140
Bikes: 2015 Trek 1.1, 2021 Specialized Roubaix, 2022 Tern HSD S+
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times
in
56 Posts
I, you, anyone.... could make a long list of things that NO girlfriend, wife, mother, parent, child, friend, employer, or neighbor would find morally acceptable. Yet they would meet your criteria of perfectly legal and not against the law. So... are you saying socially acceptable is NOT a worthwhile goal?
__________________
The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
#111
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
I just saw a Sears optical commercial showing a father fixing up an old bicycle for his daughter. An advertising agencies bread and butter is knowing what puts a product in a positive light. That's not indicative of widespread hate.
#112
Banned
Sure, like the general motoring public are going to view a commercial of a little girl riding her bicycle on a quiet back street the same way as a grown man actually riding his bicycle in urban traffic rush hour.
Last edited by dynodonn; 04-26-15 at 10:42 PM.
#113
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
Haters gotta hate............
#116
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: LaPorte, IN
Posts: 625
Bikes: 2013 Raleigh Revenio 2015 Giant AnyRoad (stolen)2016 Giant Escape 1
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#117
Senior Member
According to the run in I had with a club kid in a bashed up HEMI the other day, everyone does indeed "hate you people".
Another thing I learned yesterday from him was the following:
1) I am not a car (give that guy a membership in Mensa!)
2) All people on bikes are hipsters
3) If you want to ride a bike, go to Portland
4) Instead of signalling that you plan to go left around someone opening their car door into the bike lane - you should instead either get on the sidewalk or ride directly into their door.
5) It is ok to speed around a couple of cyclists at 65 on a 30 residential mph road to pull to an illegal stop in the bike lane and prepare to teach them a lesson
If you are a Phoenix, AZ area resident, look for that man to show up soon at a DUI checkpoint or safe driving course near you!
Another thing I learned yesterday from him was the following:
1) I am not a car (give that guy a membership in Mensa!)
2) All people on bikes are hipsters
3) If you want to ride a bike, go to Portland
4) Instead of signalling that you plan to go left around someone opening their car door into the bike lane - you should instead either get on the sidewalk or ride directly into their door.
5) It is ok to speed around a couple of cyclists at 65 on a 30 residential mph road to pull to an illegal stop in the bike lane and prepare to teach them a lesson
If you are a Phoenix, AZ area resident, look for that man to show up soon at a DUI checkpoint or safe driving course near you!
#118
Full Member
80% of the motorists I encounter are very respectful of my rights on the road.
19% are a little too careless
1% really seem to hate cyclists and actively present an impediment to my safety.
19% are a little too careless
1% really seem to hate cyclists and actively present an impediment to my safety.
#119
Full Member
There's another thread on this forum now about a second cyclist killed in Vermont over the last 10 days. In both cases, the crimes were not really cycling related in that the drivers were reckless (one was drunk) and likely didn't even see the cyclist until the last seconds, if at all. The latest victim was run down from behind after a young driver came around a curve much too fast and overcorrected ,ran over the bicyclist and then off the road killing himself. The first death was so sad. A couple on a late day ride on a very rural road and a car coming the opposite way over a slight hill on the wrong side of the double yellow. The husband was killed. Both events were tragic, but really could easily have involved pedestrians or other drivers rather than bike riders. In no way were the cyclists violating any rules of the road.
Here's were the cycling hate comes in. I work with and around some long time Vermonters, and with blue collar working people and their children. When discussing these incidents, every one of them began to talk about those cyclists who take over the roads etc. They couldn't even see that these were purely innocent deaths. It was always "yeah the driver was a jerk, but man those cyclists can be so irritating." WHAT????
I'm beginning to realize that this is a cultural divide.
Here's were the cycling hate comes in. I work with and around some long time Vermonters, and with blue collar working people and their children. When discussing these incidents, every one of them began to talk about those cyclists who take over the roads etc. They couldn't even see that these were purely innocent deaths. It was always "yeah the driver was a jerk, but man those cyclists can be so irritating." WHAT????
I'm beginning to realize that this is a cultural divide.
#120
24-Speed Machine
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Posts: 6,058
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
There's another thread on this forum now about a second cyclist killed in Vermont over the last 10 days. In both cases, the crimes were not really cycling related in that the drivers were reckless (one was drunk) and likely didn't even see the cyclist until the last seconds, if at all. The latest victim was run down from behind after a young driver came around a curve much too fast and overcorrected ,ran over the bicyclist and then off the road killing himself. The first death was so sad. A couple on a late day ride on a very rural road and a car coming the opposite way over a slight hill on the wrong side of the double yellow. The husband was killed. Both events were tragic, but really could easily have involved pedestrians or other drivers rather than bike riders. In no way were the cyclists violating any rules of the road.
Here's were the cycling hate comes in. I work with and around some long time Vermonters, and with blue collar working people and their children. When discussing these incidents, every one of them began to talk about those cyclists who take over the roads etc. They couldn't even see that these were purely innocent deaths. It was always "yeah the driver was a jerk, but man those cyclists can be so irritating." WHAT????
I'm beginning to realize that this is a cultural divide.
Here's were the cycling hate comes in. I work with and around some long time Vermonters, and with blue collar working people and their children. When discussing these incidents, every one of them began to talk about those cyclists who take over the roads etc. They couldn't even see that these were purely innocent deaths. It was always "yeah the driver was a jerk, but man those cyclists can be so irritating." WHAT????
I'm beginning to realize that this is a cultural divide.
Motorists' try to pass me before the hill, even though I am going 25mph on a 30mph.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Alfster
Eastern Canada
15
05-21-13 12:14 AM